The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Leaf wrote: hmmm...Brook's and Dunn's ultra-classic Rock My world....little country:

Internal feminine rhymes are acceptable. Hostess Mostess will pardon Brooks and Dunn.

Needless to say, dumb words do not doom a song. Right now, my favorite song is Cookie Monster's "Food": What we call things that we eat? Food. /Potatoes, veggies and meat. Food. And yes, I believe the children are our future.

Leaf wrote: I dunno, am I more Brooks, or Dunn?

Dunn-o.

I'm with you on the "ho" and "muthafucka." I like to use "hell" and to use "God" as an exclamation, but it's kind of cheap: swearing in lyrics sounds like you're just trying to get people to listen to you, which would be more effectively accomplished by writing something interesting.

jb wrote:

j$ wrote:who are we to say that someone can't use a word?

Please investigate the difference between "should never" and "can't ever".

nuance.

Who are we to say that someone shouldn't use a word?

Happy now?

I will however downgrade 'Irony is evil' to 'Irony is for cowards. Misuse of irony as self-defence is evil.'

shoe
megaphone
grunties
wankel rotary engine
...

(note to jb [see below] sorry, i've emphasised the ellipsis, now maybe it will make more sense.)

HeuristicsInc wrote: they did have some very dumb stuff, but also some brilliant stuff.
and creative commons was to some extent inspired/guided by them, so that's pretty cool.

I had some Berkeley audio-tech friends who often called in to Negativland's late-night free-for-all radio show to add to their rolling musical collage. Pretty darned progressive, and very, very interesting. Of course dumb stuff happened, but dumb stuff always falls out when you let process drive content (unless you can create a process that only generates beauty; but that's the stuff of genius).

If you're willing to use any word (J$: Do you honestly consider using any word, no matter its connotation or classification, in your lyrics? I don't believe you're thinking deeply about the question.), you have no coherent style. If you have no coherent style, you will not be understood.

oh, i disagree with "shoe" there tv.

but i will add: "vulva"

and Johnny-- who are we to say ANYTHING? arguments like that are a pet peeve of mine. don't bother discussing anything because nobody has any right to an opinion because that implies that we're trying to force someone else to agree? gimme a break. if it bothers you to think we're trying to enforce some definitive list of words, think of it like "what words make you cringe when you hear them in a song" or some other wording that doesn't push your knee-jerk anti-fascism button. Some people can't recognize others' right to an opinion if it's not preceded by "IMHO" or "IMO" or "I THINK" or "This is just my opinion and I don't really know anything". Gah. GAH.

[edit]tv: oh. i still don't get it, but i recognize it as a joke now, so...uh...ok[/edit]

jb wrote:oh, i disagree with "shoe" there tv.

Someone forgot to follow the link (Update: link has now been made more salient). "Noises are a major embarrassment source. Even words like 'tits', 'winkle' and 'vibraphone' can not rival the embarrassment potential of sound." Now that's that genius I was talking about...

And you're right about that line of argument being facile. If he keeps it up, you can threaten to rename the thread something about libertarianism and file it under "Politics and other crap." Modern Nevada.

Agree @ JB.

The best thing about message boards is that every post has <opinion>...</opinion> tags around it. If I say "People shouldn't use the word 'skolemize' in a song", read it as

<center><opinion="Puce">People shouldn't use the word 'skolemize' in a song</opinion></center>
Oh yeah, never use the word skolemize in a song (it's a math term)

If you write a song using a word from any of these lists, it's a bad idea.

others wrote:OMG A BAD IDEA ACCORDING TO WHO

If you write a song using a word from any of these lists, it's a bad idea according to the people who made these lists.

basically, it boils down to this. people express an opinion that other people shouldn't do _________.
if you have a problem with it, don't pay any attention to their opinion.

but this is just flawed logic...
"you shouldn't do _______."
"well you can't tell me not to __________."

because they have just as much right to tell you not to as you have to disregard what they say. conversely, you have no more right to tell people not to tell you what to do than they have to tell you what to do in the first place.

I'm pretty sure i'd add "album" to the list.
And "squick".
"pluralize" is dubious as well.
"oligarchy" is under suspicious too.

tviyh wrote:because they have just as much right to tell you not to as you have to disregard what they say. conversely, you have no more right to tell people not to tell you what not to tell others not to do than they do not have to not tell you what not to do in the first place.

AHHHHH!

Also don't use the words Spackle, Mantastic or Porngasm.


EDIT: Also add "Mangasm", "Porntastic", and "Spoonerism" to the list

Mostess wrote: (J$: Do you honestly consider using any word, no matter its connotation or classification, in your lyrics? I don't believe you're thinking deeply about the question.)

Um, yeah, I do. Or at least I think I do. Obviously there are words and phrases that personally repel me. i would only use them in a certain context, and I would have problems then, but if I thought the only way I could make the lyric work was to use them, then I would.

Words are beautiful. The idea there are stupid words and non-stupid words befuddles me.

J$

j$ wrote:befuddles

i'd suggest staying away from that one too.

(also i'm predicting a johnny cashpoint entry next week comsisting solely of words from this thread)

English is such a mutt of a language. A great deal of the words are ugly beyond belief.

Gulch

jb wrote: wording that doesn't push your knee-jerk anti-fascism button. Some people can't recognize others' right to an opinion if it's not preceded by "IMHO" or "IMO" or "I THINK" or "This is just my opinion and I don't really know anything". Gah. GAH.

I don't disagree with you there, which I apperciate might sound strange. It's probably a failure on my part vis a vee (sp) tone but I didn't really intend for my comment to be taken as some lame-ass attempt to kill the thread. Just a tangential sub-plot, I guess.

In other words, I want to read the thread as it progresses, but I want to express my own reaction at it. There was no finger-wagging or voter-hectoring intended, at least not intentionally.

Though I will admit, in a placid, gentle way, I wanted to stress that Mostess' comment about 'people who write 'no word is bad' are being ironic' was wrong, in my case at least.

j$

15-16 puzzle wrote:English is such a mutt of a language. A great deal of the words are ugly beyond belief.

Some foreign languages sound like a delicate song; others sound like a gently babbling brook.

English [EDIT: and German] sounds like someone mashing a mouldy pumpkin with a plunger.

j$ wrote: Words are beautiful. The idea there are stupid words and non-stupid words befuddles me.

I see your point. Especially a word like "gulch" which is ugly in one sense and beautiful in another.

I don't doubt that any of us would use a word if it was the best word for the lyric. It's impossible to list all the possible songwriting situations, so it's also impossible to make a complete list of words which are the best solution to none of those situations. But I have an intuition that there is such a set of words. I'd probably be as surprised as anyone about what words are in that set.

But I bet the set includes: "uber-mensch," "palliative," "amicability," and "Xerox."

I personally like the sound of English! Especially with an accent (that is different from mine of course!) ...English can be very sexy....



Although, another word that makes me cringe is "oops".... but only in one particular song....


If this list get's big enough, we could have an optional challenge to only use the words listed here, or like 80% or something...could be amusing.

Mostess wrote:

Leaf wrote: hmmm...Brook's and Dunn's ultra-classic Rock My world....little country:

Internal feminine rhymes are acceptable. Hostess Mostess will pardon Brooks and Dunn.

Leaf wrote: I dunno, am I more Brooks, or Dunn?

Dunn-o.

I'm with you on the "ho" and "muthafucka." I like to use "hell" and to use "God" as an exclamation, but it's kind of cheap: swearing in lyrics sounds like you're just trying to get people to listen to you, which would be more effectively accomplished by writing something interesting.

She looks like Madonna but she listens to Merle...

Love me some Brooks & Dunn

AND, yeah, I don't like to swear in my songs. I agree, it's usually just trite. As a matter of fact I have done it to be trite. However, I rarely do it.

I'll through some cursing in, if it 's really what I'm feeling. I got a potty mouth anyway, but cursing for "street cred" or what ever is just silly pandering. And Boring.

In a serious song, sometimes "fuck" is the only word that'll suffice.
In a funny song, all bets are off.