The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Caravan Ray wrote:As I understand it - all of the important cabinet jobs are actually held by public servants selected by the Prez, not elected people. Is that right (eg the Condi Rices and Colin Powells, and Rumsfelds etc).

Do you know who the Prez will put in his Cabinet before you vote for him - or is that sprung on you later?

The vp's standing duty is to preside over congress. Beyond that, it's to be a statesman/figurehead and yeah, to take over if the president is incapacitated.

The cabinet choices are extremely important, as are supreme court appointments (more so because they're appointed for life (which is stupid imo)). The VP pick is an insight into the kinds of choices the candidate would make once selected.

LOL:

State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to tell her the news.

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

Sober wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:

Sober wrote: McCain's pick is a pathetic, transparent grab for Hillary voters, and if I was a woman I'd be insulted. ..This pick is not about what is good for the country, it is about trying to squeeze your way through a fast-closing door.

Isn't it exactly the same as a young black dude picking an old white bloke as his VP. It's just marketing isn't it? They are just trying to cover as many demographics as possible.

I don't know if you've ever seen our political scene, but it's ALL OLD WHITE BLOKES. My point was that he didn't make an obvious 'win Ohio' pick, or Hillary (who would also have sewn up the election). From the available candidates, he selected a guy that gave him no particular advantage other than being a good public servant. His pick doesn't guarantee him the election, but it is ultimately one of the best choices possible for the US should he get elected.

You can't honestly say that Biden is within 10 levels of the pandering that Palin is.

Sure you can. I'd put in within 10 levels...maybe not within 5, but within 10. Furthermore, the fact that Obama didn't pick someone who could have sewn up the election is pretty stupid actually. Pandering or not, he could have made a way better choice. Any indication of what kind of decisions he'll make later when trying to sew up some other situation?

Experience wise, he did way better than Palin, which still makes me laugh at McCain's decision there.

Hoblit wrote:the fact that Obama didn't pick someone who could have sewn up the election is pretty stupid actually. Pandering or not, he could have made a way better choice.

I thought the same thing. He could have picked someone like Dianne Feinstein with a ton of experience that has a great track record AND knows her way around bureaucratic BS . Not only get the women voters that like Hilldog, but the Jewish community as well. If that ever came to be, I think many KKK members heads would literally explode. Awesome!

Sober wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:As I understand it - all of the important cabinet jobs are actually held by public servants selected by the Prez, not elected people. Is that right (eg the Condi Rices and Colin Powells, and Rumsfelds etc).

Do you know who the Prez will put in his Cabinet before you vote for him - or is that sprung on you later?

The vp's standing duty is to preside over congress. Beyond that, it's to be a statesman/figurehead and yeah, to take over if the president is incapacitated.

The cabinet choices are extremely important, as are supreme court appointments (more so because they're appointed for life (which is stupid imo)). The VP pick is an insight into the kinds of choices the candidate would make once selected.

Yes - that is what I thought. So why does anyone even care who the VP is? Shouldn't you be more concerned who may likely make up the Cabinet? I think I feel much more comfortable with our system where we vote for a party and know that the Cabinet will be made up of the Parliamentary Members of that party (well, at least it does in Aus and the UK - don't get me started of the intricacies of how the Westminster System works in NZ). But for all you know - Obama may get into power and suddenly give all the top jobs to the Lizard People of Zorg! Do the candidates actually tell you who may be their eventnual Ministers - or do they just mainly waffle on with the vague, popularist nonsense we hear on the evening news bites?


EDIT:
.........

Just read something in the Sydney Morning Herald about this Alaska girlie:
She fiercely opposes abortion and same-sex marriage. She supports the death penalty and the teaching of creationism in schools...she is a NRA life member and opposes environmental restrictions on drilling in Alaska.

WTF!?!?! People like this aren't still taken seriously over there are they?

Caravan Ray wrote:But for all you know - Obama may get into power and suddenly give all the top jobs to the Lizard People of Zorg!

The scariest thing is this may even be true, cept the Lizard people come from Nibiru

Caravan Ray wrote:

Sober wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:As I understand it - all of the important cabinet jobs are actually held by public servants selected by the Prez, not elected people. Is that right (eg the Condi Rices and Colin Powells, and Rumsfelds etc).

Do you know who the Prez will put in his Cabinet before you vote for him - or is that sprung on you later?

The vp's standing duty is to preside over congress. Beyond that, it's to be a statesman/figurehead and yeah, to take over if the president is incapacitated.

The cabinet choices are extremely important, as are supreme court appointments (more so because they're appointed for life (which is stupid imo)). The VP pick is an insight into the kinds of choices the candidate would make once selected.

Yes - that is what I thought. So why does anyone even care who the VP is? Shouldn't you be more concerned who may likely make up the Cabinet?

Just read something in the Sydney Morning Herald about this Alaska girlie:
She fiercely opposes abortion and same-sex marriage. She supports the death penalty and the teaching of creationism in schools...she is a NRA life member and opposes environmental restrictions on drilling in Alaska.

WTF!?!?! People like this aren't still taken seriously over there are they?

YES.

Also, it should be noted that the VP has , while unofficial, plenty of influence in cabinet choices.

To repeat: She wants creationism taught alongside evolution in public schools. CREATIONISM.

Gallup and Rasmussen completed polls today, and they show no dent in Obama's >3+ lead.

BLT, I think that picking Feinstein would have created a ridiculous amount of backlash from Clinton supporters and women in general, as we're seeing in response to Palin already. It would have been seen immediately for what it was (whether it was the true intention or not) - a transparent pandering to get women's votes.

Furthermore, the fact that Obama didn't pick someone who could have sewn up the election is pretty stupid actually.

I still disagree, because of the retarded state of our politics. If he had picked Jim Webb for example, to try and sew up the red-leaning Virginia, everyone would be going on about how Obama is obviously a slick, cynical politician who made his VP pick just to win. Typical two-faced politician, etc. I suppose you could say the Biden pick is second (or third?) level cynicism: Making the non-political pick for the sake of making the non-political pick, which makes it a political pick. And so on.

When you run a campaign based on remaining above petty politics, you must practice what you preach. As a result, at times it seems Obama is being overly cautious and slow to attack, but it is because of this restraint that this race will remain relatively civil in spite of ridiculous, retarded crap put out by both sides.

He made the Biden pick on principle, the principle of having the best possible vice president of the US. Isn't that what we want?

Sober wrote: He made the Biden pick on principle, the principle of having the best possible vice president of the US. Isn't that what we want?

If the only real job of a VP is to nominally preside over Congress, maybe cast a deciding vote and come in off the bench if the Skipper goes to the blood-bin, then yeah - an old dude who has actually been a Senator for donkey's years does seem a very sensible choice. More so certainly than Miss Congeniality.

Sober wrote:
He made the Biden pick on principle, the principle of having the best possible vice president of the US. Isn't that what we want?

If that was his goal, then he royally EFFED up. Joe Biden is NOT the best pick for VP. Far from it. He's a Hollywood puppet and Hollywood is just as bad as any other corporate out there. Maybe even worse.

Jesus Christ you're so far in the tank it's insane. You're not voting for Bob Barr, you're voting against Obama, even though he lines up almost identically issue for issue with your original pick of Hillary. There is no logical, reasonable, fact-based purpose for you to vote Barr or McCain, and you are actively arguing against your own self-interest. Your bigotry is showing.

Hoblit wrote:

Sober wrote:
He made the Biden pick on principle, the principle of having the best possible vice president of the US. Isn't that what we want?

If that was his goal, then he royally EFFED up. Joe Biden is NOT the best pick for VP. Far from it. He's a Hollywood puppet and Hollywood is just as bad as any other corporate out there. Maybe even worse.

If his goal was to have the best possible vice president, and Biden is not the best pick for VP, then who should he have picked?

Based on principle alone, who should have Obama chosen as his vice president?

Sober wrote:Jesus Christ you're so far in the tank it's insane. You're not voting for Bob Barr, you're voting against Obama, even though he lines up almost identically issue for issue with your original pick of Hillary. There is no logical, reasonable, fact-based purpose for you to vote Barr or McCain, and you are actively arguing against your own self-interest. Your bigotry is showing.

I'm not voting against Obama. If I'm voting against my registered party then I'm voting against Joe Biden.

IF by considering a vote for Bob Barr IS voting against Obama then I'd have to argue that I'm voting AGAINST Obama, Biden, McCain, and Palin.

I'm not on board with ANY of the candidates %100 but I'll agree that my ideals are probably best represented by Obama. (as just about any registered democrat) However, I can't vote for him AND Biden in good conscience. That's just how it is.

Its pretty obvious that I wouldn't vote for McCain and his pretty little sidekick either and for numerous reasons. I mean I wouldn't vote for him plus or minus Palin.

Bob Barr represents an underlining hope that I think is more important than anything else given the mess explained above. I'm not a Libertarian and probably won't ever be. However, right now his ticket seems to be making the most sense to me.

I can't apologize for the way I feel about this and I can only hope that anybody reading this can understand the logic behind my yet undecided decision. So that I don't have to further defend my integrity.

erik wrote:

Hoblit wrote:

Sober wrote:
He made the Biden pick on principle, the principle of having the best possible vice president of the US. Isn't that what we want?

If that was his goal, then he royally EFFED up. Joe Biden is NOT the best pick for VP. Far from it. He's a Hollywood puppet and Hollywood is just as bad as any other corporate out there. Maybe even worse.

If his goal was to have the best possible vice president, and Biden is not the best pick for VP, then who should he have picked?

Based on principle alone, who should have Obama chosen as his vice president?

I don't know. I haven't done the homework. Its a good thing that its not my choice to make and even better that it would be completely irrelevant anyways.

Oh. Well, if you haven't done the homework, maybe Biden IS the most principled choice for VP. Go do the homework, man! (encouraging smiley here) That way, when you say that you think Biden sucks, you'll be able to say who you think is better. (another encouraging smiley) And then people can exchange ideas and learn stuff.

erik wrote:Oh. Well, if you haven't done the homework, maybe Biden IS the most principled choice for VP. Go do the homework, man! (encouraging smiley here) That way, when you say that you think Biden sucks, you'll be able to say who you think is better. (another encouraging smiley) And then people can exchange ideas and learn stuff.

My point is that I don't HAVE to say who is better. I don't WANT to ARGUE who's better. I don't want to argue each and every candidate possibility as much as I want to point out that I disagree with the ONE that has been picked. I am only going to talk about the choices that we actually have. NOT the theoretical choices. Right off the bat I could could name a lot of candidates who (I THINK) are better but I'm not opening that can of worms.

Hey, that's cool. I just thought since you said "If [having the best possible vice president of the US] was his goal, then he royally EFFED up. Joe Biden is NOT the best pick for VP. Far from it" that you might have other people in mind who were better, and might be interested in discussing possible alternate VP choices.

You don't have to say anything. (unencouraging smiley here)

ohhhhh hoblit, he's got you there

ha! I'm not trying to "gotcha" anyone, I just misunderstood what was going on, is all.

oh but *I* am trying to gotcha hoblit. come on hobs, put up or shut up. Ron Paul for VP, right? And here's why....

[cue Hoblit]

jb wrote:oh but *I* am trying to gotcha hoblit. come on hobs, put up or shut up. Ron Paul for VP, right? And here's why....

[cue Hoblit]

Ha ha...ha ha..No.

Whether *I* have a better idea isn't even relevant in my opinion. I'm not putting up because I think its a futile exercise and will carry on another debate entirely. The VPs have been decided and I don't like the choices, not one bit. I disagree on the choice and have already stated why I don't like Joe Biden and why I think he is a bad choice. I see no point in offering another choice, it makes no difference.

I haven't decided who I'm voting for. For that matter, for the first time in long time I'm not sure if I'll even vote. The fact that it comes into question makes me ponder the thought of utilizing my vote in a way I would have never considered and even chided other for doing. I'm officially undecided as of right now.

Hoblit wrote:I'm not sure if I'll even vote

You had me until then. That, my friend, is not an option.