The Song Fight Bulletin Board

melvin wrote:Mark: I like your sig.

That's interesting, but what I'd really like to know is what did you think of my song?

melvin wrote:BLT: Wow man, great recording/mix. Not totally loving the melodic content, but totally respecting the slick execution, and feeling amused by the vocal delivery. Good job.

You know, I felt the same on the final mix. I had time to work with the song before the due date, and I made some changes that don't flow as good as the original. The song finished out over 4:30 mins, so I cut out the post chorus that lets the chorus and verse transition. I'm not loving the verse vocal changes either. I should have left them as a high/low double voice harmony. But it sounded too Alice In Chains to me. But I think it did sound better. God forbid that someone tells me I'm stealing someones sound.
Thanks "Michael"

ujnhunter wrote:BMX: did it hurt to get that backwards song fight! logo tattooed on yer eye ball?

The SF logo is a reflection on your Mom's eyeball because she's looking in at Song Fight.

MC Eric B wrote:Billy's Little Trip - This song rocks. Great job.

Thanks

rogerroll wrote:Billy's Little Trip: Picked bass? Tisk, tisk. The flange on the guitar throughout is a little distracting. It rocks.

Thanks Roger. The only flange is on the intro guitar, I think.
....oh and, I am, therefore I pick.

Märk wrote:Billy's Little Trip: I'm not genre-biased against this. You should build a time machine and go back to 1992. Then move to Seattle. You'll do well! This will get a voteski from me.

You should build a time machine and go back to 1 and tell that bish not to eat the fucking apple so we can all stay naykeez.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

melvin wrote:BLT: Wow man, great recording/mix. Not totally loving the melodic content, but totally respecting the slick execution, and feeling amused by the vocal delivery. Good job.

You know, I felt the same on the final mix. I had time to work with the song before the due date, and I made some changes that don't flow as good as the original. The song finished out over 4:30 mins, so I cut out the post chorus that lets the chorus and verse transition. I'm not loving the verse vocal changes either. I should have left them as a high/low double voice harmony. But it sounded too Alice In Chains to me. But I think it did sound better. God forbid that someone tells me I'm stealing someones sound.
Thanks "Michael"

You're a real smartass.

The BLT tune rocks. Like it.

melvin wrote:Easy: This has potential. Five years of solid practice could make it great.

Well it is my second song ever and I'm only 14 so you're probably right.

EasyCollision wrote:

melvin wrote:Easy: This has potential. Five years of solid practice could make it great.

Well it is my second song ever and I'm only 14 so you're probably right.

Haha. Interesting. I started off here when I was your age (well, somesongs, anyway; this is my first SF entry). And my posts were as questionable as I noted yours to be back there. Five years of solid practice later, here I am, and I like to think I've at least improved a little bit.

My point? Don't take the terse comments personally (including mine). Keep at it. It gets fun.

rogerroll wrote:My point? Don't take the terse comments personally (including mine). Keep at it. It gets fun.

He's right. If this is only your second song, you're doing really well.

melvin wrote:

rogerroll wrote:My point? Don't take the terse comments personally (including mine). Keep at it. It gets fun.

He's right. If this is only your second song, you're doing really well.

Feel free to listen to my first few entries as evidence of this

In truth, the reviews will possibly never get less terse (unless you happen to make slick productions that are liked by a majority, something I doubt I'll ever manage) but you will be able to hear yourself improve and I've found no other site quite like this one when it comes to getting solid advise on everything from music technique to recording and production.

Kill Me Sarah wrote:

melvin wrote:

rogerroll wrote:My point? Don't take the terse comments personally (including mine). Keep at it. It gets fun.

He's right. If this is only your second song, you're doing really well.

Feel free to listen to my first few entries as evidence of this

In truth, the reviews will possibly never get less terse (unless you happen to make slick productions that are liked by a majority, something I doubt I'll ever manage) but you will be able to hear yourself improve and I've found no other site quite like this one when it comes to getting solid advise on everything from music technique to recording and production.

I'd just like to emphasize this. We (i.p.) have made 5 songs on songfight, and our first, The Sugar Shaker, got some unexpectedly disgusted reviews. Not only do the people here have a ton of experience listening to songs like yours, but many of them review all 20+ each week. This means you'll get very, very honest criticisms. But that's also what I love about SongFight.

What Kill Me Sarah said about production is very, very true too. We're a band that's really blessed to have the recording setup we have, as it often lets your listener focus less on the recording, and more on the song, obviously. However, I think reviewers here are EXTREMELY fair when it comes to production quality. Most here record on a laptop with one, maybe two mics, in their bedroom. And most reviewers are fine with that. That's another thing I love about Songfight, because nobody should be excluded just because they don't have 10K+ invested in their recording setup.

And finally, your song is good. It's a catchy and unique guitar bit, that, as melvin said, with a bit of practice could really be something more full-bodied. But you're 14, and you have found THE website that will be most helpful to your songwriting and musical skills. An instant muse and an instant audience, with feedback every week? Keep coming and we'll keep listening, and you will get better.

Wow, thanks you guys. It all makes more sense now. And now I'm sure eventually things will begin to even out with my songwriting. Since you're all great musicians I know I'm getting advice from people who know what they're talking about.

Adam Adamant - I have very little idea how you made this, but I enjoy the result. The tinny arpeggios and bass line work well with the main vocal line, all sad sounding. I suppose it was a lot of work to put this together, but a few more vocal lines might've been nice and balanced out the digi-madness of the rest of the track. Feels a bit empty in the middle although a nice break from the stutters.

Billy's Little Trip - Great main riffs and progressions. I like the half-steppy lines best. I think that your guitars are sounding better on this track as well, not that they necessarily sound bad prior. The vocals may be a little off, but the powerful delivery makes up for any wobbleage. I wonder what you cut out of here, as although the arrangement is fine and rocks hard, a weird turn in the middle might've been quite dramatic. Great tune and glad you're dishing out the goods.

Bloo Tattue - Makes me want to go out on the deck and drink in the sun. The bass line works best for me, aside from the strong melodies and excellent chorus. That left guitar is appropriate, and sounds great, but mix-wise is almost a bit threatening. Great vocals and the take your time patience of this track are swell. I think this tune should fare well in the voting as it's all around well balanced. Excellent work, sir.

Blues Manufacturing Facility - This is the best BMF song to date. I like the over-reverberated ting-TING. The playing gets a little bit more forceful than it needs to be at times, but the overall feel works well. Bass coming in midway would've been nice, all JP Jonesy. This would work well with a bit of Zepitude anyway. Underdeveloped but I like the potential, if mainly from vibe.

The Chadderandom Abyss - Sounds like one of your other songs but sped up: I like this better. I don't take your artsy fartsy stance seriously and I suppose if this were an attempt at being serious, it would be worse. It's OK for a toss-off, but kinda poopy.

Cobalt Stomach - Is this factual? Stiff programming, I still like the almost menacing synth lines. Maybe an in your face squealy dive bomb attack would've been scary, but I like the horror movie change halfway through, until the vocals trip it up. Although typical, a vocal through a bullhorn could also have added some threat. Cheap but a little fun.

Easy Collision - The one chord groove does and doesn't work, but the picky parts are nice and heady. Got a bass around? toss it in there as well doing an up from the bottom line. This is indeed a decent start if it's your second song. You sound like you might be little screwy and that's a good thing. Good luck and keep at it.

Four Township Water Resources Council - While impressed with the samples, I don't think I enjoy the spitty slurpitude of it all too much. Terrible as the story is, it'd be nice if it were louder to better understand it. I like the evolution of the song from weird to weirder, and the sweeping sounds work well. Points for trying to be different and if this were done on moody piano I'd be completely rolling my eyes.

Give Our Regards To The Earth's Core - Wimpy mix aside, I love the trademark woo-hoos and the early 80's melodies. What, is the bass still on the boat or something? Great fun although the a bit under-baked, this has a lot of potential for some spiffing up. Scruffy, but I like this much and hope you're just getting your feet underneath you again.

The Hand Formula - Is that a whoopy whistle? The melody is cute and effective. I actually like all the background noise, it sounds like you recorded this near traffic or something. Or an air conditioner. The 16th note drive on the glock is a bit much, but I don't have a better reccomendation. Light and pleasant, if this were on an album, a complete reversal of direction for the next song would make this stand out further, instead of, say, another one sleepily delivered.

i.p. - Very pleasantly heady, the drums feel a bit cluttery when everything comes in all at once like that. Regardless, the melodies are nice and spacey/haunting/pretty and supported by a nice chord structure. I think this would be better served by letting it breathe more, percussively. Way fewer drums, say. Very nice though, and I get a little bummed when it ends.

Jon Mayor - Well, a nice moody set-up for an Alice Cooper vocal which never arrives. Too bad, as some creepy lines about watching someone inappropriately would've been pleasantly disturbing here. Basses sound nice, but not enough development. More of a scratch pad.

Kill Me Sarah - Don't start a coast war, please. I like the jaunty feel here and dare I say, I can hear the influence of your buddy in their melodically. (the Friz) Mix-wise, the snare has a decent combo of snap and boom, if a bit much reverb perhaps. The toms are too boomy though and the kick lacks a strong definition. I like the song though it makes me hanker for some Beatles bass.

Lithium Institution - Simple layering defined. I swear I figured out who this was after two kick drum beats. Lack of vocals may be an attempt at camouflage, but rarely earn points round these parts. I like the noise parts best and wonder how you programmed an aluminum cake pan so well. The arpeggios are nice too, but how about a throat shredding scream or a reverbed out goth voice all moody and vampiric?

Marvin Fairchild - Again with the thump beat and adding the simple layers. The toy piano sound fits good though. I think the Terminator is coming to give me my change that I forgot at the donut shop. Too minimalistic, which isn't necessarily a problem, it's just not selling well here w/o a mondo bizzarro vocal about...something.

MC Eric B - The lyrics are both corny and well done. Probably bug the hell out of a young punk, bring a tear to the eyes of a parent who lived through the experience. Well done, though. I like how you're developing your songs more, this being the strongest yet. Nice layers, they feel almost a little shy. If you could harmonize on the vocal, instead of just double it up, it would've been more effective, but good work overall.

noah mclaughlin - I like the digital bum da bums and that weirdo guitar chord best. the best thing about this is the head scratching "what the hell is he doing"-ness of this. Very odd, but enjoyable directions this goes in. It's like it should be scary but is somehow a friendly giant. Extra points for strange new territory. A little cold with all the synth sounds, but open chords add some welcome air.

Osharenistas - I like the easy-going casual vibe here, but as nice as the chorus is, I find it a little squirmy compared to the verses. Nice overlapping vocals. This sounds like something you'd hear at a wedding for some reason. I do enjoy the loose production though.

Paco del Stinko - Goofy. The first two verses are true, the last not at all. Lame ending, amongst other things.

Short Wheel City - Sounds like a Crazy Horse reject. I mean, good attempt at that kind of vibe, but a little too scruffy. I like the chorus, if very wobbley, it still manages to capture a good mood. The verses are OK, just very typical early 70's or something. Still, I like the hippy dippy direction this wants to in and like it overall. Nothing that'll set its hooks in and not let go, but mellow rockitude enough.

SomeGuyCalledNoel - Very nice hmmm hmm and octave guitar part: that's very delicious each time it comes. I like the pacing of this as it feels important w/o being pretentious. Arrangement-wise, this is just right. I think it sounds nice with the sparse instrumentation and doesn't need any thing else added. The harmonies are nice, and just enough. Good work, even though the stop is unnecessary.

Sven Mullet - Super guitarage all the way through. Just great riffs. I like the key changes in here, they are not where I'd esxpect them to go. I know you usually rank on your voice but I think it works great here, even if I don't understand all the lyrics. Again, very Husker Du at times. the ending could be improved though, it's like you just kind of quit on it. I like this a lot though.

The Thomas Jeffersons - Very watered down Tom Waits, the lonesome train sounds at the start work well as does the bass line. The beat comes across a little stiff and I'm wondering if a little extra cheese on the vocal might've actually helped. Hard to pull of this style, I suppose, on all fronts, but a good attempt. Less tick-ticka on the drums could've helped but hey, so much to do in so little time, eh?

The Weakest Suit - This is good for a scratch pad. Neon always supplies a good image. The melodies are good, and would be pretty decent with further development. I like the half-time feel after the chorus. Good tune begging for a little more attention to be paid to it so it can grow to be big and strong, it doesn't feel as long as it says it is.

Paco Del Stinko wrote:Billy's Little Trip[/b] - Great main riffs and progressions. I like the half-steppy lines best. I think that your guitars are sounding better on this track as well, not that they necessarily sound bad prior. The vocals may be a little off, but the powerful delivery makes up for any wobbleage. I wonder what you cut out of here, as although the arrangement is fine and rocks hard, a weird turn in the middle might've been quite dramatic. Great tune and glad you're dishing out the goods.

Thanks, Chuck E Cheese. Explain the twist in the middle that you had in mind. You always surprise me with your ideas.

adam adamant
+++ vocal treatment and melody +++
--- choppy synth and samples ---

billy's little trip [vote]
+++ rock guitars! +++
/// vox seem a little out of time and out of tune ///
+++ bridge +++

lithium institution
--- drum machine builds and random samples ---

noah mclaughlin [that would be me]
/// all samples from http://www.sampleswap.org////
/// i'm somewhat torn about how the drums came out; on a whim, i used HammherHead, while I usually use Leaf Drums ///
+++ i like the various tones i was able to incorporate (bass, lead guitar, etc.) +++
--- my anthony kiedis impression is poor ---

blootattue [vote]
+++ what a lot of fun! +++
+++ the lyrics and vox harmonies remind me a great deal of Phish +++

paco del stinko
/// the vox are a little far up in the mix and seem to be from a different sonic enivornment as the rest of the music ///

i.p. [possible vote]
/// vox are little hot ///
--- drums are cluttered and distracting; it may partially be a matter of mixing/panning ---
+++ great vox tone and melody +++

marvin fairchild
/// i sense a little NIN with the valve release sound ///
--- 1:00 and no vox or even a melody yet ---
--- 2:00 and no vox or even a melody yet ---
--- 3:00 and no vox or even a melody yet ---
/// 4:00 - this is an interesting composition, but it's relation to the title is not apparent ///

osharenistas
+++ vox melody and harmonies +++
--- the musical arrangement is rather uninspiring ---

jon mayor
+++ ooooh, i likes that bass tone... +++
--- but apparently, that's about all there is to this ---
/// wait, there's a weak lead guitar line; I think I know that VST plug-in... ///

mc eric b
--- as personal as this may be, the story is cliched and full of tired aphorisms ---
--- unremarkable save for poor singing ---

give our regards to the earth's core [vote]
+++ good job channelling early R.E.M. +++
--- gets kinda samey; needs dynamism ---

cobalt stomach
--- the vocal delivery needs more feeling: angst, lamentation, nostlagia; i'm getting nothing ---
/// very sudden change, there: and now the emotion is over the top ///

easy collision
+++ c.f. the toadies +++
/// the tie to the title is a big stretch ///
--- THE NEXT BIG THING = Darth Vader's "NOOOOOOOO!" in Episode 3 ---

the weakest suit
/// a good melody and an interesting story that needs a lot of work to reach its potential ///

the thomas jeffersons
--- and i repeat: as personal as this may be, the story is cliched and full of tired aphorisms ---
/// this is musically more interesting take than mc eric b's, but still not very inspiring ///
--- the constant bell/high-pitch "tink" of the percussion track gets annoying --

four township water council
+++ disturbing +++

kill me sarah
+++ good melody and harmonies +++
--- the chorus seems to grind down compared to the more upbead verse ---
/// since you asked for technical advice: i've always gotten a better acoustic guitar sound with a more traditional "V" mic formation: centered on the sound hole, aim one mic towards the 12th fret and the other at the bridge ///

blues manufactuaring facility
--- too much reverb ---
--- "ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh" and other whining ---
+++ like the bluesy lyrics +++

short wheel city
+++ good guitar tones and melody +++
--- chorus vox needs more punch ---

someguycallednoel [VOTE]
+++ nice guitar lick +++
+++ a good story well told +++
+++ i like the humming "anti-chorus" +++

chadderandom abyss
--- odd and irritating without rhythm, melody or real raison-d'etre ---

sven mullet [vote]
+++ rock out! +++

brian l. frye
--- white noise and mud ---
/// there's a certain minimalist appeal to this song, yet something keeps this from greatness ///

[quote="nyjm"]
easy collision
+++ c.f. the toadies +++
/// the tie to the title is a big stretch ///
--- THE NEXT BIG THING = Darth Vader's "NOOOOOOOO!" in Episode 3 ---

Why doesn't anyone get the true meaning behind the lyrics? Read my earlier post. Who the hell implies they're going to be the next big thing in their music?

EasyCollision wrote:Why doesn't anyone get the true meaning behind the lyrics?

I don't think you included enough in your lyrics for your intended meaning to be easily understood by the listener. If you really care about your audience getting the true meaning of your lyrics, you have to write the lyrics with enough clues for them to discover what you were singing about. What specific phrases do you think would lead a listener to know that this song is sung from the point of view of a celebrity whose mind has been taken over by the media?

Paco Del Stinko wrote: Kill Me Sarah - Don't start a coast war, please. I like the jaunty feel here and dare I say, I can hear the influence of your buddy in their melodically. (the Friz) Mix-wise, the snare has a decent combo of snap and boom, if a bit much reverb perhaps. The toms are too boomy though and the kick lacks a strong definition. I like the song though it makes me hanker for some Beatles bass.

Thanks Paco. That reverb is actually a fully tiled basement, which was the only space we had to record the drums in. I'm hoping in the future we can record somewhere w/ better acoustics. I also had a problem with too much of the snare and toms coming thru the kick mic, even though it was IN the soundhole, so any recommendations on how I could improve the bass mic positioning is welcome. Also, all these bass comments are making me wonder if I should be focusing on getting a bass for recording rather than an amp for performing right now.

Also, nyjm: thanks for the mic tips, I'll try those out on my next recording.

kms: before I owned a bass, I just played bass on guitar, using a clean sound with the neck pickup, and rolling off the tone knob to bass. Then compress the hell out of it, and pitch-shift it down an octave. This works in a pinch, although a real bass sounds better.

nyjm wrote:give our regards to the earth's core [vote]
+++ good job channelling early R.E.M. +++

Heh! Yeah, it is a bit, isn't it. I hadn't realised - nice call. I love REM, so that is understandable. I even sped up the final mix slightly which raised the pitch of my voice and probably Stipeified it a bit.

nyjm wrote: i.p. [possible vote]
/// vox are little hot ///
--- drums are cluttered and distracting; it may partially be a matter of mixing/panning ---
+++ great vox tone and melody +++

The drums were outside i.p.'s normal method. We ususally record everything live, but do to noise factor, the vibes, a little bit of synth, and the drums were done with Reason, through Pro Tools to compliment the guitar, vox, bass and others. Also, I ended up trying to mix the drums, which is not my forte. James is the producer extraordinaire, and he had been asleep for an hour when I woke him up to listen to it one last time...
But I agree. The drums are verrrrry cluttered. Too busy. And the vocals, thus, had to be turned up a tad, which makes them a bit abrasive.

But thanks for the possible vote!

I put these on a disc and have been listening in the truck. I guess if I’m going to say anything, I better do it now. I don’t know who is who and I don’t have anything to say about the half of the songs that I was skipping by the third listen. These are the ones I liked and I’m sorry that, like most folks, I probably find it easier to pick on some obvious shortfall instead of pointing out the good stuff.

The guitar rocker with the quiet intro – Like the music; love the vocal delivery. I can’t tell if the vocal is somewhat atonal to fit the screamy style or if it’s just struggling with pitch, but if the melody was a little firmer, you’d have me on this one.

The one with the counterpoint – Honestly, it’s just a bit too lovely for me to be crazy about it, but, wow, this is nicely done. It’s very musical, if you know what I mean. For me, it might be more engaging with a more aggressive arrangement.

The Beach Boys one – This genre is not really something I want to listen to much of, but while saying that, I should admit that it’s exactly the kind of thing I’m apt to toss off some week. I like the non-lyrical vocal stuff, the oohs and ahhs and whatnot. I usually end up skipping most of this because I can’t make out the lead vocal.

The voyeurism-ish one – This one grew on me through the week. At first, I was put off by the vocal, thinking it sounded kind of “forced” or something but eventually I got over myself. Again, I like the non-lyric stuff – the “whoa-oh-oh’s” and that nice nonsense-syllable run at the end of one of the verses. Nice job.

The other kinda-retro guitar thing – I don’t like this as much as I wanted to because, ultimately, it sounds pretty much like a thousand other songs. I think I’m looking for more of a hook or some kind of textural variety. There’s one line – “everything I’ve learned I learned from you” (or something) – that really jumped out (in a good way) at me every time it spun around.

The guy and guitar one, late in the alphabet, with a lot of repetition in the melody and accompaniment – This seems like it was thoughtfully put together and it’s well performed. That kind of repetition works for some songs but, for me, not here particularly.

The “Texas town” one – I’m conflicted. The “music” on this one annoys me so much that it has no business floating around above my personal Mendoza line, but here it is. The lyrics are engaging and I like the vocal improvisations before/between the verses.

The landlord one – This is just plain solid and is another that grew on me throughout the week. It just might be my favorite of the bunch. I particularly like the rhythm of the second line of the chorus with the slight pause before “spent”. My biggest nit is that the last line of the chorus unwinds rather unspectacularly, if not awkwardly and that’s a real bad place to risk losing your listener.

The one with uke and toy piano – I’m not 100% on this, but I think this might be one of my favorite songs in the fight this week. I have a real hard time appreciating it through the arrangement though. (And I understand that sometimes some folks don’t have a lot of options.)

The one with the musical contrast and female vox – This was probably the most interesting listen the first time through and it’s short enough that it never really got old. I don’t think I ever skipped ahead through this although the crash sample started to annoy me after a week. Oddly though, I can’t remember the song when it’s not playing – it’s another one that needs a good hook, I think.

Um, here's who I'm voting for.

x Adam Adamant
x Billy's Little Trip
BlooTattue
x Blues Manufacturing Facility
The Chadderandom Abyss
x Cobalt Stomach
x Easy Collision
Four Township Water Resources Council
x Give Our Regards To The Earth's Core
The Hand Formula
x i.p.
x Jon Mayor
x Kill Me Sarah
Lithium Institution
x Marvin Fairchild
x MC Eric B
x noah mclaughlin
x Osharenistas
x Paco del Stinko
Short Wheel City
x SomeGuyCalledNoel
x Sven Mullet
x The Thomas Jeffersons
x The Weakest Suit

Edit for formatting: failed. Readability: acceptable?

Lord of Oats wrote:Um, here's who I'm voting for.

cut/copy/edit Oatsy's list

I am far less generous with the ticks:

Adam Adamant
Billy's Little Trip
BlooTattue
Blues Manufacturing Facility
The Chadderandom Abyss
x Cobalt Stomach
Easy Collision
Four Township Water Resources Council
x Give Our Regards To The Earth's Core
The Hand Formula
x i.p.
Jon Mayor
x Kill Me Sarah
Lithium Institution
Marvin Fairchild
MC Eric B
noah mclaughlin
Osharenistas
Paco del Stinko
Short Wheel City
SomeGuyCalledNoel
x Sven Mullet
The Thomas Jeffersons
The Weakest Suit

will try to get back with some actual reviews - or at least brief comments later...