The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Generic wrote:JB is pointing out that SUV sales dropped when gas was expensive, and hybrid sales went up. Gas prices dropped again, and SUV sales increased, hybrid sales dropped again. Clearly, these aren't all for soccer practice.

What I got from JB was, to let gas prices skyrocket because that's the only way people will stop using it and burning it like water. No hydrogen pun intended. But I may have read it the way I wanted to hear it.

SUV sales dropped when gas was expensive, and hybrid sales went up. Gas prices dropped again, and SUV sales increased, hybrid sales dropped again.

While we may all live in the now, can't we think past it? Idiots.

Generic wrote:

Billy's Little Trip wrote:

Generic wrote:I still don't see how buying an SUV is worth anyone's while when there are hybrids available and gas isn't free.

But JB is right.

Hybrid SUVs have only become available in the past 6 months, that's why. Keep in mind, there is a world beyond yours.

That's fair enough, but I know way too many single people who drive SUVs or Hummers without those excuses.

And if you really need to cram that many people into a car, then the price of gas isn't going to influence your decision over what kind of vehicle to buy. JB is pointing out that SUV sales dropped when gas was expensive, and hybrid sales went up. Gas prices dropped again, and SUV sales increased, hybrid sales dropped again. Clearly, these aren't all for soccer practice.

Catch a frikking bus, Earthmurderers

Or ride a bike.

The Prius should be big enough for a family with one kid at least, maybe two... it's surprisingly big inside, but I've seen how my friends with kids have to pack the whole house when going out for the afternoon, so who knows. Seems rather silly that hybrid sales are so tied to the price of gas. The Prius is an awesome car no matter the price of gas, and I'd buy another one if my current one got eaten by a grue or something. As long as I didn't get eaten also.
-bill

Thanks a lot, bill.

HYBRID VEHICLES DO IN FACT TASTE DELICIOUS.

Seems to me that this aspect of human nature is why we have governments. They allow us to force ourselves to take the action that benefits the group at the expense of the mainstream individual. When, that is, we can convince our intellects to override our ids and direct our representatives to take those actions.

So to get us to buy hybrids and save gas, we will have to artificially increase the price of gas. Probably through taxation. That will only happen once it's clear, intellectually, to enough of us exactly what the price of pollution truly is. Until that day we won't tell the government to make us behave in that way. I say "intellectually" because emotionally we probably still won't get it and will buy that bottled water, drive to work instead of take the train, etc. even though we know better. *I* know better, and I still do those things. My front porch light is on as I type this.

This principle is true for lots of things. It's economics. People aren't going to stop wasting water until it costs a lot. People aren't going to turn off their lights when they leave the house until electricity, or light bulbs, are really expensive.

And in MY opinion, it's always going to be preferable to make it so that our base natures can exist EVEN THOUGH they are wasteful-- make energy so cheap it doesn't matter if we leave the lights on. But do it through technology that is also ecologically sound, if that's possible.

If people who care about the world really want it to survive, really want the ocean to flourish and the forest to bloom, they should pour their efforts into ways we can live in the manner to which we have become accustomed and STILL not destroy the Earth. 'Cause the movement to stop being wasteful is just never going to do much other than slow down, through the power of guilt, the progression of our collective tuberculosis.

jb wrote:If people who care about the world really want it to survive, really want the ocean to flourish and the forest to bloom, they should pour their efforts into ways we can live in the manner to which we have become accustomed and STILL not destroy the Earth. 'Cause the movement to stop being wasteful is just never going to do much other than slow down, through the power of guilt, the progression of our collective tuberculosis.

This is where I'm at. We have the technology and new great minds coming into the system everyday. To say we should go backwards, is much harder to do and could continue the same path of pollution that we're in now. Ok, so there aren't people driving to work in their cars, but street full of buses packed to the gills with people, that require big energy hungry engines to move them. It's much better for our planet to make the things we use on a daily basis more eco friendly. We have great inventions that make our lives better, why not advance on those ideas? We know how, so what's it going to take to make it happen?

jb wrote: So to get us to buy hybrids and save gas, we will have to artificially increase the price of gas. Probably through taxation.

No - it is not artificially increasing the price of petrol - it is paying the real price of petrol as opposed to the artificial prices which currently exist.

Current prices are artificial because they do not include the external costs associated with fossil fuel use, such as environmental damage and social disruption from car-based town planning. Then there are the costs associated with invading Middle East countries to take their oil. You do actually pay that through the tax that keeps the US military occupied in those sort of jobs.

If people payed the real cost of petrol, their consumption habits would change.

Though it is probably best to never used word like "real" when talking about economics. Economics is a pile of shit, practiced by boring little men who are incapable of pulling their heads out of their arses to see beyond the stupid little pseudo-science they have created. When the revolution comes...there will be a wall for them.

You don't have to go backwards to reduce energy costs. Reducing energy usage while improving technology is a legitimate engineering task. Look at what Apple is doing with all their computers now - they're reducing the energy use across the board (in construction, distribution, operation, and post-consumer recycling) while also removing as many toxic byproducts from their manufacturing as they can. Meanwhile their computers are also the fastest and most capable that they've ever been, and meanwhile they also lead to reduction in other aspects of life (for example, thanks to computers I use very little paper in my day-to-day life, and paper manufacturing is one of the worst things for the planet, and recycling paper still has a net negative effect - less negative than making new paper but still, it ain't free).

Caravan Ray wrote:

jb wrote: So to get us to buy hybrids and save gas, we will have to artificially increase the price of gas. Probably through taxation.

No - it is not artificially increasing the price of petrol - it is paying the real price of petrol as opposed to the artificial prices which currently exist.

Yeah I knew somebody would say that. I thought of saying "(or stop artificially lowering it)".

fluffy wrote:Look at what Apple is doing with all their computers now - they're reducing the energy use across the board (in construction, distribution, operation, and post-consumer recycling) while also removing as many toxic byproducts from their manufacturing as they can. Meanwhile their computers are also the fastest and most capable that they've ever been,

You just gave a perfect example of my argument. Apple didn't take away any of the features that Apple users have come to love, they actually made it better and at the same time made it more eco friendly. There is a great mind born every other minute, so there is no reason that every product in the world shouldn't follow this design. No one made Steve Jobs design his products this way, he did it because he had the power and resources to do the right thing. The same goes for BMW when they gave Tom Baloga unlimited resources to head his H7 (hydrogen engine) project.

I like Jay Leno and I love his auto reviews. This one is edited a bit annoying, but he real points out the key facts with a little chuckle.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1072534/j ... ydrogen_7/