The Song Fight Bulletin Board

NeilThrun wrote:

erikb wrote:Why don't they accept this as a ticket to fuck around? Because if you believe that repenting is a condition to getting into Heaven/forgiveness, then fucking around goes completely against that. What do you think repent means?

Id have to disagree, repenting requires that you have done something wrong. So I go fuck some men, kill some people, abort some feutus and such and then I go confess my sins and say that'll i'll never do it again. BLAH BLAH BLAH. Whats to stop it from becoming a cycle of sin,repent,sin,repent and so forth?

When you used the phrase "fucking around" before, context implied that you were referring to someone who lives a life of constant sinning. That's what I meant when I co-opted your phrase. Of course, previous sins are necessary for repentance. But that is not what I was talking about, and that isn't what you were talking about.

When I asked before, I wasn't being rhetorical. Do you really think that "repent" means to say the word "sorry"? I can find no dictionary willing to reduce the word to this shadow of its actual meaning. Every definition I've seen includes something about being regretful for the things you have done. To actually have a plan in place to recommit a previous sin is completely at odds with feeling regret for commiting the sin in the past. Why would you plan on doing something again if you regretted doing it before? Fucking around in the sense of "sin, repent, repeat" is completely at odds with repentence.

NeilThrun wrote:Some Christian dude goes and supports the war, hell even kills some Iraqi millitants. He says its for the greater good, and repents and stuff. Essentially his actions were alright because Jesus forgives all of us.

Somebody else goes and commits a sin, lets say homosexuality, the Christian Dude from before yells at him and says that he can't do that. Christian Dude gets Christian Politician to ban homosexuality because its immoral.

Why does it matter to you that Christian Dude yells at Gay Dude? Does Christian Dude yelling at him matter at all? Well, it's rude to yell at someone. But aside from that, assuming that homolove is a sin, God is either going to forgive him or not, regardless of how much yelling Christian Dude does. Christian Dude yelling at a gay guy is a red herring, and has nothing at all to do with what you were talking about before: sin, repentence and forgiveness.

I don't think that laws should be changed to reflect religious ideals, but that has nothing to do with sin, repentence and forgiveness.

YOU KNOW HOW FRED PHELPS SAYS THE HURRICANE IN NEW ORLEANS WAS CAUSED BY GOD'S WRATH?

HE'S WRONG. IT WAS ACTUALLY CAUSED BY THE JAPS NEW WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. PEOPLE, I THINK THIS GUY IS ON TO SOMETHING.

This is getting pointless, you understand what I'm saying. If you don't I'm sick of the arguement.

NeilThrun wrote:This is getting pointless, you understand what I'm saying. If you don't I'm sick of the arguement.

I really don't. The best that I can come up with is that you seem to think that Christianity is logically inconsistent because you've misunderstood what repentance is. It's not logically inconsistent. You haven't figured out some Christian loophole that completely unravels the fabric of their religion.

erikb wrote: The best that I can come up with is that you seem to think that Christianity is logically inconsistent because you've misunderstood what repentance is.

People don't usually say nice things to jackasses, but I like your posts. They are concise and convincing/explanatory.

So, you like Erik's posts but think he's a jackass?

I like his posts for the same reason, but I don't think he's a jackass. He's blunt. I like that.

Leaf wrote:So, you like Erik's posts but think he's a jackass?

I like his posts for the same reason, but I don't think he's a jackass. He's blunt. I like that.

People who are straightforward and usually right end up sounding mean. That's okay, if you're being straightforward and usually right. It's okay to sound mean.

I did not say, "If you are a being a jackass, then I like you."

I said:
1. People do not usually say nice things to jackasses
2. Something nice.

Not exactly. You said "People don't usually say nice things to jackasses, but (indicating exception to the previous statement) I like your posts."

Anyway, back on topic, I still think Pat Robertson is a jackass.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand scene.

ah sorry man, misread that actually. My mistake... but hey... whoopsy. I missed the "to".

and ... THAT's scene.

erikb wrote:

NeilThrun wrote:This is getting pointless, you understand what I'm saying. If you don't I'm sick of the arguement.

I really don't. The best that I can come up with is that you seem to think that Christianity is logically inconsistent because you've misunderstood what repentance is. It's not logically inconsistent. You haven't figured out some Christian loophole that completely unravels the fabric of their religion.

Oh, is that how we play this game? I call it quits and you call me logicaly inconsistent? Ill try one more time to explain my thoughts. I'd prefer we end this dialouge in a mutal understanding of each others views, as opposed to one of us taking the high road and proclaiming ourselves correct.

Many (NOT ALL) Christians excuse they're sinfull behavior by telling themselves that as long as they repent it means nothing. While they still go around telling other people what they are doing is wrong, regardless if the people have repented or even believe theyre action is sinfull. Too many christians use sinning and repenting as an unending cycle to excuse poor behavior(whether the behavior is actually wrong or just sin by Gods terms is irrellevant).
How this applies to the christian right(and when I say christian right, I dont mean christians who are republican, I mean the republicans who go around spout what God would want and that things should be a certain way because of Theology) is as follows. They excuse war, and infact repent the act of murder, by saying it's for the greater good. That they are making the world a better place. Then they go around trying to tell me I can't marry a man, or I cant have an abortion and so on. Shouldn't it be legal for me to do these activities as long as i repent? Why does the christian right feel the need to increase the punishment of God's laws. God already punishes those who disobey. What is the purpose?

Is this logic conssistent? Because please, continue to pick it apart until it satisfies your logic.

NeilThrun wrote:Shouldn't it be [ok] for me to [marry a man] as long as i repent?

I'm impressed at how tenaciously you stick to your incorrect definition of "repenting" That level of commitment is hard to find these days.

I'm a christian... and I think it's ok for men to marry...

I don't see any reason to repent for that.

I think that the argument here lacks the understanding of the cusion provided by the support of others.

Not every Christian abides to every other Christian's by laws. If this was true, why would there need to be more than one church?

Go ahead, go crazy... Jesus wrote a blank check. But you know...he could come back at any moment to cash it.

Hoblit wrote:Go ahead, go crazy... Jesus wrote a blank check.

hahaha. oh god. wasn't that a movie with mccauly caulkin?

NeilThrun wrote:Oh, is that how we play this game? I call it quits and you call me logicaly inconsistent? Ill try one more time to explain my thoughts. I'd prefer we end this dialouge in a mutal understanding of each others views, as opposed to one of us taking the high road and proclaiming ourselves correct.

I never once called you logically inconsistent. I said that you think that Christianity is logically inconsistent.

NeilThrun wrote:Many (NOT ALL) Christians excuse they're sinfull behavior by telling themselves that as long as they repent it means nothing. While they still go around telling other people what they are doing is wrong, regardless if the people have repented or even believe theyre action is sinfull. Too many christians use sinning and repenting as an unending cycle to excuse poor behavior(whether the behavior is actually wrong or just sin by Gods terms is irrellevant).
How this applies to the christian right(and when I say christian right, I dont mean christians who are republican, I mean the republicans who go around spout what God would want and that things should be a certain way because of Theology) is as follows. They excuse war, and infact repent the act of murder, by saying it's for the greater good. That they are making the world a better place. Then they go around trying to tell me I can't marry a man, or I cant have an abortion and so on. Shouldn't it be legal for me to do these activities as long as i repent? Why does the christian right feel the need to increase the punishment of God's laws. God already punishes those who disobey. What is the purpose?

Is this logic conssistent? Because please, continue to pick it apart until it satisfies your logic.

I'm not picking apart anything. You are mixing together two things that in my mind have nothing to do with each other. One involves Christian dogma, the other involves changes to American laws. I have already stated this all before, but I will repeat it here.

1) Repenting is not merely saying the word "sorry". Repenting involves regretting having done the thing in the past. If you marry a dude and then repent, it does not make sense to stay married to that dude if you regret getting married to him in the first place. If you continue the activity without trying to change your behavior, you haven't repented. If you kill one man, or 100 men, then realize that was wrong to do and never do it again and ask for forgiveness, THAT is repenting. If you have homosexual sex (assuming that it's considered sinful) but don't really see anything wrong with it, don't plan on stopping, and say "sorry", that is NOT repenting.

2) I have already said that I don't think any laws should be changed to reflect Christian ideals. It should be legal for you to bone a dude, eat a shrimp and pork sandwich, or to choose to not impregnate your brother's widow, even though these are all abominations to God. It should also be legal for Christians to drone on ad nauseum about how they think you're going to Hell. They have the right of free speech just like everyone else.

Does it matter if these people are actually repenting? No, they convice themselves that by making amends they are making up for their sins. They get caught in a viscous cycle of excusing their behavior by saying "As long as a I repent God wont mind". Whether these people actually repent isn't important, especially to me, since I realy don't think there is that greater being to repent to. But its also unimportant because they dont realize theyre not actually repenting and just use it right off their sins. Is that a bit clearer?

And yes they have the right of free speech, but not the right to dictate my life style. As long as they're only talk its alright, if semi-annoying. But the second people start proposing laws saying gays can't marry, banning abortion they should leave the christianity at the door.

NeilThrun wrote:Does it matter if these people are actually repenting? No, they convice themselves that by making amends they are making up for their sins. They get caught in a viscous cycle of excusing their behavior by saying "As long as a I repent God wont mind". Whether these people actually repent isn't important, especially to me, since I realy don't think there is that greater being to repent to. But its also unimportant because they dont realize theyre not actually repenting and just use it right off their sins. Is that a bit clearer?

So, the question is, where do you get off telling other people how to worship a God you don't even believe in?

NeilThrun wrote:But the second people start proposing laws saying gays can't marry, banning abortion they should leave the christianity at the door.

Let's not get into it again, but the people who want to make abortion illegal want it because they believe it's an act of murder. It's a matter of religion only insofar as it being against the law to kill someone is a matter of religion.

NeilThrun wrote:Does it matter if these people are actually repenting? No, they convice themselves that by making amends they are making up for their sins. They get caught in a viscous cycle of excusing their behavior by saying "As long as a I repent God wont mind". Whether these people actually repent isn't important, especially to me, since I realy don't think there is that greater being to repent to. But its also unimportant because they dont realize theyre not actually repenting and just use it right off their sins. Is that a bit clearer?

Do you really know Christians who go around constantly killing, commiting adultery, stealing, lying, and then thinking they can get away with that because they said "sorry" instead of actually regretting their misdeeds and turning away from sin? That's hypothetically annoying, but it's annoying because they have misunderstood the basics of Christianity, not because the rules are inherently messed up.

What about the death penalty? Isn't that used by many southern-state courts?

"The penis is evil. ..Penis shoot seed that spreads new life.. Go forth and kill! Zardoz has spoken."

c hack wrote:So, the question is, where do you get off telling other people how to worship a God you don't even believe in?

True. Its a fine line, at what point is government and religion seperated but not smothering religion.

erikb wrote: Do you really know Christians who go around constantly killing, commiting adultery, stealing, lying, and then thinking they can get away with that because they said "sorry" instead of actually regretting their misdeeds and turning away from sin? That's hypothetically annoying, but it's annoying because they have misunderstood the basics of Christianity, not because the rules are inherently messed up.

Constantly no. Thats not what I said. But people do it.
Yeah sorry if I hav confused you, the christians who use this form of self affirmation are annoying. Not christianity itself. I've been a tad frustrated with the arguement, mostly because it turned into a debate of what repenting is which I felt was unimportant my point, I should have made that clearer from the get go.

Strangely, I agree with both of you.

fodroy wrote:YOU KNOW HOW FRED PHELPS SAYS THE HURRICANE IN NEW ORLEANS WAS CAUSED BY GOD'S WRATH?

HE'S WRONG. IT WAS ACTUALLY CAUSED BY THE JAPS NEW WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. PEOPLE, I THINK THIS GUY IS ON TO SOMETHING.

LOL. I think you're right Fodroy, this guys is on (to) something.