The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Spud wrote:If you listen to our "What We Need More Of Is Science", you can hear that I started out getting it right (that starting early thing the King is talking about), but couldn't hold onto it as the song progressed. New that we perform it often, I have the hang of it. It's tricky.

Yeah... not coincidentally, this is right around when I started liking Octothorpe.

We've had the prosody talk here several times before... maybe I'll see if I can find one of those old convos.

i agree, and i apologize if i was being defensive. i feel, reading back, that i was.

@spintown i remember you liking the story song i did a few weeks ago about the gold rush. and i realize that it couldnt possibly be all a style thing, and i want people to understand my words, therefore something i should work on. it's hard for me to tell if its un-understandable because i know what im saying, and that's not an excuse when i have tons of other people i can ask to listen before. sorry for being a dick.

@king i never really thought of it like that, and i agree that it is not something that i really would have thought to really pay attention to, especially recording. im still pretty new to recording, and am not used to the exact precision that you are able to get on record that may be near impossible live (given my actual talent). thank you, it will be interesting to play with that concept.

@fluffy that kinda seems like the easy way out... though there is probably a time or two in my song it could be done, not to mention less jamming, and some more words... well maybe just less jamming

Generic wrote: We've had the prosody talk here several times before... maybe I'll see if I can find one of those old convos.

Well, one relatively recent one started here: http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.p ... 95#p135595
I kinda sorta started it when I reviewed LML's "Green Eleven." She didn't seem to understand my criticism, so I explained it a little farther down, and then jb added in a little extra. I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple more conversations about prosody around that time, too, but I don't feel like digging through that many review threads.

ujnhunter wrote:Thanks for all the reviews. I just wanted to say that any accent that may come across in my vocals is completely unintentional. Everyone always seems to notice it... I don't... :\ So I just wanted to say sorry if it distracts you... but I don't try to have an accent on purpose.

I think people are broadly unaware of your bi-national heritage. Your half-Canadian/half-New Englander accent could easily be mistaken for "fake British" in a variety of situations -- more so when you have a sinus infection.

sorry for being a dick.

@BBABM I didn't really think you were being one. This is the internet...you have to work harder than that to offend me. :p

that sounds like a challenge im glad we're cool. i came here to win (eventually), but mostly for the criticism and i do appreciate it, and i promise to try harder not to take things personally. im a sloppy emotional bastard, what can i say. back to the matter of prosody... i read the thread that generic posted above, and it cleared a lot up. i did in fact write the words in a way where i emphasize weird words, or only the second half of a word etc. on purpose to form a rhythm with the vocals that is different than how the words would naturally roll off the tongue. however, i could see this, combined with my horrible enunciation being confusing, and possibly losing me some votes because it sounds foreign. i think that spins main problem was my enunciation rather than my prosody.... or maybe both

ujnhunter wrote:Thanks for all the reviews. I just wanted to say that any accent that may come across in my vocals is completely unintentional. Everyone always seems to notice it... I don't... :\ So I just wanted to say sorry if it distracts you... but I don't try to have an accent on purpose.

No - it is a very understandable thing, based on the sort of music you were doing. Some music just leads to certain pronunciations.

I have that trouble all the time if I am singing a rock and roll type song - eg, when I did "Night of Broken Glass" last year. I have to make a concious decision do I sing "gl-ass" and "l-ass-t, as in the original - which sounds natural - or sing "gl-arse" and "l-arse-t" - which is how I would say it - but makes the song sound a bit funny (in that instance - I recall I went with "gl-arse"). I can't recall any examples off hand - but I am sure there are many songs I have written where I will sing with an American pronunciation of words - simply because it sounds better in the context.

Somehow Mick Jagger always gets away with it - but many Australian rock singers, especially in the 70s - used American pronunciations that really made me cringe. But, there is no escaping that rock and roll is an American art form - so occasionally concessions must be made. The same goes if you are doing British-inspired New Wave Techno Pop too I supopse.

Caravan Ray wrote:Somehow Mick Jagger always gets away with it - but many Australian rock singers, especially in the 70s - used American pronunciations that really made me cringe. But, there is no escaping that rock and roll is an American art form - so occasionally concessions must be made. The same goes if you are doing British-inspired New Wave Techno Pop too I supopse.

Like Olivia Newton John singing "chancers" to rhyme with "answers" in Suddenly from Xanadu?

Ken

These are brief, and apparently this title was a tough one.

BBABM – cute hop groove, but too repetitive. The twittery guitar and solo are distractions (too plotting and completely lacking of comparable energy of the rhythm guitar). Lyrics seem very vanilla and uninspired, and offer no hook.

BSS – I was lucky enough to spend an evening with BSS which evolved into this entry. I think the clever lyric and deadpan delivery work within the frantic, schizoid setting. Though the section changes may be pretty sudden in that Talking Heads 77 sort of way, I like the energies between them. Love the Rhodes and Glenny’s awesome guitar solo. Overall it could certainly have used a more organic, live recording, but such is the SF process. And the beer next door was yummy.

Cock – I like the spacey backing around the verse especially the effect it has coming off the opening chorus (assuming the opening was a chorus). Well set lyric in the cynical “everyone hates me, please don’t hurt me, and you’re just an asshole” genre. It works well, is very catchy.

The Elephant Choir – The kind of performance that leans heavily on the lyrics. But they don’t have the strength to elevate the song very high. This goes on far too long. I like the background yelling towards the end, where suddenly things get interesting.

The HATE Noise – love the tension between the guitar parts and drums, the evolving textures and vocal layering. Nice harmonies on the toy sax. Can’t help but think this nicely compliments my Blue Signal. Really nice job!

King Arthur – your lyrics are always top notch, with a great story and hooks. Key changes are rare around here, so you get a star for that, too. Disappointing ending, though not sure what I’d do…

Longfellow Street – sweet story, wonderful voice and delivery. Like the sparseness and simply setting. Sweet.

Mantzfield – at first I was going to skip, but the vocal delivery pulled me in. Then I got bored.

Ross Durand – beautiful delivery. Fabulous and that’s all I’ve got to say.

Suckpuppet – you have a great touch with the bleeps that bring to life the depressingly sweet lyric and carry me far away to be distracted here as I try and summarize meeting notes. Like this solo, it does what it was hired to do, I suspect. “did you believe the person I paid to tell you” just worked there. I want to wave my arms with the crowd by the end. And abhor is one of my favorite words in lyric.

Steve Durand – sappy and well done but lacking an edge. Seems a lazy work for hire. But that’s ok.

Tuur – Wow, you have broken out. I love your pleading head voice, it’s so…desperate. I hear this as a musical-break-out scene in Scrubs or maybe the Simpsons. Nicely done!

roymond wrote:BSS – I was lucky enough to spend an evening with BSS which evolved into this entry.

Dude, you were in town?!

Suckpuppet – you have a great touch with the bleeps that bring to life the depressingly sweet lyric and carry me far away to be distracted here as I try and summarize meeting notes. Like this solo, it does what it was hired to do, I suspect. “did you believe the person I paid to tell you” just worked there. I want to wave my arms with the crowd by the end. And abhor is one of my favorite words in lyric.

Aw, thanks. Kind of a strange mismatch between the review and the alternate spelling of "Sockpuppet" though. ;) I wasn't sure about the use of "abhor" but I'm glad I went with my gut and used it.

fluffy wrote:Dude, you were in town?!

Yeah, working in Oakland now and then, so it just fell together. Then there were the Jewish holidays and commitments in SF that week. I'll call when I'm back, week of the 18th.

Suckpuppet

hahaha...sorry about that!

Caravan Ray wrote: eg, when I did "Night of Broken Glass" last year.

Which I voted for yesterday due to it's extreme awesomeness, btw -- here's hopin' you win.

reve wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote: eg, when I did "Night of Broken Glass" last year.

Which I voted for yesterday due to it's extreme awesomeness, btw -- here's hopin' you win.

Where do we vote? That song was arse-um!

Edit: Ah... nevermind... I take it you got an email to vote!

ujnhunter wrote:That song was arse-um!

Thank you.

NB: that is one pronunciation I would never use under any circumstances

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The Elephant Choir: This has an interesting S.E. European flavor. Not Gipsys around the campfire, but close. I lose interest fairly early.

Josh Millard: This has a cool feel, but it seems like it's just a repeated riff/chorus -- which is kinda cool in itself. I like it. Vote.

Berkeley Social Scene: Nice sound all around. The last verse came across as an afterthought for some reason.

King Arthur: Nice guitar playing. Good sound. Not diggin' it otherwise.

Manzfield: Journey to the center of the mind with us now, as you jerk and convulse just like my arm would be doing after playing 16th notes at 200 bpm for 3 minutes, as if I even could. Starts out like a slap in the face, then it's a kick in the butt.

Tuuur: (I'm on the deck and I think my neighbor can hear this. She's out gardening in her yard. Damn!) Sorry -- it's really pretty good for what it is. We don't get much a cappella here. Good job.

Bad Boys: This is pretty cool. Tight and focused. Vox is good -- hell, everythings good. Vote.

Longfellow Street: Nice vox. The interesting meter quirks and breaks are cool. As are the lyrics. I would have liked to hear a xylophone solo in there. Vote.

Sockpuppet: Your voice sounds pretty good -- except at the end of phrases you get a little light and waver a bit. With me it's a problem of not having enough air left to finish; so more air in the lungs or more breaks for breathing. Or just give an extra push at the end. The burble at 1:00 is interesting -- for a while. Good simple lyric and choice of words for this style. Not diggin' the synth vibe, though.

The HATE Noise: The weird chords in the intro etc. need a few notes riding over the top. The flavor is crazy great. The old/new feel holds my attention like a steel glove. More old than new. Very cool. Vote.

Steve Durand: Interesting story. Vox could use autotune. But it sounds real, not superficial. Well done.

Cock: This is pretty good. Nice arrangement / production / vox. Cool lyric.The music isn't doin' it for me, though.

John the Rapist: The vocal flow suffers here and there. The lyric is cool, though. Too electronic for me.

Ross Durand: Too pretty for me. But really good. The sadness in the vox is great.

I'm always very interested in hearing how people put together their recordings, so if anyone is so inclined, please tell your story of recording this song.

Cock - I'm swirling back in time to being fifteen and digging through my friend's older brother's Depeche Mode records. Not remotely my style, but very well done.

John The Raptist - Generic drum sounds, hesitant rap, song doesn't evolve.

Josh Millard - love the feel of upright bass and piano, but they seem to get out of sync with each other before the intro is over. Intentional? Like the atmosphere. Repetitive, though.

The HATE Noise - I like the static/noise in the intro, dig the intro a lot, would have repeated that first odd climbing bit more, liked that. Rest of the chord progression kinda messes with me, doesn't go where I expect it, which is no bad thing, but seems kinda jumbly when the vocals are in. Jumbly but cool.

Bad Boys At Bat Mitzvahs - more my kind of stringband fun. Is this a band? Intro is great, sets up a nice groove, I'm liking it. Vocals work for me. Talk about how you recorded it? This one I've pulled up a few times to listen to while wandering aroudn the house. vote

Longfellow Street - us. This song started as an excuse to write and record something with a new bass. "Rhonda" is an Ergo EUB4, a four-string electric upright. www.ergoinstruments.com. Since I've never played upright, the song had to be simple to play. We'd been listening to Robinella and the CC String band do their jazzgrass thing, and that caught and stuck. Mallory came up with the melody and lyrics, and sang them at me while I tried to figure out chords. It got interesting fast, had to decide where to draw the line of trying to follow all her vocal changes with the right chords ("Yeah, yeah, add the 9 there, that matches the melody... no wait, it's harmonizing... arg, that's cool... arrrgg... that's not... arrrg") and keeping it simple enough to actually play. It was tracked in three passes on a RodeK2 set to omni. First Mal and I doing vocals and acoustic guitar together, then Cody doing muffled snare with brushes, then me on bass, ampeg 15" combo amp, mic on omni close to the speaker. No FX except for the mastering EQ, compression and leveling. You're hearin' the living room in my house.

The Elephant Choir - Like the dark feel. Reminds me of Sixteen Horsepower. Waltz time towards the end is fun. Wish I could hear the banjo better, recording is muddy and words hard to understand. Still like it a lot, I'd have fun working something like this up into a full on huge creepy band explosion. vote

King Arthur - vote

Ross Durand - I couldn't get past the lofi boomy muddy, it just doesn't work for this kind of sensitive sounding and delicate song. From what I could tell, the song is great. Recorded on iPhone or something? I love that for capturing ideas, but I've never been able to make it sound "nice". Tried!

Sockpuppet - reminds me of software pirate group intros on cracked games for my 64. Timing gets weird in the chorus. Full points for SID chip fun, but could be more musically interesting.

Mantzfield - I assume this is a band and not just one dude layering stuff? Sounds like a buncha guys playing so fast they can't pay attention to what the others are doing. Cliche too-fast-metal, nonmusical. If that's your point, cool.

Berkelyn Social Scene - Oooh, love the electric piano. Drums and guitar in the right channel drift in and out of time with each other in the verses. Vocals are a little far back, piano is considerably louder than vocals. Chorus is cool, tightens up. Like it.

Steve Durand - my mind immediately goes "I found a new friend, underneath my pillow." Something about your voice makes me think of They Might Be Giants. Hell, this whole song makes me think of TMBG in a very sweet ballady mood.

Tuur - are you doing that with your voice, or is there some odd modulation on the backing vox or delay or something? That's just weird! I kinda hate that I kinda like this. Fascinated with harmonies right now...

longfellowstreet wrote: Bad Boys At Bat Mitzvahs - more my kind of stringband fun. Is this a band? Intro is great, sets up a nice groove, I'm liking it. Vocals work for me. Talk about how you recorded it? This one I've pulled up a few times to listen to while wandering aroudn the house. vote

it's funny that you say that, because i have done the same with your song!
it is not a band, it is only me. as for recording i found a simple shuffle loop... and made it go a really long time. i first recorded one rhythm guitar track, straight through one take. i then recorded a second guitar track with just a strum on the down stroke. since i dont have a bass, i need to bring out the low strings, so i do a track of a single note riff on the eand a strings. i then went to my handy dandy A pentatonic scale and came up with a groovy little riff that is simple but catchy, and lasts for a while, as not to get too boring when i repeat it a million times. i then recorded the words, one take, straight through, hated it, re-recorded like 8 times, chose the best, and threw some compression, and reverb on it. i chose quieter drums because they were the same thing over and over again, and i didnt want it to be too annoying, or noticeable. i added a little three note thing behind the vocals, and at the end. then came the dreaded solo. i put it off as long as possible, because i really suck at lead guitar. i was supposed to have a buddy over to do a lead for me, but he is a drunk... enough said... so i just ripped a double time pentatonic riff like 10 times and chose the one where i only hit one noticeable wrong note. got the levels right again and i was done. i record on a $99 m-audio mic into my computer running the free "sessions" software that came with the mic. i use the mic to record the guitar directly from the sound hole, rather than through a pickup. i think it gives it a more natural sound. im glad that you like it, thanks for voting.

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Enter It In The Art Show wrote:Best was sockpuppet. Stevie D was tight aswell. Votes both. Pupp needs a remix with some good beats to compliment more good beats.

Funny you should mention that

__________

nice to have 50 more people than usual listening to all of the songs and voting on their favorites.

I expected Longfellow Street to win, but holy cow, what a margin!

Congratulations, and here's hoping you stick around to show us what's what many more times.