Can we please get multiple titles again?

Reist · Post by **Reist** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:48 pm

king_arthur wrote:making new music

I hope so.

jackfrost · Post by **jackfrost** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:56 am

so, i guess we should start the "can we please get a single title again?" thread now that the multiple titles aren't bringing in more votes or better reviews.

Lord of Oats · Post by **Lord of Oats** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:41 am

...or we could wait through at least two or three more cycles to see what happens, so we have a somewhat respectable amount of data. There are plenty of other factors that affect those outcomes. Many that explain the deficiency probably wouldn't be combated directly by the move to multiple-title.

You wouldn't buy a stock and start complaining that it hasn't made you any money after two weeks...especially in the middle of a recession. Or maybe you would. I don't know what you do in your personal life. The point is that we're not in a high-growth industry, the quarter isn't over yet, and the dividend hasn't been paid.

Let's not be counting the chickens when we've still got a lot of eggs on the table.

P.S. WHO ARE YOU, ANYWAY, MAN? Have you ever actually submitted a song here? If so, under what name?

jackfrost · Post by **jackfrost** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:13 am

does it matter who i am? does it matter if i haven't submitted a song to this site?
i take the time to listen to the songs each fight, and usually take some time to review them.
not everyone who submits a song reviews the fight.
a lot of "old" songfighters populate every part of the message board with a multitude of posts and are not active in submitting songs to the site.
but i do represent traffic to this site.
i download the songs.
i listen to them throughout the week.
usually, i take the time to sit down and type out reviews.
i am a fan of songfight and a fan of a lot of songfighters.
that's who i am.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:40 am

I think that does matter, but I also think it's a good thing. Having more listeners who provide unbiased reviews is a good thing (I mean, come on, we're making music for SOMEONE, right? This isn't just a production/composition circlejerk, I hope).

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:35 am

I remember back in 2003, when we were breaking the "biggest fight ever" record on a weekly basis ("Unless I Change My Mind," then "Bad Attraction," then "What We Need More of is Science," with the whole Achewood crossover thing), and no matter how many entries a fight got, there were still tons of reviews. There were 27 songs in "Bad Attraction," and plenty of reviews. [Incidentally, "Bad Attraction," in spite of its unweildly size, might be my favorite fight since I joined up.]

Flash forward four and a half years, and there seems to be a slump in reviews. The site had returned to a single-title format for a little while, and that was blamed for the lack of reviews. But we've proven in years past that we can get double-digit reviewers even when the fight size threatens on 30 songs. Why did anyone think that splitting up the fights would result in more reviews? Smaller fights, sure. More reviews, not so much.

I'm not saying that the Fightmasters can't do whatever the hell they want to do, but if the objective was to get more reviews, I see no reason to be surprised and dejected when it failed to achieve this effect. Fight size is a matter of preference. I tend to like smaller fights because they instill in me a false hope that I might win, or at least tie for second.

But if the objective is to get more and better reviews, then perhaps we should look at options for drawing in the interest of people who aren't already involved. Beg Fronalot to fight more? Give out magic "Make awesome music" pills to all fighters? Networking sites like Digg? Good old-fashioned word of mouth? Blast your favorite Songfight songs out of open windows? Or maybe we should just crossover with webcomics more often (Least I Could Do turns 5 next month, and xkcd is about to turn 2...)?

Oh well. Point is, I like short fights, and, hence, multiple titles. They don't necessarily increase the number or quality of reviews, but were they supposed to?

Post by **Spud** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:08 pm

Generic wrote:Fight size is a matter of preference.

Exactly. That's why we change things up every once in a while. Some like single titles, some like multiple. Different things appeal to different people. Whatever.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:51 pm

Spud wrote:
Generic wrote:Fight size is a matter of preference.
Exactly. That's why we change things up every once in a while. Some like single titles, some like multiple. Different things appeal to different people. Whatever.

Yes, definitely keep it spicy or we will get bored and look outside of our songfight relationship for more sizzle at some other music website. While some would argue that size matters, you still have to know how to use what you got.

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:19 pm

Spud wrote:
Generic wrote:Fight size is a matter of preference.
Exactly. That's why we change things up every once in a while. Some like single titles, some like multiple. Different things appeal to different people. Whatever.

Pretty much what I was trying to say, but condensed into twenty-six words. Thanks.

Just wanted to respond to jackfrost's implication that the reason for the format switch (other than popular demand) was to increase both the quantity and quality of reviews.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:16 pm

Generic wrote:Just wanted to respond to jackfrost's implication that the reason for the format switch (other than popular demand) was to increase both the quantity and quality of reviews.

While that may not be the reason that the fightmasters have for implementing the switch from single to multi-title format, the reason that many people in this thread gave for why they thought it would be a good idea was definitely "it should increase the quality and quantity of reviews".

frankie big face · Post by **frankie big face** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:03 pm

fluffy wrote:This isn't just a production/composition circlejerk, I hope).

Not just.

jack · Post by **jack** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:18 pm

jackfrost wrote: that's who i am.....

and not a thing wrong with that. thanks for contributing the way you do. and certainly, your opinion counts as much as anyone elses.

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:23 pm

jack wrote:
jackfrost wrote: that's who i am.....
and not a thing wrong with that. thanks for contributing the way you do. and certainly, your opinion counts as much as anyone elses.

Agreed.

rone rivendale · Post by **rone rivendale** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:01 pm

This probably isn't something that would happen or most people would even agree with but I have an idea that would increase the reviews.

Make it so people who submit reivews are PM'd a code by the fightmasters and then that code can be used to submit a vote for the fight they reviewed for. And of course those who don't review don't get a code and therefore don't get to vote.

Just an idea.

frankie big face · Post by **frankie big face** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:22 pm

Not everyone feels motivated or compelled to do reviews. Some people just want to listen to the songs and vote for their favorites. I stopped doing reviews because I got tired of having to coat everything with sugar so people's feelings wouldn't get hurt. Eventually, I got tired of listening to songs too, I guess. But it's hard to come up with a thousand different ways to tell someone that his/her crappy song isn't too bad and it's lame to have to defend your opinion of someone's song if you hate it. So now, I just tell the people whose songs I like that I like them and leave it at that.

Plus, I'm pretty sure your code idea would result in less reviews AND less votes. But you know, yeah, let's try it!

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:23 pm

Rone Rivendale wrote:This probably isn't something that would happen or most people would even agree with but I have an idea that would increase the reviews.

Make it so people who submit reivews are PM'd a code by the fightmasters and then that code can be used to submit a vote for the fight they reviewed for. And of course those who don't review don't get a code and therefore don't get to vote.

Just an idea.

I think you are overestimating how much people care about getting to vote. If you make it a bitch to vote, people will just stop voting.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:33 pm

frankie big face wrote: I stopped doing reviews because I got tired of having to coat everything with sugar so people's feelings wouldn't get hurt.

Man, I would've hated to have seen some of the reviews you have written for me before you sugar-coated them!

frankie big face · Post by **frankie big face** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:01 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:
frankie big face wrote: I stopped doing reviews because I got tired of having to coat everything with sugar so people's feelings wouldn't get hurt.
Man, I would've hated to have seen some of the reviews you have written for me before you sugar-coated them!

LOL. (I don't care if people don't say LOL anymore - you made me laugh!) Yeah, sometimes you gotta review old-school just to keep everyone on their toes. But man, back on the Dumbrella board, I was brutal and I had the time to fight with people who took issue with my comments. I'm a happier person now, I guess, so I don't get much pleasure out of that anymore.

I remember one time I said something like "This song is a prime example of why not everyone should write songs--it is almost perfect in its mediocrity." I felt a little bad after the ladies in the band yelled at me, but they were working on some kind of science-fiction rock opera and I really didn't think they should be encouraged.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:49 pm

I recently started posting songs to http://www.slicethepie.com/

You get lots of reviews (157 reviews for 6 songs so far) and they are completely anonymous and often absolutely brutal. I really like the feed back - there are enough good reviews from people who obviously 'get' what I'm doing to keep me from being suicidal - but the others keep giving me a pretty good idea what the average spotty-teenager-in-the-street thinks of my efforts too.

He is an example - a review of my Pencil Me In:

The lead singer sounds like a bear - bellie, bald, 40 year old dad trying to be cool and show that he's a real rock star inside - Well i feel sorry for his kids to have to put up with his drastically wrong imagination.

How dare they!!!! I was only 39 when I recorded that song!! And I'm not bald. I'm baldING

Reviews for my Ninja Gang ranged from:
This is awful. I think maybe it was put into the arena for a bet. The vocals are terrible and I cannot imagine anyone listening to this. There is no musical talent whatsoever. Just a distorted noise that is making my ears bleed.
and
I hated it! Just noise that wasn't very pleasant to listen to. Sounded like German rock music

to

This is lots of fun. Spiky and energetic. Like the effects and sample type additions, and the bass which provides a nice, throbbing backdrop. Kinda cool, strange little rap at the end too. Overall really enjoyable fizzy indie pop with something a bit different added in.
and
This song is absolutely bizarre, and yet it's hard to dislike. As far as this listener is concerned, there aren't enough songs in the world about Ninja Gangs. It's a very kooky tune overall, with probably no change of any commercial success, but it's fun, fairly well realised, and full of irrepresible energy. Mad, but probably all the better for it.

It is easy to only take seriously the reviews that I like!

frankie big face · Post by **frankie big face** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:02 pm

Caravan Ray wrote: How dare they!!!! I was only 39 when I recorded that song!! And I'm not bald. I'm baldING

Again, you have me laughing aloud. I'll have to check out the site. I have had similar experiences on other sites. A fav was "Frankie Big Face's (song title I can't remember) is a song that should have never left the bedroom it was written in." I don't know what horrifies me more: the review or the fact that it ends with a preposition! Nonetheless, it was not a nice thing to say about my song and I promptly downvoted all of her songs (not really).

Here's a fun review of my "Locked Box" on GarageBand.com: "i don't really dig this. the vocals are wayy to loud and annoying. the music is decent, i like the piano, a bit repetitive tho. overall this song is a little bit to annoying for my taste.. altho i felt it got more standable towards the end. the singer kinda sounds like billy joel on crack." At least he couldn't tell how bald I am.

Reist · Post by **Reist** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:49 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:I recently started posting songs to http://www.slicethepie.com/

Wow ... that place is intense. I was thinking of joining, but I thought better of it ... maybe I'll wait a year or so to sign up.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:52 pm

frankie big face wrote:Here's a fun review of my "Locked Box" on GarageBand.com: "i don't really dig this. the vocals are wayy to loud and annoying. the music is decent, i like the piano, a bit repetitive tho. overall this song is a little bit to annoying for my taste.. altho i felt it got more standable towards the end. the singer kinda sounds like billy joel on crack." At least he couldn't tell how bald I am.

Don't listen to this crap. They are delusional and also out of their head (a little crazy, too). And don't get me started about the state of mind they're in.