The Song Fight Bulletin Board

nyjm wrote: bgm
+++ yes! +++
+++ fantastic integration of the challenge: rich, dynamic and punchy +++
+++ it's a bold stylistic choice, but i like that the "stumble", especially how it pays off in the round +++
+++ not a round, a canon +++

Actually, it's a catch, which is a type of round.

frankie big face wrote:Where's the LIKE button?

Over there, in that other song recording contest where things are run objectively and you win prizes.

Manhattan Glutton wrote:Over there, in that other song recording contest where things are run objectively and you win prizes.

Sounds cool. Why aren't we all doing that one?

nyjm wrote: Adam Adamant
--- flat, over-reverb'd vox ---
--- hot uke ---
/// well, you don't shrink from the challenge, do you?///
/// you have a round, but it doesn't seem to add to the song ///
--- melody lacks prosody; tends to meander ---

Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated. I think I need to improve my mixing / mastering generally, I am very unknowledgeable when it comes to that stuff. If anyone has any good resources (websites , tutorials) I'd appreciate links.

Prosody - I had to look this up, I'm still not really sure what it means though. Is it like a lack of good rhythm? To many different rhythms? Something else?

Wow, so much talk about the LWA song. I was going to wait to address it in a full review but since it's been mentioned so many times since the results came out, I figure I might as well give my viewpoint on the whole thing.

First off, he didn't fulfill the challenge in my opinion. The chorus lacks an overlap, so it's not a round. Like FBF said, it's an interval canon. So, it got dinged for that. Then you have the lyrical content which basically went off the rails at the third verse. It went from slightly amusing song about the "architect of your demise" to a set of attacks on the contest. Last round, I dinged Jon Eric's song for his "I won a Songfight once". I kept consistant and dinged LWA for making 2 reflexive verses that make the song worthless outside of this frame. And when it went into that 2 verse rant, it lose the theme of the song too. No longer was it someone playing out someone else's demise. It was just insults strew together in hopes for some negative response, i guess or some misguided attempt at humor.

And that's all without factoring in the comments on the boards. The board stuff, whatever. If he wants to get a less anonymous opinion; I play the Sidewalk Open Stage sometimes. So does he. We can meet up one Monday, have some drinks and discuss the Nur Ein.

Ah, bummer. Thought I might've squeaked, but... enh, *gallic shrug*.

nyjm wrote: Jon Eric
+++ LEFT TURN! +++
/// the melody reminds me of a drinking song you wrote last year ///
+++ unconventional instrumentation +++
/// vocals are a little buried ///
/// only a very simple round, but appropriate to the genre ///

Thanks for the reviews! I don't recall writing a drinking song last year, though, so.... huh?

nyjm wrote: Boffo Yux Dudes
--- ho hum, sexual innuendos and homophobia ---
--- superfluous round ---

I DO regret the "gay" rhyme, both because I deplore homophobia but even worse, it was a cheap rhyme. I do, however, stand by the sexual innuendos, at full attention.

adamadamant wrote:

glennny wrote:I think it was his almost total disregard for the challenge.

Well perhaps. The challenge is such a grey area it seems unlikely that that was the reason though. A lot of people thought Frankie kind of avoided the challenge and he did pretty well.

Reviews to come, but no, there was no discernible round in his song. If it's hidden so brilliantly, then bring it out...this is a pool of volunteer judges who love this shit, but we all have our own ears and heads. It's the only one lacking a round, and I threw two yellow cards to others who were especially weak, but all other entries met the challenge head on. It's a nice arrangement and performance. It's not that clever, pleasant, or otherwise witty, although he surely thinks so. In contrast, Frankie's was one of the most blatantly challenge-fulfilling songs, leveraging one of the most universally well known rounds in a clever manner. How this could be somehow ignored baffles me. That it also ties in with the story on more than one level just makes it that much sweeter. Then there's a vocal round to boot (a weak one, but hey, it's still two-for-one Tuesday!). Then a rich groove, awesome lyrics and he got rid of last weeks' mud bath.

I don't take the challenge at 100% of grade. But it's major. On top of that are lyrics, songwriting, and effort. Oh yeah, of course performance and production play a big part for me, more so than in SF, even. Overall, there's a sense of caring about the competition. Being super clever and ambitious is great when you can pull it off. And then, biting the hand is generally not a good approach, in that it doesn't help make up for anything lacking. But each song is its own entity when it's graded, and then I have to somehow stack them atop one another. That said, I put Snappy & Floyd up pretty high, though some seem to feel they were in similar territory. In this round the three bottom were pretty clear to me, and the 5 or 6 top were as well.

Congrats and condolences.

Wow! Great job everybody. I am so excited to hear what the survivors will bring to the table next week...

Generic wrote:

nyjm wrote: bgm
+++ not a round, a canon +++

Actually, it's a catch, which is a type of round.

I stand corrected and will edit.

adamadamant wrote: Prosody - I had to look this up, I'm still not really sure what it means though. Is it like a lack of good rhythm? To many different rhythms? Something else?

Prosody has many meanings depending on the context, and I think my definition is a little idiosyncratic.

One of the best approximations/definitions I've found is here.

When I say "prosody" in the realm of music, I mean the rhythmic pattern and pure vocal sound (especially the consonants) of the lyrics. If you pared away the instruments and even an overt melody, you'd be left with prosody. Good rap has excellent prosody: it has a complex rhythm that you can still follow while it creates novel but memorable rhymes and phonetic associations. To be more precise:



Ani Difranco's songs also often have wonderful prosody that doesn't fit into the usual sing-songy-ness of pop songs.



Good prosody doesn't have to be rapid-fire, but it's always clear and compelling.

Noah's definition is in the ballpark, but not a version of the definition of "prosody" I've ever heard from anyone else.

Prosody, strictly speaking, is the pattern of stressed an unstressed syllables in speech, poetry, or lyrics. Every song with lyrics therefore has prosody, but if the stressed words don't fit the melody, it could be said that the song has "bad prosody."

Prosody is also the broad category of the study of rhythmic patterns in words, so if you're talking about whether a line is iambic pentameter, anapestic tetrameter, or dactylic hexameter, then you're discussing prosody. We has a long thread dedicating to talking about this stuff a while back, and I'll see if I can dig it up for you.

EDIT: I found two threads, neither one specifically about prosody, but both containing significant discussion about it.

http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.p ... 95#p135595

http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.p ... it=prosody

nyjm wrote: Genevieve Johnson/Jones and the Chiefs

+++ i was about to down-grade this as too self-referential

Huh?!?! Self referential!?!?! How can it be self referential? I am not Walter Burly Griffin and I do not even live in Canberra. There is no self reference whatsoever. Hell - I've only ever been there once.

nyjm wrote: /// plays somewhat loose with the idea of a "Round" ///

Recording a round as per the challenge is ""playing loose"?!?!?!?

WTF?!?!?!
---this review---

(but of course - thanks for making the effort in the first place )

Generic wrote:

nyjm wrote: Jon Eric
+++ LEFT TURN! +++
/// the melody reminds me of a drinking song you wrote last year ///
+++ unconventional instrumentation +++
/// vocals are a little buried ///
/// only a very simple round, but appropriate to the genre ///

Thanks for the reviews! I don't recall writing a drinking song last year, though, so.... huh?

I couldn't hear your song without thinking of the greatest little boozer and Sally MacLennane:

nyjm wrote:bgm
+++ yes! +++
+++ fantastic integration of the challenge: rich, dynamic and punchy +++
+++ it's a bold stylistic choice, but i like that the "stumble", especially how it pays off in the round +++
+++ not a round, a catch +++

Thanks!
Yeah, a catch is a round. After not being able to think of a way to sing the same thing over and over that wasn't dead boring, I had the idea to do one when I read the Wiki page on "rounds" that was linked at the beginning of this thread.
From that page:
A catch is a round in which a phrase that is not apparent in a single line of lyrics emerges when the lyrics are split between the different voices. Sometimes the catch is obscene, as in the 1st Earl of Mornington's catch of 1774, "See the bowl sparkles" in which, at bars 5-8 the different parts sing and hold, successively, the words "see", "you", "end" and "tea" which are innocuous in the context of each part separately but clearly spell out "cunt" in performance (no 200 in The Aldrich Book of Catches (1989)).
Heh.
By the time I started thinking it might be a bit corny I'd already spent so long figuring it out, which was a bastard, so I was already locked into it.

Thanks to people who have reviewed so far!
I got a few songs into a review but just haven't had the time to finish.
How do you people do it?

bgm wrote:How do you people do it?

Be unemployed. Have an indulgent spouse. Have good speakers (or headphones) and a lot of free time

nyjm wrote: The Chocolate Chips
/// bum buh rump pa pa pum: your round sounds like "The Little Drummer Boy" ///

I noticed this similarity to "The Little Drummer Boy" after I was listening back while mixing, but by that point it was too late to change it up.

Next time I'm going to rip off "Wish You A Merry Christmas." Love that tune.

I'm not crazy am I? We should actually be last in alphabetical order? It doesn't matter, really, but for some reason it's screwing with me. Also, Rabid was robbed! A ten minute entry didn't get the boot? This year is weird already.

[error error error]

WAIL (and before the final scores were totted up). IAAC.

Adam Adamant - vocals are mixed a bit quitely, maybe. A bit repetive by 1.45, maybe. It's all maybe. Yeah, i think the ukulele part is a bit under developed - not a bad song, just a bit wet, in all. In a manly way of course ...

AAD - There's a lot going on here by a minute in I really like. I am hoping it all clicks into place. "the work of an honest man" is so Frank Black it hurts, in a good way. Nearly 5 minutes is a dangerous game to play with somone like me who has a massively short attention span. I think that my initial impression stands, namely that lots of interesting parts here but not really linking up for me.

BGM - Now you have something to live up to, based on last time out. Sorry, but if you raise the bar, the bar is yours to drop, right? This is pretty, but I'm not engaging yet. Yup that's definitely a round, but I am not still feeling this than any more an exercise. Beautiful but empty.

BYD - Apart from the "haha! Rude words! isn't being gay funny?" embarrassment, I actually like this weird clash of electro & Jazz. I do feel like I got into hot tub time machine. That's not a bad singing voice, and I like the variety on last time out. But at heart I am struggling with the pointless use of the word "gay". Maybe that's because I am.

CC - Bleh. Did the title encouraged indulgence? This is pretty bland, and possibly the first chocolate chips song I have heard that didn't excite me in one way or the other. Defiitely met the challenge, mind.

Chris Coggett - Fuck Simon & Garfunkel, right? But a well-written song that met the challenge, so i can't be too tough on the judging. However I am spectacularly tempted to skip this at 1.50 - take from that what you will

DJ Ranger Den - some lovely harmonies in here. Proper round-ing going on here, I think (though I'm no expert). All very bluesy and emotive, but I am not attached to the destination particularly. I think I could cut 'n' paste last time's review. Nothing here that I'll be humming while I shave tomorrow. That said, it doesn't fail to meet requirements. Is that a compliment? I am not sure,

Frankie Big Face - organ for the win, obvi. Eat my goal! (obscure UK reference) Could do with a bigger chorus, maybe. It feels a little ... default for me. That said those BVs are great. And CR has a point in terms of reference points, but it made me laugh and I am nothing if not contrary, so I like. Booker G and the MGs spring to mind. Not a great song but not a bad one. Overall the main melody is just not that strong, for me.

GJ - is this written for *me*? Well, I love it. While repeating the word "round" doesn't *really* count as a round, it works for me. So stupid, it's clever. I don't love Canberra, mind. Oh OK i take back the round comment. Fair dos, I will definitely listen to this again, if only for the camp value

Gooey - I really like the chord sequence. I read the words before hearing the song, and I took an anti-democratic interpretation from it (probably wrong, all I can say if so is - maybe you want to consider the danger of how your abstract message comes across to idiots like me) - This is a massivley catchy song that doesn't outstay its welcome, but my own prejudice / interpretation is stopping me putting it top. That's likely my problem.

Jo Ann - This is real pretty, a little theatrical in performance for my tastes. Not much to say, except I hope you don't get voted out. I want to hear more.

Jon Eric - If I wanted to hear Sober .... Also i *hate* the harmonica. What is the point of this instrument? It's all good, and everything, but I feel nothing apart from admiration at the arrangement.

LWA - Why would you punch a dead man in the face? Waste of energy. Could you be wittier? Apparently not. Other than the aggression, there is nothing here than a prettily performed but shockingly lazy, empty fragment.

MG - Ummm, this is fucking fantastic.

Merisan - oh that was almost too short to realise how lovely it was. I was like 'blah, got distracted by something else, and then where has the lovely song gone? I really like this! hooray! I thought I was just a "merisan" hater. Apparently I'm not.

Oyster Catcher - vez pretty and all. At 3 mins, did I miss something?

RG - I kind of knew it was you without checking! A little thin in the arrangement. I think I missed the round. Not much else to say. Sorry, man. I love the Residents Second listen to see if it's in the music - it's "Baybel" not "babble". The round is in the music, right? It's too subtle for someone as ill educated for me! it's actually a good little song but I am unsure ....

RD - Why does a staircase have to go somewhere? Nice percussion. I like the tune much more than round zero - it's catchier.

Sausage - I can't quite nail the 80's reference I want to make - which is a compliment. Maybe an under-arranged very late period SoM. The solo is very welcome. The round doesn't work that well, in relation to everything else. I think you could varied up there by dropping everything else. The song would have stood it, at very least. Possibly a good 30 seconds too long. But definitely a step up on last time for me.

S & F - Not very snappy and a bit too much (Pink) Floyd - the backing track doesn't engage me, so for me there's too much stress on the (not so clever) words. When you say at 2 minutes "the point I'm getting to" the point is you should already have got there. If I didn't have an obligation, I would have stopped listening then, and missed the catchy-ish chorus. I certainly have no intention of losing another 10 minutes of my life listening again. In other words, point made, and acknowledged, but was it really worth the effort? I hope so.

IK - good bass line! I'm not sure which manchester post-punk you're listening to, but I don't mind as this is very pleasant. The quiet vocals make me hear rounds where there aren't any - a good little song.

Wreckdom - hell, i think I love this. Does this make me a bad person? B-52s on acid. I don't want to be stretching that comparsion three rounds in a row.

WSA - Well done getting the round out of the way early! There's something weird going on with the tempo to these ears - are we jumping the electric fence to progland this early on? Ah what do I know? it's pretty enough but I am slightly craving a punk rock explosion around 1.45. Which I know isn't coming.

John Eric- thanks for the feedback
"you can take some tough love, right?" Tough love yes; honesty always, recommendations on how to do better, absolutely. Mean or vague I don't handle so well, the former hurts and the latter is confusing.
Your song just wasn't very good. The recording quality was lo-fi, but not in a compelling way.
I use Pro-Tools and a m-audio mike; I started doing songs for Spintunes in June of 2010 with nothing but a Logitech headset and Audacity. I had never written any music before then, just did parody songs to established tunes. Trust me, the quality of things has gone way up. Now I even know what this thing called "clipping" is, and how to stop doing it! No professional recording studio, just my computer room.
"The instrumentation was cheap-sounding." It was all done with the instrument programs in ProTools, which is a lot like Garage Band. I don't really play any instrument, you see. Took me about 6 hours to figure out how to create a round and what notes would sound ok looping against each other. I only wrote it in the key of "C" because those are the easy chords for me to figure.
"Your voice is okay, and so were the lyrics, but they weren't anything special."
If the only thing I need to worry about is coming up with a tune and lyrics, I find it easy. If I have to do my own accompaniment- I tend to make things REALLY simple so I can figure out the notes. That is why I prefer to work with someone who can play something. I've been taking voice lessons since January; I think that the key of C is too low in general for me to sing in. I am trying to figure out the transcribe feature in Pro-Tools, and when I do I hope to be able to write songs in C and more them up automatically to notes in my range. I can reach a high D easily, and up to a G if my teacher twists my arm a little.
"Overall, there was no reason to recommend your song over any of the others in the fight."
Fair enough. If you have any other suggestions on improvements or a friend who plays but doesn't write and would like to work with someone, pls let me know. Thanks!