How Do I Learn/Practice The Drums ?

[blue]

very important drumming tip: when you bust your knuckles on a drum rim, it is important to write stuff on the drum heads in your blood. this lets the drums know who is boss.

otherwise, they will never respect you.

[Dan-O from Five-O]

very important drumming tip: when you bust your knuckles on a drum rim, it is important to write stuff on the drum heads in your blood. this lets the drums know who is boss.

otherwise, they will never respect you.

Without question, the best tip yet. I don't have the time or patience to wait for this to happen though. So I'm going upstairs and cut my knuckle open with a guitar string and writing stuff on the drum heads right now.

But wait, will the fact that I cut it open with a guitar string alter the drums opinion of who's boss? Should I just be patient and wait for it to happen naturally?

[Albatross]

But wait, will the fact that I cut it open with a guitar string alter the drums opinion of who's boss?

Probably. But your guitar will worship you as a god.

Leaf - that is truly a Christmas Story moment:

"Oh my God, I poked my eye out! Wait, the stick must have just hit my glasses. Oh no, my glasses!!"

[Leaf]

very important drumming tip: when you bust your knuckles on a drum rim, it is important to write stuff on the drum heads in your blood. this lets the drums know who is boss.

otherwise, they will never respect you.

that made me laugh. Cause it's true.

[pegor]

Here's a fun one to make you sound all funky or fusiony:
...

R L R R L R L L .
K____K____K

Ok I've been trying this. It's fun - but won't putting the snare on the 3 make all the white people fall down. Do you ever miix this in with standard snare on the back beat kinda phrases?

[frankie big face]

A different things here:

1) I don't care if you can't see the benefit of the analogy between the guitarist using a metronome to understand the relationship of a=440 and the further relationship of the other notes so that they can be universally in tune with other players versus a drummer using a metronome to understand the relationship of time so that they can be rhythmically aware of the pulse and the underlying subdivisions.

Well, if you don't care, then why did you expend so much energy to tell me so?

2) So you think you're a good teacher...what's your point? That I'm not? That you're more qualified to express your opinion on clicks? That was irrelevant. I get the impression that 90% of my students think I'm a good teacher too... so what. That doesn't impact the topic in anyway.

That comment had nothing to do with you, but obviously, you would like it to have everything to do with you. You really ought to examine what it is about you that makes you react to my statement with "And I'm not?" That was never said nor implied. I really don't know anything about you, let alone whether you're a teacher, a carpenter, a painter, or a prostitute. I was simply giving some background about myself and my experience with metronomes before making a statement about their value and lack thereof in specific settings. You chose to make it some kind of statement about you.

3) Why would I want to prove you wrong about relating to musicians in a group setting? I think you're totally right, and I never said otherwise. My points were directed at statements that suggested that using a click was not a good idea, so I listed the reasons I thought it was! Where did I suggest that groups of musicians must play to a click? Or that it was a perpetual requirement? As far as the "unnatural" comment goes, this is where I disagree with you, because I find it quite natural, as I had previously stated or implyed... and we happen to be different people. You are entitled to your opinion on that, but it's no rule. Just because you find it awkward doesn't mean I do. Now , if you meant that it's awkward in a group setting ONLY, I didn't get that impression the first time around, so I aplogize if you assumed the intent of my post was to "call you out" or "prove you wrong" or whatever negative connotation you wish to infer... but that wasn't the point at all. The point was to express, to new or beginning DRUMMERS that there are areas where I see tremendous value in the use of a click, and this should not be ignored. As I believe I am, at worst, a decent drummer, I think I'm qualified to express the benefits that I gained from the use of click, just as I have experienced the benefits of using a tuner.

I didn't ask anyone to "prove me wrong." I just voiced my opinion and invited further discussion from anyone on the board who chose to take am opposing opinion. The fact that you are probably the most defensive person on the internet compelled you to read way more into my quickly scribed paragraph than I could ever wish to imply. I didn't "assume the intent of (your) post was to 'call me out' or 'prove me wrong' or whatever"--in fact, I don't even think I read all of it.

To try to avoid an international incident, I'd like to go on record as saying the ultimate level of use of a metronome and/or click track is a personal decision. However, if you find you cannot decide for yourself, please ask Leaf to write a few paragraphs on your behalf. You may need to provide a blood sample and/or stray hairs from your pillow, but I am certain he can provide you with the guidance you need. In the meantime, Leaf, not react too defensively to my post. If you tell me your Northwest Territory is bigger than mine, I swear I'm going to cry like a little boy and no-one needs to see that.

[thehipcola]

Great thread..well, most of it anyways.

I think I read somewhere in this thread that someone stated they felt click tracks were responsible for sucking the life out of the bands they'd played with and so it was bad. Having played with many bands, I'd venture that it takes an fair amount of talent and skill to be able to play with a click and retain the feel you are trying to play with. Most people can't do that in my experience. And most of them haven't worked long enough at trying to. They probably blamed the lifelessness of their performances all on the click and did away with it. Ignorance can sure sound groovy.

My message is...stay with the click. After lots of time spent with it, you'll gain an otherwise (nearly) impossible understanding and relationship with tempo and pulse, and you'll learn how to play in the pocket or just in front of the pocket, or just behind as desired, while still being able to maintain an accurate tempo.

From a production perspective, being able to play well to a click opens up all kinds of cool editing and sync opportunities....so imo, it's worth the work to get there.

/2cents from a non-educated, non-teaching, amateur musician, fwiw

[blue]

please don't get this damn thread locked too.

[Me$$iah]

I seen Dream Theater live,
and the drummer used a clik then Im sure....timing was perfect

They were awesome.

[pegor]

wipe the apple sauce off of your chins and sit up in your high chairs - it's a history lesson:

back in the days when telephones had dials, cocaine wasn't habit forming, and sex wasn't deadly we had a thing called usenet. It was the grandady of forums. When someone posted to a usenet topic they were just as likely to flame and bitch as you diaper demigods, but it was only acceptable if they posted the OBLIGITORY topic related material too.

I hate to agree with a metiric dicked pedantic self deluded troll, but taking arguments to PM seems more in the spirit of a help and how to then taking a thread off topic.

OB: "How Do I Learn/Practice The Drums ?" :
when trying to learn a drum pattern - slow your click track way down and learn it at a retarded tempo. then slowly advance the tempo. ( thats all I got Im not a drummer)

Sorry uncle pegor recently turned forty and lost all his patience

[Leaf]

Here's a fun one to make you sound all funky or fusiony:
...

R L R R L R L L .
K____K____K

Ok I've been trying this. It's fun - but won't putting the snare on the 3 make all the white people fall down. Do you ever miix this in with standard snare on the back beat kinda phrases?

sorry, I should have said that the "RLRR" are 16ths, so the "L" is on the 2. You could repeat the whole thing to get a bar of 4/4.


I was thinking of sharing this next idea this afternoon, cause it's drummer gold. Rick Gratton taught me this... he is a deadly teacher... maybe a bit eccentric, but as the hockey players say "unbelievable".

It's called "Three motion theory". The idea is that there are only three different ways you can move with the hands, from "sound source" to "sound source".
A "sound source" is a drum, a cymbal, a cowbell, a music stand... anything you are gonna play with two hands. Looking at the three motion possibilties can help expand old ideas as well as help create new ones. Non-drummers can use the ideas to program different fills.

So, here they are (as "discovered" by Rick Gratton):

PARALELL: Both sticks start on the same sound source. They move, at the same time, to a new, but same sound source. (this is the most common type of motion, and it's typical in rock).

LINEAR: One hand stays on the same sound source, while the other moves to different sound sources. (jazz players use this alot)

OBLIQUE: Both hands start on different sound sources, then move at the same time, to new, but different sound sources. (I find this one hard to keep going on... but it can produce some weird stuff!)


... I know it's a pretty advanced spot, but so what. You can take a fill like playing four 16th notes on each drum in a four beat fill using single strokes:

Snare RLRL
Tom1 _____RLRL
Tom2__________RLRL
Tom3_______________RLRL

If you play it linear, with the left hand on the snare you get:

SnareRLRL R R R R R R
Tom1 _____L_L
Tom2 _________L_L_
Tom 3 ____________L_L_

And Oblique would be WAY different...and kinda hard to write out like this!

Anyway, hope someone likes that.

[Southwest_Statistic]

My favorite beat would still have to be...

Code: Select all

_kick: rr_rrr_rrr_rrr_r
snare: __l___l___l___l_
__hat: __r_r_r_r_r_r_r_
crash: r_______________
_toms: ________________

...dont know why...

[Dan-O from Five-O]

Some audio examples of these beats would be awesome. I'm having trouble reading the charts and codes and I can't tell how wrong I'm doing it. I don't want to reinforce playing something the wrong way by repeatedly practicing it.

[Sober]

I think dropping all that into fruity loops or whatever would be best. That way, you could practice with it AND speed it up/slow it down.

As far as equipment goes:

I love Yamaha kick drums

I love tama toms

I love pearl snares

Yamaha hardware is nice, and Tama's newest offerings are too

For high-end cymbals, I like Zildjian. The Avedis New Beats are the greatest high hats.

For cheap cymbals, I like Sabian B8's.

For mid-range cymbals, I like Paiste.

No preference yet on drumheads, although Evans' packaging design makes cataloging a hell of a lot easier.

I have very little experience with DW, Ludwig, Mapex, Sonor, and Pacific, as my shop doesn't carry those brands. The greatest drummer I know (personally) uses a mapex kit.

Best economy mic set out there: Audix Fusion series. Fusion 6 plus a 57 for the snare, and you're in business.

These opinions are based solely on the drumsets I've gotten my hands on as they came through the store. I wouldn't call myself a drummer, but god do I love playing drums.

Steve Gadd played to a click with Steely Dan.

[DJ3XHC]

all professionals use a click when it fits the genre.

[Sober]

Please tell me that is you in that picture.

Been taking things I've learned on drums to other instruments since this thread began. Playing alternating notes on piano or guitar like paradiddles, etc. Pretty cool exercises.

[blue]

all professionals use a click when it fits the genre.

untrue - i mean, obviously it is as untrue as any absolute statement will be, but i have witnessed very "professional" bands recording without a click. the last big jazz session i was involved with, the band had the singer in an iso with a metronome to start the song, and then did their thing without it once they were going.

sos, as a highly professional rock unit, makes good use of that trick as well. some of our best, and most pussy, songs (death plunge and bullseye girl) were done in a single tempo and recorded to a drum machine tempo.

but, more often than not, parts need to breathe. and, most often of all, i'll be damned if i'm gonna fuckin' program a multi-tempo click for songfight

[McMoses]

i basically learned the drums by air drumming until i got a set so i don't know how to start from SCRATCH, but go online and get some tabs to your favorite songs and play to them. this will help you read tab and listen to some quality music while you're doing it.

[Me$$iah]

all professionals use a click when it fits the genre.

Steve Moses doesnt use a clik track on any of the Alice Donut recordings.
Hes a great drummer with excellent timing, Pure Acid Park is an amazing example of greta timing, with no clik.

[Eric Y.]

sorry, I should have said that the "RLRR" are 16ths, so the "L" is on the 2.

oh, thanks for clearing that up. i'm pretty sure in an earlier post you had said the hits were all 1/8 notes.

anyway, thanks everybody for the interesting reading... particularly seeing as how i have gotten a drum set for christmas and will be setting it up as soon as i get this spare bedroom situated.


-

oh, and on that subject, my new drumset came with a DVD from yamaha which is supposed to contain helpful information on set-up and tuning. i haven't watched it yet, but i'm sure this is a subject there are zillions of differing opinions about... if anybody wanted to share some of their favourite ideas, i'm sure it would be appreciated!

[blue]

the sooner you pick up the basics of independant hits, the better off you'll be. i played nothing but synched beats while learning, and it was a major PITA to pick up the staggered stuff later.

so try to learn the REM beat ASAP. this is playing the high-hat between but not on each bass drum and snare hit. if you play it slow it's very dub-ish.

Code: Select all

H: _X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X
B: X___X___X___X___X___X___X___
S: __X___X___X___X___X___X___X_

this is the beat from sos' dirty chucks and moscow. idaho, more or less, but it's hard to hear the hats in those songs. it's also the beat from REM's first 30 or so songs.

[Leaf]

Charile watts does something like that too... any time I end up playing a stones song, I use that idea... his was to leave the hi hat out on snare hits only (but still double on the kick)... one of my drum teachers (Paul DeLong) referred to this style of play as "linear"... drummers sure like the word "linear" :


HH X_X___X_X_X___X

SD ____X________X_

BD X_______X______


hey... this is fun.

With Blue's idea, if you open the hihat (each time), you get a funky pattern ala disco or chili pepperish... If anyone would like, I'll knock off a bunch of examples of this stuff when I get home from work... or not..