The Song Fight Bulletin Board

rdurand wrote:

sdurand wrote:

Lunkhead wrote: Hmmm... how is 15/8 different from a bar of 4/4 followed by a bar of 7/4?

Well, that only adds up to 11/4 which is fewer beats.

The top number is the number of beats in a measure. The bottom number is what type of note equals one beat.

So, 15/4 would be the same as 15/8. You would just be using one quarter note per beat vs. one eighth note per beat.


Steve

Except that it's contextual. I think the most likely reason to call a measure 15/8 would be if you're playing a two measure lick in 4/4 and then in one measure you play something the same, or similar that is one 8th note shorter. ito call it 15/4 would be different. It might make more sense to make it a measure of 4/4 and a measure of 7/8, but 15/8 could potentially make sense. If you make it 8/4 and 7/4 you imply that it moves into a sort of "half-time" feel, which may not be the case. By the same token, a measure of 7/4 could also be thought of as a measure of 3 and a measure of 4. It most cases it comes down to context and ease of notation.

I'm taking JR at his word that it is 15/8. That is not the same as adding two different measures together. And it is functionally equivalent to 15/4. It's only in how you notate it that it would be any different.

Steve

Geez, people. It's only important when you're trying to jump someone else in to playing your fever-dreamed multiple time-signatured composition

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:Geez, people. It's only important when you're trying to jump someone else in to playing your fever-dreamed multiple time-signatured composition

[abnoxious 6-year-old tone]Lunkhead started it!![/abnoxious 6-year-old tone]

Steve

rdurand wrote:[][abnoxious 6-year-old tone]Lunkhead started it!![/abnoxious 6-year-old tone]

That's funnier than you know, for reasons yet unrevealed.

And fuck, isn't anyone going to bounce in and out of 1 in all these posted time signature floormaps? Heh.

Regarding 15/8:

1) If the basic pulse of the meter is a quarter note and you are just dropping an eight note somewhere, it is most likely the equivalent of a 4/4 bar followed (or preceded) by a bar of 7/8. In that case, the only reason to write it in 15/8 is to sound cool to your friends because it's much more difficult to read and therefore contradicts one of the main goals of metric organization which is to facilitate communication of the idea to someone else. For those keeping score, this quarter note-based 15/8 would be an example of simple meter, where the beat is divided into two equal parts.

2) If the basic pulse of the metter is a dotted quarter note and you have 5 beats per measure, then it truly is 15/8. This would be an example of compound meter where the beat note (in this case a dotted quarter note) is divided into three equal parts. (Think "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" in 9/8 or a slightly up tempo "Greensleeves" in 6/8.) It's common to think a time signature like 15/8 has 15 beats in a measure and the eighth note gets one beat. That's really not true and you won't find a conductor making 15 extremely fast motions with his hands or a normal person tapping his foot 15 times during a measure of 15/8. In cases of compound meter (3/8, 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc.), divide the top number by 3 and you'll get the number of actual pulses or beats per measure.

3) There is one more possibility and that's if there is some unequal groupings of the eighth notes that eliminates steady beat. For example, if the eight notes are grouped like this: 2+2+2+3+3+3 with accents on the first of each group, you could probably call it 15/8. (Brubeck's Blue Rondo à la Turk is in 9/8 with groupings of 2+2+2+3.) But even in this case, I would probably write the meter as a measure of 3/4 followed by a measure of 9/8 for ease of reading.

Honesty, I can't remember ever reading or hearing a measure of 15/8 that wasn't compound (see #2 above). However, I do recall one instance of 15/16 in a Steve Vai song called "Little Green Men." In that case, the 15/16 bar was a repeat of a preceding measure of 4/4 with one sixteenth note excised.

You are all frightening me and this is rapidly becoming like maths...



...seriously though, I never realised it was such a complicated process, but you live and learn!

Has anyone been having difficulty with the meaning of the phrase Brownie Points. As I look on the web, I see that it can be a bit muddled.

Heh. I goofed. It's actually in 17/8 ... sorry to all who tried to explain what 15/8 is! 8) Firstly - it's just easier to write out 17/8 instead of describing all the little bits involved to make the signature. It's played on drums the first time through like a bar of 9/8 with a bar of 8/8 attatched. If you want to get picky, (as it seems you do), that is just like a bar of 9/4 with a bar of 8/4 attatched - it just seems to feel like it's in x/8 time - as Steve mentioned, it's only how you notate it ... all I would have to do is cut my BPM in 2 to make it into a x/4 signature. That's the easiest way I can describe it. I suppose if you listen to the guitars only, it's in 3 bars of 9/16 followed by a bar of 7/16. As you have probably noticed, that adds up to a tidy 34/16 - or an easier number ... 17/8! At the end, I just play a simple 4/4 (8/8 ) rock beat through the same riff, but as I keep going, every 4 progressions the riff ends up right where it started. (with the beat I'm doing, it sounds like it ends up where it began at bar 2, but it only truly hits the downbeat of the click track on bar 4).

I can't believe I just analyzed my song like that ... I spend too much time around here.

So it turns out that my song is one measure of 164/4 followed by a measure of 42/4 with a final measure of 161/4.



Steve

It's probably actually in 367/4, and only one measure long, which means it never really changes. Start over.

"Hi!" to everyone who remembers me and "Hi, I'm Tawny. I am closely linked to one of the fighters and I used to do a bunch of cover art. I claim no musical talent." to everyone else.

I just wanted to quickly say that I am loving the first two rounds and they have been streaming on my work computer all day (how IT must love me).

And maybe I'll submit some cover art here and there if you're looking for some for future rounds. Brownie Points was so disturbingly good that I don't want to take it away from Mr. Garkfunkel unless he gets swamped.

nur ein!

jimtyrrell wrote:It's probably actually in 367/4, and only one measure long, which means it never really changes. Start over.

Better than 4/4 sandwiched by split-seconds of 0/4 (ooh, tempo change?).

Tawny wrote:And maybe I'll submit some cover art here and there if you're looking for some for future rounds.

Yes, please! I'd love some Tawny art.

By all means, Tawny, please do! I always enjoy your cover art. And it'll give Niveous a little piece of mind... ahem, peace of mind knowing that he doesn't have to rely solely on the nightmare soup of my output

Disturbing, hmmm, I think I like that

Well... I'm out.

Seriously? That sucks.

That's how the cool kids lose Nur Ein.

Post redacted.

Just thought I'd throw out some popular songs with cool time signatures or cool time sig changes:

Rush: Tom Sawyer mostly in 4/4 but then has the 7/8 riff that leads to the solo section.

Rush: Jacob's Ladder- mostly in 5/4 but then has the beautiful ending jam in 6/8-7/8

Peter Gabriel- Solsbury Hill- Excellent 7/4 song.

Jethro Tull: Living in the Past- 5/4
Sufjan Stevens : All Good naysayers- 5/8

The Beatles: We Can Work it Out- in 4/4 most of the song then changes to 3/4 for the "..fussing and fighting my friend"

Radiohead: Let Down- has that gamelon where the glock is doing a 10/4 over the 4/4 of the song

King Crimson: Frame by Frame- has the gamelon of 7/8 over 6/8 which dances through many other time sigs as well.

Zipline: Wedding Song- 4/4 to 5/4 to 6/8 to 7/8

Calfborg wrote:Well... I'm out.

That sucks. I know I haven't rated your songs highly so far this year - but you were the standout performer in last years Nur Ein, for mine.

glenny wrote: Just thought I'd throw out some popular songs with cool time signatures or cool time sig changes:

Somebody has vandalised your post. They have removed whatever "cool" things you had and replaced them with Rush, Peter Gabriel, Jethro Tull and King Crimson.

Caravan Ray wrote: Somebody has vandalised your post. They have removed whatever "cool" things you had and replaced them with Rush, Peter Gabriel, Jethro Tull and King Crimson.

Blasphemy!