The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Reïst wrote:It's 89.98 with the shock mount, and looks cool.

Yup, he knows for sure.

Just so the question doesn't get lost in the funny thread ... I'm going to repost it on this page.

Steve Durand wrote:

Reïst wrote: 2. B1s and all cheap Behringers suck.

Don't confuse the Studio Projects B1 with the Behringer B1.

Oops. For some reason I had them fused as one in my brain. I've checked around a bit online, and they both seem to be quite favorably reviewed. Would you recommend the Studio Projects B1 over the Behringer B1?

Caravan Ray wrote:

jb wrote: I don't trust music store dudes at all one little bit.

No. Simply having a black T-shirt, body odour, long, greasy hair and 6 inches of visible arse-crack* does necessarily qualify someone to distribute technical advice.

That's exactly what the keyboard guy at Axe looks like. The guy giving me advice was bald though. Something's up.

Oops. For some reason I had them fused as one in my brain.

Reïst wrote: Oops. For some reason I had them fused as one in my brain. I've checked around a bit online, and they both seem to be quite favorably reviewed. Would you recommend the Studio Projects B1 over the Behringer B1?

I've never used the Behringer so I really couldn't say. But Ross, Ken, and I all have direct experience with the Studio Projects mic and we all like it. Plus we all have our music out there for you to listen to so you can judge if it sounds like it is well recorded.

Of course the best thing would be for you to try them out yourself.

Steve Durand wrote:Of course the best thing would be for you to try them out yourself.

Is that possible without buying them?

Again, I can't stress the importance of at least trying an SM58. Shure got it right like 40 years ago, and thousands of recording artists can't be wrong. With a 58, you can scream like a maniac, and it will sound good. I guarantee it. If you want to do softer, folksy, emotional vox, get a condenser. (you can do this stuff on a 58 too, just crank up the preamp gain)

Reïst wrote:

Steve Durand wrote:Of course the best thing would be for you to try them out yourself.

Is that possible without buying them?

I don't really know of any way to do that. If you lived near me I'd be glad to let you borrow mine.

I have the Behringer B1 and I don't care for it for vocals. Of course, that's just me for the type of vocals that I do and my recording environment. But it does make for a great room mic, where my SM58 does not.
By the way Steve, thanks for pointing out that there are two different B1 mics. All of this time when people were talking about how much they like their B1, I thought they were talking about the one I have. I was starting to think that mine was a dud made by drunk monkeys on a Friday afternoon.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:drunk monkeys on a Friday afternoon.

Can that be the title for round 4 of Nur Ein? Or better yet, can we find a way to make it the non-optional challenge?

Reïst wrote:Is that possible without buying them?

You could probably rent one from Long + McQuade for really cheap. I know you could rent a SM58 from there for a couple bucks for the weekend. I don't know about renting the others.

Smalltown Mike wrote:

Reïst wrote:Is that possible without buying them?

You could probably rent one from Long + McQuade for really cheap. I know you could rent a SM58 from there for a couple bucks for the weekend. I don't know about renting the others.

That sounds like it could be a good plan.

But from the sounds of it - if I want a dynamic, I should do the SM58. If I want a condenser, the Studio Projects B1 could be awesome, but there's probably more shopping around to do. Maybe today I'll stop by L&M to ask which ones they have - I hate to ask the store guys, but I think I trust them a bit more than you guys do (and the L&M guys are less sketchy than the Axe guys)

Reïst wrote: But from the sounds of it - if I want a dynamic, I should do the SM58.

The SM58 is certainly a decent mic (I have one myself) but I wouldn't dismiss the others out-of-hand. For a start, if you like the SM58, you really want to take a look at the Shure Beta 58, which is like the SM58's big brother.

Wow this has dragged on. Here is your prescription.

1. Try the no-money fix first. I think it was Lunkhead who gave you directions for that. Use your existing equipment better-- position yourself to sing correctly into the microphone-- six inches away or less with appropriate gain adjustments to avoid clipping. Take your resulting vocal track and normalize it, then apply EQ (your software may have a generic setting that will improve the sound without your having to know anything), then apply compression (again, look for a preset that sounds good-- try them out, one at a time).
2. If results are unsatisfactory, get an SM58. If it doesn't work for this purpose, you can use it for something else-- mic an amp, mic a guitar, play a show, etc. Do all the stuff in step 1 with the SM58.
3. If the SM58, plus the software improvements don't work, get the Studio Projects B1.

Getting a new mic can remove some of the hassle of getting a good sound, so you don't have to know so much about EQ, compression etc. HOWEVER, if you don't have a lot of money, and judging by the lengthy discussion here about which $100 microphone to buy I suspect that you in that situation, then resign yourself to study and trial and error. You can get excellent results from crappy equipment with enough trial and error.

DONE!

jb wrote:position yourself to sing correctly into the microphone-- six inches away or less with appropriate gain adjustments to avoid clipping. Take your resulting vocal track and normalize it, then apply EQ (your software may have a generic setting that will improve the sound without your having to know anything), then apply compression (again, look for a preset that sounds good-- try them out, one at a time).

Sorry to drag this out more but ... I think my problem with that advice is that I'm doing all those things (as well as I understand how to) - I'm starting to think I don't have an ear for what makes a good vocal track - I couldn't tell there was anything wrong with it (aside from the sickly sounds my cold gave it). Was the track muffly? Because I took the bass down and upped the high range. I compressed it mildly so the levels didn't jump as much. I'm just not sure what a good vocal track sounds like or how to alter mine to make it better - my ear just doesn't get it.

Well then perhaps our diagnosis is incorrect and you don't need a new microphone after all. Perhaps you need new monitors, or a set of those headphones Ross Durand just got. What are you mixing on?

You can also Isolate your vocal track and upload it to the forum (the forum supports attachments now!) for other people to play with. Maybe do a new take to get a fresh copy that you haven't messed with. That would take this stale conversation in a new direction

Hey, Reist, check this guy out- he's in Edmonton. If you have the cash, get the sm57 too...

The fact that you had a cold may have a lot to do with the issues. JB is right, too, that if you upload a raw track then we can figure out how far you can get with just post-processing, and how much you need a better signal chain.

[offtopic] JB's urban Clayton Moore avatar freaks me out. [/offtopic]

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:[offtopic] JB's urban Clayton Moore avatar freaks me out. [/offtopic]

Ha! Bingo! It was for Halloween last year. I went around all night shouting "Tau Lambda Rho!" I had a holster with two cans of Coors Light.

I'M NEVER TAKING THE MASK OFF IN PUBLIC.

jb wrote:Well then perhaps our diagnosis is incorrect and you don't need a new microphone after all. Perhaps you need new monitors, or a set of those headphones Ross Durand just got. What are you mixing on?

You can also Isolate your vocal track and upload it to the forum (the forum supports attachments now!) for other people to play with. Maybe do a new take to get a fresh copy that you haven't messed with. That would take this stale conversation in a new direction

Lunkhead wrote:The fact that you had a cold may have a lot to do with the issues. JB is right, too, that if you upload a raw track then we can figure out how far you can get with just post-processing, and how much you need a better signal chain.

Was the track for Sleepwalking bad enough for it to be used as an example? I don't feel like sending out the tracks for the other one, since I don't really like the song. If Sleepwalking's fine, I'll set up some links. Do you want links to every track in the song, or just the vocal ones?

"Sleepwalking" should be fine. Just the raw unprocessed/un-eq'd/etc. main vocal track should be enough. And according to JB you could even just attach a file to a post to the boards. (Sounds neat-o.)

So much about the song dictates the appropriate vocal processing, so I don't know what I'd do with just the solo'd vocal. If you do upload dry source tracks, I hope you upload Kick Start: I love that song, and I'll happily mix the fuck out of it (and post what I did).

Full Disclosure: I was going to ask you if I could mix this song, anyway. I have some multi-track drum tricks I want to try out, but no appropriate drum tracks of my own. I didn't ask earlier because you were still in Nur Ein.