OK, we know who won (or: Does God exist?)

[j$]

But the fundamentals of the faith are not judgmental at all. Jesus probably would have hung out in gay bars. The "sinners" (shunned by the Jewish leaders) of the time that he actually did hang out with were not any less controversial.
-craig

Agrred, totally. I was trying to put distance between Religion, and using Religion as a justification for presenting moribund 'moral issues' as a fait a complis.

I have a tat too. But never had any desire for more than one. I am not what I wear, or some such

J$

[c hack]

Or maybe God does indeed hate fags. He's never spoken that highly of me

I know you're joking around, but the idea that God hates anything is so far off the map it pisses me off. God is beyond hate and love; he's beyond anything we can comprehend. If we could comprehend him, we wouldn't be on this earth in the first place.

Don't even get me started on those idiots that argue over whether God is a man or a woman.

[fluffy]

Is God the empty space inside an atom?

Personally, I'm an atheist who is open to the notion that religion is useful as a moral framework for people who can't see a bigger picture and so don't see why it's important to not hurt other people, and that God is just a different interpretation to the laws of physics.

[Leaf]

Are they serious???

I'm sorry but that's just rude.

Oh yeah, by the way , Hoblit, SIDE ARGUEMENT? Dude, that "side argument" is what spawned this whole physics shit...which isn't fun by the way, if you spent physics class playing "asshole" in the cafeteria. I was the only person in the history of G.C.I. highschool to get a lower grade in phyics the second time around. what can I say, he was a funny teacher. very entertaining, and some hot girls were in that class.

I'd also like to point out that if someone does something to you, and you are a victim ("I was a sex slave" is not a choice... I HOPE!!!) that's a whole other sidebar.


Ok. get back to your braniac babblings.

[erik]

The Bible is... rude?

[HeuristicsInc]

open to the notion that religion is useful as a moral framework for people who can't see a bigger picture and so don't see why it's important to not hurt other people, and that God is just a different interpretation to the laws of physics.

That would imply that those of us who are religious are somehow less intelligent than the rest of you "enlightened ones." I think we understand how not to do bad things.
I'm not gonna go off on this, but ... sheesh.
-bill

[fodroy]

the shrimp site, at the bottom of the page, admits that it's a parody.

[Jim of Seattle]

open to the notion that religion is useful as a moral framework for people who can't see a bigger picture and so don't see why it's important to not hurt other people, and that God is just a different interpretation to the laws of physics.

That would imply that those of us who are religious are somehow less intelligent than the rest of you "enlightened ones." I think we understand how not to do bad things.
I'm not gonna go off on this, but ... sheesh.
-bill

People who are religious in a bad way will say "I have this book here that tells me not to do bad things. If you don't read this book, then you are bad, even if you have decided not to bad things anyway." For them what matters is where the idea of not doing bad things came from, rather than the idea of not doing bad things in the first place.

[bz£]

Let's see... also, Schrödinger?s Cat: ... The only way the theory could possibly apply to an actual cat is if the cat were traveling pretty close to the speed of light, in which case I'm pretty sure we could assume it's dead.

You have apparently never met my cat, who moves pretty quickly when you pick up a can of treats and shake it a few times. This highly scientific experiment is easily repeatable in a controlled environment, and she has survived every single time.

[Leaf]

The Bible is... rude?

I know your too smart for that!


Of course it is.



(pinch the tail, suck the head).

[fluffy]

open to the notion that religion is useful as a moral framework for people who can't see a bigger picture and so don't see why it's important to not hurt other people, and that God is just a different interpretation to the laws of physics.

That would imply that those of us who are religious are somehow less intelligent than the rest of you "enlightened ones." I think we understand how not to do bad things.
I'm not gonna go off on this, but ... sheesh.
-bill

Touchy.

But seriously, boil down the Bible. It's pretty much a big morality play which says:

- Don't kill people (even if they're doing something wrong, 'coz God will kill them if they are)
- Don't do these things which will make you sick and die, because we don't immediately understand it so it must be a sign from God not to
- Have babies and teach them these rules

It seems like religion's only intended purposes are to try to explain the universe and to set up an implied reward/punishment system to tell people not to be a dick to each other, and it primarily does the first part to justify the second part (and IMO, science does a much better job of trying to figure out how the universe works for the purpose of sheer knowledge).

If there's some other reason to believe in God(s) that I'm missing, then feel free to enlighten me.

[erik]

because you want to

[fluffy]

Okay, that's valid. Also a valid reason for people believing that they're really fairies or dragons or reincarnated anime characters.

Valid doesn't necessarily mean "good" though.

[starfinger]

If there's some other reason to believe in God(s) that I'm missing, then feel free to enlighten me.

I think that you're referring to the Old Testament again. Judaism is probably not a good fit for you.

Jesus didn't show up to enforce a list of rules. The resounding message of the New Testament is that our existence is much bigger than the time our bodies will be alive on this planet. That we are spritual beings that were created and put here, and that our creator loves us and wants a relationship with us.

We are spiritual beings, but our human experience is so grounded in the physical world around us that we as people have grown increasingly closed off to that aspect of our lives.
This is why the existence of God is debatable.

Here's a reason to believe in God: Your spirit has been awakened, and you have developed a real, thriving relationship with him.

-craig

[Hoblit]

The Bible is... rude?

Absolutely.

It speaks of violent death, wars, bloody sacrafice, and incest just to name a few. Some people find those subject matters rude in most books they read. I mean, one dude's daughters PLAN out debauchery by formulating a plan to get their father drunk in order to have sexual intercourse with him. (theres a logical reason for this even?) Isn't that HOT?

The Bible RAWKS...

Don't even get me started on Revelations.

[Hoblit]

open to the notion that religion is useful as a moral framework for people who can't see a bigger picture and so don't see why it's important to not hurt other people, and that God is just a different interpretation to the laws of physics.

That would imply that those of us who are religious are somehow less intelligent than the rest of you "enlightened ones." I'm not gonna go off on this, but ... sheesh.
-bill

If there's some other reason to believe in God(s) that I'm missing, then feel free to enlighten me.

yeah, that first bit was a bit condescending. And then you went and boiled down the Bible to an adult comic book.

There are plenty of reasons to believe in God... if you need to be enlightened... go to church. You either get it, or you don't.

[fluffy]

Well, obviously I don't. But hey, considering I've spent most of my life trying to fend off a bunch of religious sorts who were always trying to convert me to their particular brand of reading an old piece of science fiction, I don't much care if I've upset anyone with my extremely-rare bit of atheistic proselytization while simply stating the way I feel about religion.

I'm open to people having their own beliefs, as long as they're open to me having mine. For someone to tell me in no uncertain terms that I need to "have faith" or "open my mind to the possibilities" or whatever is at least as bad as me telling people that I think their gospel is a powerful allegory for why you should behave in a way which should just be common sense anyway.

[Adam!]

Fluffy: I like your brian.

Also Richard Feynman is seven kinds of awesome.

[starfinger]

Fluffy,

I don't know if you're replying to what I said or not there, but I wasn't trying to tell anybody to do anything. You asked for a reason to believe in God.

-craig

[erik]

Well, obviously I don't. But hey, considering I've spent most of my life trying to fend off a bunch of religious sorts who were always trying to convert me to their particular brand of reading an old piece of science fiction, I don't much care if I've upset anyone with my extremely-rare bit of atheistic proselytization while simply stating the way I feel about religion.

I'm open to people having their own beliefs, as long as they're open to me having mine. For someone to tell me in no uncertain terms that I need to "have faith" or "open my mind to the possibilities" or whatever is at least as bad as me telling people that I think their gospel is a powerful allegory for why you should behave in a way which should just be common sense anyway.

Did someone here tell you that you needed to have faith, or open your mind to the possibilities? All of a sudden you're stating your opinion that other people's reasons for believing something aren't very good.

[fluffy]

Hoblit did (specifically, he said that I needed to go to church to find a reason to go to church), and before that Starfinger got offended over me stating my opinion regarding religion. And before that this entire conversation was based on the merit of having a theocratic government in a country which is supposed to have an agnostic government. And before that, PinV told me that I couldn't discount the effectiveness of a discredited wine-aging device without actually trying it myself.

[Leaf]

Pinch the tail, suck the head.



Too bad that wasn't a song fight title.

So... are we still on who won the election here? I think this thread needs a retitle... I mean, It'd be cool to move the whole religion/politics to a new thread without that ridiculous poll glaring at me for the next four years, but JOS might get offended if we buggered off to a different thread so...