The Song Fight Bulletin Board

HeadShot wrote:Mantzfield – I was going to vote for this...But the chorus came in and suddenly the vocals didn’t match with the instrumentals.

the chorus vocals were the last I recorded, and i had a particularly melody stuck in my head that I just couldn't shake, it quite clearly was completely wrong but, again, I spent too much time on the instruments, particularly the drums, and it got to the stage where I had to mixdown where I was or miss the fight, and hell, I have no shame so I went for it. live and learn.

Authors Of wrote:MantzfieldThe bass is right in there too, playing some really crazy riffs.

I'm so glad someone picked out the bass, it's easily my favorite part of the song!

fishsticks wrote:MantzfieldI have a hunch you're on the cusp of a large improvement leap.

ha! I seem to have been living on that cusp for most of my life

mico saudad wrote:Mantzfield - Wow. totally a Nintendo boss fight scene. Like the end boss.

that is a bizarre, incredibly awesome, yet oddly comforting thing to say...

thanks to the reviewers so far, I'm surprised at the positive comments as I really can't listen to the chorus (it literally makes me want to hurt myself), I have an instrumental mixdown for my personal pleasure! so yea, thanks for them, and for the criticisms, it all helps! Onwards with my own reviews then:

before the fire - bizarre, which is good, but I'm unsure what it was and nothing really happened, though I did like the end.
berkeley social scene - musically liked it a lot, it has a nice flow. I'm not usually fan of synths, it's far too easy for them to sound really out of place, but the synth really makes this song. only weak point is that the vocals are a little weak but that doesn't ruin the song.
chopped liver meat god - the intro instantly reminds me of smashing pumpkins... the rhythm guitars could be a little more distinct. enjoyed the breakdown, if the violin sounded a tiny bit smoother it would've been perfect. change in the second half was a little odd, but i liked the outro.
cthonic pop ensemble - didn't mind the song, particularly the ending. the breakdown part was a little drawn out, and the kick-in not enough to justify it.
cnthonic youth - quite enjoyed the pacing and 'bounce' of the song, then the pacing started bugging me a little, and once it started it didn't stop.
crank radio - funky melody, seems a little bland but the ending definitely won me over. VOTE
Elaine Dimasi - really like the lyrics. One part of me was screaming for some subtle reverb, or stereo widening, but overall i really like the simplicity of the song.
howl down the chimney - sounds a little like Mark Lanegan to start with. nice subtle musical overlays, and the banjo is genius. little dragged out, but it works well.
jon titterington - liked it, i was slightly put off by the odd timings in the middle, they seemed a little out of place, but its quickly back to where I wanted it to be.
king arthur - instantly I'm thinking 80's country rock, no major complaints with the song, its just not my thing
light with heat - enjoyed the beginning. tambourine sounds a bit loud until the distortion kicks in. again no complaints, I just felt like it needed something else towards the end.
lyric burgler inside your head - seemed a little lacking, though I liked some points. I'm a sucker for a crazy feedback ending, but it missed out on a vote.
noah mclaughlin - nothing wrong, quite liked the guitar, though the bass could've been a tadge more prominent for my liking, the song just didnt grab me.
paco del stinko - really nice start, enjoying the simple but funky bass, and liked the 'classic country'-sih edge it has.
pathetic wannabees - too old school for me, vocals seemed slightly over-prominent and i felt like i was missing out on the instruments.
ripping hammer - really good start, very Modest Mouse. liking the subtle percussion. short but effective
rone rivendale - interesting ideas, but the chorus timings killed it for me.
shitload of dolphins - simple, very nice, and I liked the guitar riff. also I did actually laugh at the band name...
water bill - enjoying the slightly aggressive vocals over the simple, subtle and effective music.
weakest suit - probably the fastest song, which is a bonus in my books, but i didn't really get on with it, can't figure out why, on paper I should love it but I've listened to it a few times and it's just not working for me.

HeuristicsInc wrote:

nyjm wrote:

Phil Dotree (author of article above) wrote:1. Avoid the three zones of extreme panning. Dead center, extreme left, and extreme right are three zones where you should usually not be putting any instruments; if something's going into any of these areas, you've got to have an extremely good reason.

Why?

yeah, i thought it was pretty standard practice to pan the bass right in the middle...
-bill

after clearly stipulating that you should never put anything in the centre, he does carry on to say, apart from bass of course, oh, and bass drum, and probably the snare. oh yea, and the vocals as well.
really he shoulda said that first, followed by "and nothing else goes in the centre"

Always happy to see some great offerings. Reviews in utterly random order. (Repeat after me: "The Shuffle button is my friend.")

King Arthur - vote for overall songwriting excellence
+++ danceable +++
/// I would like the verse vox deliery to be smoother ///
+++ lyrics +++

Howl Down the Chimney - vote for composition/arrangement
+++ creepy reverb +++
/// I'd love to hear Johnny Cash (may the Man in Black rest in peace) cover this ///
+++ saxophone! (and other horns) +++

Jon Titterington - vote for new mix
+++ action mix +++
/// the new mix adds the dynamics and range that your original submission was lacking ///
+++ good backbone : driving riff, melody, nice backing vox touch on the chorus +++

The Weakest Suit
+++ bring the PUNK! +++
--- buried vox ---
/// could use a lead guit part ///

Water Bill
--- muddy mix ---
/// bring that synth line up and give the kick more punch ///
+++ bass line +++
--- lacks dynamics; needs a breakdown, maybe, or just a gripping hook ---

Chthonic Pop Ensemble
/// mmm... the beginning sounds like Soft Cell with a horn section... ///
+++ dynamics +++
/// actually, this might be a little too sprawling. "A" for ambition, though ///

The Lyric Burglar Inside Your Head
--- sounds like a bad Black Sabbath cover band ---
--- all jangle and no drive ---

Elaine Dimaisi
+++ I'll join the chorus of "Bravo for an all-vocal submission" +++
--- several times, this starts to develop a great little melody, then changes gears before I can start humming along ---

Rone Rivendale
--- pull the mic out of your mouth ---
/// there's a soupçon of a good punk song in here; I'd like to hear Phil Redmon cover this; or hell, maybe I'll do it ///

Chopped Liver Meat God
+++ RAWK +++
/// first section vox could use a bit more conviction and/or snarl; it sounds like you're struggling to keep up with the tempo ///
--- nasal vox ---

Pathetic Wannabees
/// muddy mix; solved with judicious EQ'ing and bringing up the band and panning the parts just so ///
+++ ol' school rockin fun +++

noah mclaughlin - vote for ego (and hey, it's a good song)
+++ Caravan Ray-inspired chorus backing vox +++
--- rather peripheral connection to title; I imagine the singer has committed something unpardonable to his lover ---
/// the first part of each verse needs to be sung more smoothly; more love and longing, less angst ///

Chthonic Youth - almost vote for unconventional song
+++ perfectly channels Sonic Youth +++
+++ bass +++
--- lyrics don't have much a tie to the title; I'd like to see something a bit more poetic than your own personal nostalgia ---
--- the ending is uninspiring ---

Paco Del Stinko - vote for overal songwriting excellence
+++ dynamics +++
/// would like some more sonic differentiation for the bridge; except for the lyrics, it sounds just like the previous verses ///
+++ is that a slide guitar? bring that fun stuff up in the mix! +++

Ripping Hammer
+++ neat mix of clean and fuzzy tones +++
+++ outro is my favorite part +++

Crank Radio
--- muddy rhythm guitar ---
--- ending ---
/// otherwise, at the core, this is a strong song +++

Falco
--- WTF ---

Light With Heat
/// I'd pull the tambourine down and the vox up ///
+++ chorus +++
/// it's a total cop-out, but there's nothing about this that grabs me. Good tune, but you have to bring more than that to win a Song Fight ///

Berkley Social Scene
--- off key vox ---
+++ hard-panned dueling acoustic(s) +++

Shitload of Dolphins - vote for great lyrics
+++ crisp, clean production +++
+++ lyrics are amusing and creepy at the same time +++
/// note to all G&G submitters : THIS is what you need to do - good singing, a simple, catchy melody, crisp production and a truly creative take on the title ///

Mantzfield
--- vox arrangement is too messy and the melody is too rushed; I can't understand you ---
--- this song is too long for everything going on here; get in, fuck up my ears with a left hook and get out ---

Ooh, Taco!

[edit]Sorry, this is not an attempt to encourage such behavior...[/edit] 8)

HeadShot wrote:

Authors Of wrote:I wish the guitar was louder; I wish it was more blastic in my face.

I'm not a very good guitarist so I didn't want the guitar parts to stick out too much. They used to be too loud, so I tried to bring it down some (I'm not a very good mixologist either) -- maybe it was too much.

Authors Of wrote:I like the guitar solo.

Really!? Again, I'm not a very good guitarist, and after about ten takes of increasingly disappointing failures to get something I was happy with, I started taking out my frustration on the whammy bar, the strings, and even the pickup selecter switch. This is why there is about 40 seconds of feedback and noise after the song ends, because I was so frustrated. I thought the solo was pretty much crap.

Authors Of wrote:The vocals are fun. Reminds me of a Danzig demo tape.

Thank you. I am not anticipating anyone calling the vocals "good", so I'll happily accept a "fun". In my original concept, the vocals were a lot more Crowbar-sounding, but once I added all the instrumental tracks, it wouldn't have fit with the music so I ended up going in the direction that you hear now.

fishsticks wrote:-1 rearranging the lyrics
I you're going to burgle, you should burgle straight.

Okay, but had I left them alone, the song would probably have exceeded like six minutes. I'll take the -1 points rather than whatever deduction THAT would have earned!
(The original lyrical structure seemed too ballady to me, I thought there were too many iterations of the chorus, so I cut half of them. Then, the first verse didn't make sense when it wasn't followed immediately by a chorus, so I switched the first two quatrains. I thought the story flowed better (at least in my interpretation/presentation) than it would have otherwise.)

mico saudad wrote:You've definitely got a consistent style, but it's too loose and plodding for my taste.

Thanks. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on both points. A constant problem I face is that what I hear before I start recording usually doesn't even remotely resemble what you hear when I've finished, and this particular song is no exception. I would like to learn how to correct this. I can think of no other way than to continue trying to capture what I envisioned, and failing, until eventually I get it right.

martyr wrote:

Mantzfield wrote:seemed a little lacking, though I liked some points.

Mind elaborating (PM if you prefer) which points you liked? I've got several years' worth of being out of practice at writing songs, and I would definitely like to work at it more in the near future: it would be helpful to know what is worth developing further...

nyjm wrote:--- sounds like a bad Black Sabbath cover band ---

I guess that comment is totally subjective, depending upon your personal opinion of Sabbath, but to me that would indicate a fairly high-quality song performed awfully. Is that what you meant? Because I think the two main riffs sound way too lazy to be Iommi rip-offs.

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your comments so far -- mine will be forthcoming in a few days.

Eric Y. wrote:

Mantzfield wrote:seemed a little lacking, though I liked some points.

Mind elaborating (PM if you prefer) which points you liked? I've got several years' worth of being out of practice at writing songs, and I would definitely like to work at it more in the near future: it would be helpful to know what is worth developing further...

Not at all.
Mainly I liked the pacing, it's one of those songs that constantly sounds a like its being played slightly too slow to me, but I really like that in songs. personally I would of emphasised that with some off beat snares, but thats just me.
I also liked the verse guitar riff, but a bit more volume would of helped. Solo was a bit sloppy, but fun, and again, love the crazy feedback ending

Lord of Oats/CLMG- Did you sample Smashing Pumpkins' "That's The Way My Love Is"?

My review philosophy:

1. You probably listen to music, and therefore know where your song could use improvement in regards to mixing, levels, guitar tone, etc. I'll just skip that bit.

2. We all make artistic decisions that will alienate a portion of our audience. If you alienate me knowingly, ignore my words and good for you!

3. If I skipped you, I don't believe I have anything to say that you don't already know. If you have specific questions or are genuinely interested in my opinion, I'm happy to give it to you -- PM me.

* is indicative of probable vote.

Chopped Liver Meat God - The second half was quite good. The first was not.

Crank Radio * - Now, this is coming from a super shitty drummer that can't play a fill for pudding sticks, but you might want to think about changing up that drum beat a bit or getting a different loop. You get a little sloppy around 1:40. Deleting 2:01-2:34 would have lead to a tigher, more succinct song without losin' anything.

Elaine DiMasi - So I know you got this one in early and quickly, but what I enjoy most about your tracks is your excellent instrumentation. So while we always give high-fives for going out on a limb, it would have been more fun to listen to with a broader palate of sound.

Howl Down the Chimney * - CLEAR AND EASY WINNER BY FAR.

J. Titterington * - This made me think of Bon Jovi at the beginning. I was kinda waiting for a cowbell. I even tried to play a drum track along with this, but I realized you're probably not playing to a click, are you?

Mantzfield - Tighter playing and shorter length might have made this a vote. It was kinda sloppy and all over the place.

P. del Stinko *

Ripping Hammer * - This was awesome. For me, fade outs are kind of cop outs. You could have stopped abruptly before the fade and it would have been better.

Sh*tload of Dolphins - This was funny, but it's kind of one of those songs where you make your point early on and it's hard to keep up inertia. Shootin' for a 0:54ish length may have helped keep up the inertia.

Water Bill - Okay Bill -- what are you using here to obtain your sounds? Do you hardware wired up or are you using plugins? Details, please!

The Weakest Suit * - I didn't see that coming! Rockit!

I don’t know what was with my ears tonight - but I had hard time hearing the songs in the midst of all the interesting sounds. A very eclectic fight, and I enjoyed the aesthetic of a lot of these without necessarily being able to access the song underneath.

Before the Fire - Guilty

BSS - there are some interesting sounds going on and the tune is good - the vocals are not quite carrying what they ought to. The stereo acoustics are a little distracting in their fragmentation. You kinda lose me in the chorus - which seems like the opposite of what ought to happen. A few tweaks might have made this a stronger listen for me.

Pathetic Wannabees - Nothing here got me. You almost sound like a real band this week, but somehow that takes away the flair that makes somebody wonder what that crazy singer is up to. I didn’t notice the lyrics this way.

Cthonic youth - The sound is cool, but I wish you sang actually - I’m not sure why you didn’t at least at some point in the song, I also didn’t think your take on the title was very engaging.

Cthonic Pop ensemble - this just seems really stilted to me as a song, although it is interesting from an arrangement point of view.

Mantzfield - another one where I find hte sound really cool, but I hardly notice what the song is inside the sound. I like the chorus, though. I want to pump my fist and sing along.

King Arthur - As always your lyrics flow nicely - I wish you worked a little more diversity into the arrangement to highlight parts of the story. I like the ambiguous ending, as well.

Light w/Heat - This is such an eclectic fight stylistically. I think that here the style and words work really well. Ken is that you? Vote.

Paco - Goin’ for two in a row? I like the arrangement a lot and the build - I kinda like you doing a “normal” song. nice - vote

Clubs - Interesting stylistic turn for you - but the michael jackson reference isn’t working for me.

Crank Radio - wow- Idon’t know if it’s my headphones or what - but another cool sounding track where the song is not there to be found.

Howl - nice banjo I love your sound as always and yet again - the song is having trouble fighting through it (unlike your usual songs).

poopload of dolphins - you had to go there with the lyrics, huh. your take didn’t so a thing for me. but it sounded nice.

water bill - nice sounds again - let’s hear the song. acquitted in my dreams is nice.

Noah - nice arrangement choices througout - but anothe song that just didn’t engage me at the content level.

Ripping Hammer - I think you are Todd Mchatton - I like this. neat sounds you draw me intot hte words instead of covering them up. vote

John T. - nice layering of both voices and instruments. (and lyrics) interesting song - you have me listening.great breakdown and rebuild. vote

Eliaine - you are oversinging this, I think. roses are delicate - sing it delicate. teh rhyming is the song? ok. See you at 5090.

reve wrote:
J. Titterington * - This made me think of Bon Jovi at the beginning. I was kinda waiting for a cowbell. I even tried to play a drum track along with this, but I realized you're probably not playing to a click, are you?

I was playing to a click, actually. I posted this earlier, but after I sent a friend the raw mp3, he surprised me by tracking drums, bass and guitars around it. Definitely captures the energy that the original is hinting at: http://championvinyl.net/iwbaACTIONMIX.mp3

reve wrote:If I skipped you, I believe I [don't] have anything to say that you don't already know.

Fair enough.

Ross wrote:I had hard time hearing the songs in the midst of all the interesting sounds.

Shall I assume this is why mine was omitted from your list?

oh... and

martyr wrote:Will it explode? Hmm seems to keep doing the same thing with verse and chorus barely differentiated and the same gruff grumbling throughout.

Probably the most helpful comments I've seen yet. If I was better at playing guitar, the solo would have been better. The solo, and the way it continues through the final chorus into the feedback, was a weak attempt at increasing the intensity and varying dynamic levels, but I definitely needed to do more throughout the entire song to create the effect I wanted. Thank you for summarizing that for me so succinctly.

reve wrote:Okay Bill -- what are you using here to obtain your sounds? Do you hardware wired up or are you using plugins? Details, please!

'
Literally, it's all in FL Studio 5, no hardware at all. For the bass I used the Sytrus Plugin and modified the "Super Bass" pre-set so it had less attack and came across smoother. For the "guitar" I used the 3xOsc plugin, "Sci4" pre-set. I didn't modify that. The drums were The DrumSynth plugin, which I have to use because I have the program illegally, and when I moved it over to my new computer almost all of the samples that came with the program were missing little peices somewhere in their code, making them impossible to use. This really sucks because it also destroyed the Robot Voice plugin, whatever it's called. Oh well, it was a pain in the ass to use anyway. Anyway, as how I do with most of my songs, I finished the instrumentals, and rendered them into a single wav file that Audacity could import.

For the vocals, I used Audacity and my computer microphone, for the most part, as you can hear, singing a two part harmony. I had to rerecord these many times just to get them as well synced up as they are, sadly enough. I first compressed them down/up to the proper levels, (if you do it right, once is always enough), then equalized them, cutting 3 decibels from everything under 300 hz, and adding 3 decibels to everything above 1000 hz. Then I added reverb, and was done with it.

Eric Y. wrote:

nyjm wrote:--- sounds like a bad Black Sabbath cover band ---

I guess that comment is totally subjective, depending upon your personal opinion of Sabbath, but to me that would indicate a fairly high-quality song performed awfully. Is that what you meant?

I don't know a ton about Black Sabbath, to be honest; this just tune just struck me as in that mid-to-late seventies British Metal vein.

It sounds like a cool song at its heart, just performed too slowly, sloppily and/or without enough pulsing drive. I'd kick the BPM up a notch or two, give the bass a really fat sound that drives the whole composition and put the noise solo in the middle (shortened slightly). Give us some great fist-pumping, headbanging moments.

my favorites are

Chthonic Youth - This is actually a favorite of mine out of all the songs you two guys have done. Been listening to it a lot the last few days.

Howl - I like the singing parts most when they're at the higher notes.

King Arthur

Ripping Hammer

Weakest Suit - I've only heard/remember your solo acoustic songs. This was a surprise, and your voice sounded good in this style of singing.

Eric Y. wrote:

Ross wrote:I had hard time hearing the songs in the midst of all the interesting sounds.

Shall I assume this is why mine was omitted from your list?

I generally don't review songs with burgled lyrics.

Do you also generally refuse to acknowledge the work of Burt Bacharach or Elton John?

Lord of Oats wrote:Do you also generally refuse to acknowledge the work of Burt Bacharach or Elton John?

No, but they each had partner lyricists they worked collaboratively with.

Refusing to review certain songs suggests to me that, in a way, you're denying their legitimacy as songs. Which would be something like saying that rape isn't sex.

Lord of Oats wrote:Refusing to review certain songs suggests to me that, in a way, you're denying their legitimacy as songs. Which would be something like saying that rape isn't sex.

wow.
that is one of the most ignorant things i've heard in a long time.
so, you're saying that rape is a legitimate form of sex?
i'm pretty sure most rape victims would not classify their ordeals as sex.
violence, probably.

jeff robertson wrote:It's remotely possible I might be in, as I now have lyrics and have posted them. As insurance against the likely event that I won't make it, burglars are welcome.

It isn't quite a "worked collaboratively with" relationship, but I certainly wouldn't call it the songwriting equivalent of rape, either. Back on topic, anyone? Anyone?

Well, I generally don't review songs, so I'm perfectly content to keep arguing about rape.

The only reason I could imagine for the all the hate on lyricburgling was that it lacked consent, hence the analogy. I don't really find them to be equivalent.

Mr. Suit, why on earth do you need things to be so rigidly classified? Why must things be placed into mutually exclusive categories? There are reasons that words can be modified into descriptors. For instance, so that phrases like "sexual violence" can exist. Believe it or not, some things exhibit characteristics of some things, whilst simultaneously exhibiting characteristics of certain other different things.

I would also recommend you re-evaluate your use of the word "ignorant." I wouldn't claim not to be ignorant, but I would contend that you don't have any good reason to apply that label to me or my writing. But I think I could pretty confidently call you closed-minded, stubborn, insecure, and paranoid. I mean, I could, but I won't.

Hey, uh... so any more reviews, anyone?