Paco Del Stinko wrote:drum machines or programming were very helpful in learning the real ones, no?
I attribute my real drum playing skills to my machine. I'm not a "drummer" by any stretch, but I do work my stuff out on the kit first. As time goes on, I'll get better at this digi stuff and the time will come to take the next step like Melvin. I was a drummer in a band for a while and I sit in every so often. Pretty much just boop bap boop bap kind of stuff, but I have impeccable time...well, impeccable might be a stretch.
Paco Del Stinko wrote:drum machines or programming were very helpful in learning the real ones, no?
I attribute my real drum playing skills to my machine. I'm not a "drummer" by any stretch, but I do work my stuff out on the kit first. As time goes on, I'll get better at this digi stuff and the time will come to take the next step like Melvin. I was a drummer in a band for a while and I sit in every so often. Pretty much just boop bap boop bap kind of stuff, but I have impeccable time...well, impeccable might be a stretch.
Prior experience with drum programming is undoubtedly helpful when learning to play on a real kit. However, it took me a few years of drum programming to figure out that I can't be hitting the hi hat, snare and crash at the same time, but on a real kit, that's something you learn pretty much learn on the first day.
i love real drums, boop bap is better than synth anything. but if synth is what you got then make it work with your shizzle. melvin is rad at both so i am honored to have him drum on anything. melvin,Pedro and Glennny are the colllective man.....shamless plug....who cares..GO WSA!!!
Thanks for the frisbee is on Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music ect.
Adam Adamant
The mix makes it difficult to hear what's going on. I can't understand the lyrics. Sorry, it's tough to comment further.
Carl Salbacka
The recording quality is really rough but you probably know that. The sections of the song don't flow nicely. Each part has its merits but it sounds more like a medley than a single song.
Civil Offense
Nice minor chordage. Woo. Percussion is a bit out of time which is distracting. I like the reverb on the guitar and vocals - nice style.
Cynthia Size
I normally hate that kind of vocal effect but it's nifty here. The mix is a bit uneven -- I'd like to hear the vocals a little clearer (boost highs and overall level). I like this one.
DJ Green
ugh, sorry.
Electric Needle Room
The repeating piano riff is complicated but it always fits -- good job. Maybe pull back on the reverb a bit so it's a little cleaner. Layered vocals are well executed.
Embers of Autumn
Panning the guitars would've opened things up nicely (just a thought). Nice songwriting. Shame you didn't have a bassist and drummer to work with, huh?
Flvxxvm Forvm
Yeah! Beefheart-approved. I like how the opening sounds a bit like "O Death" or some-such. Success.
Ham No Burger
I like the riff/groove. The chorus release sets the rest of the song off nicely. Vocals could be louder. Thumbs up.
i.p.
Five-star arrangement. Bravo. I'm jealous. The vocal style is unusual and refreshing.
Mailbox
This is me. Thanks for all the good comments.
Melvin
Tasty drum/percussion parts. Power ballads everywhere -- beware. I don't hear much new here but it's done well.
Project-D
I liked the verse (a little Zooropa-influenced?) but the chorus was a little letdown because the drums just kind of keep going along. There should've been some shift in the beat to lift things. Good harmonies.
The Weakest Suit
Well done. Sounds like the guitars got a little clipped in the mix. Otherwise, nice jangly catchy tune.
Worldly Self Assurance
Another good college radio hit. 16ths on the hi-hat and everything. I like the two-vocalist approach -- works really well. "We're gathered here today" part is brilliant and chilling! The guitar solo was a bit too showy.
Wreckdom
Reverb-y slide guitar is cool. Overall vibe of the song doesn't do it for me. Layered vocals in chorus is choice.
irvingirving wrote:The guitar solo was a bit too showy.
I fucking told you!!! No cock rock, quite clearly. Hahaha, but seriously I take it all back, I wouldn't have it any other way and I want you to know Glenn, that solo is melting faces aaaall over the globe.
I keep wanting to say it was one thing (like mel's 16th hats, or the end chorus, or the frisbee verse, or the flangey jangly bit at the end) that makes this track but (as I demonstrated in the previous brackets) there are so many awesome elements here that if any of them were lost it would be a shadow of the track I think it is. Never more have I felt like I don't own a song that I had a part in, it was an honour once again to work with you guys. I feel like a self congratulatory twat to be sure, but I do think we're the best band since the Travelling Wilburys. Or should I say Gert.
I should review, but we'll see how long it takes me to write a song this week.
I never made it to full reviews for The Sugar Shaker. This group of songs, though, contain a lot of great songs. I totally disagree with the guy who said all these songs were crap. At first I was disappointed with the lack of "big name" songfighters, but the songs here were almost a relief because of the creativity level and, yeah, I guess, lack of people I have heard do their same thing over and over and over (although there was one of these).
Adam Adament – again, for the third week, your downloaded file does not play in my mp3 player. Your three songs are the only mp3s I have ever come across that do not work in my player.
Carl Salbacka – nice vocal tone, and nice bits of melody throughout. I like the few timing changes. In my opinion, this song suffers from a lack of structure (almost an improvised feel), and not so great production. I’m assuming that you recorded it to the best of your recording ability and not everyone has a super-studio set up, so I can’t fault you there. I like all right as is, for the good parts, but I would like it better with a more recognizable structure and a clearer recording.
Civil Offense – there are some really great ideas in this song. The more times I listen to it, the more I like it. Panned cow-bell/maraca is always a plus. Basically I like all the percussion. I would be surprised if you are not a big Frank Black fan. I hear bits of him in this track. Lyrics are also interesting and even though the chorus may appear weak, I feel that it accompanies the verses pretty well.
Cynthia Size and the @eclectic sp00ns – this may be my favorite cs&@s song. The melodies are great, and the song contains just the right amount of changes to keep me interested throughout. The soundscape is lush and inviting. This is infinitely more danceable than most of The Sugar Shaker entries last time. Bravo. My only nit-pick is that I couldn’t understand the vocals much at all. But the “emotion” of the song is enough to be very likable.
DJ Green – please either buy a popper stopper or turn the mic input down. Also, a couple months of vocal lessons would really help with a bit of singing technique, how to breathe, etc. I like the guitar and some of the background noises, but the dreariness of the vocals don’t match the supposed “bad ass” stuff that is taking place. There is also nothing real positive about this song, therefore, not much to like. Frankly, the “sung” chorus and the talking at the ending were embarrassing to listen to. I’d also lay good money that you have never been in the same room with either “crack” or “pussy”. If you had, your “rap” would have more life to it.
Electric Needle Room – I like the production here, the instrumentation, and the harmonies. The lyrics are not my favorite. I can’t put my tongue on what exactly this reminds me of, but it’s something. Very carnival sounding. I’m not a fan of 80s music, though, and I think that’s the vibe you are going for. I like this as much as I can.
Embers of Autumn – here’s one I like, quite a bit. Sure it’s basically a g+g song, but it has a lot of energy to it. Good melodies and song construction. Sounds a bit like the early songs by The Weakest Suit (pre Sugar Shaker), in that it’s a guy and a guitar that is a bit more than just a guy and a guitar. I’m looking forward to hearing more.
Flvxxm Florvm – lots of guts in this song. I admire the gumption it took to write/record/present this one. Needless to say, I like the beginning and ending better than the middle, but I like the experiment. Where does your band name come from?
The Giant Snail – I would like this one a lot more if the “nonchalant” talking was taken out of the beginning, and the effect was taken off the vocals. I like the idea of the effect, but the strength of it obscures the melody and twists it into a monotonous electronic smear. I would really like a cleaner vocal mix of this one.
Ham No Burger – Rockin’! Vocal effects completely work in this song. The hot side’s hot and the cool side’s cool. I can believe that this track took quite a while to record and mix. There is a lot going on here. The mix is great. I’m not straining to hear anything or wishing anything was lower. This is a little hard for my personal tastes, but I can definitely appreciate a good track, and since your style is not usually this hard, I’m guessing you’re incorporating the style into your statement. The version I downloaded is 3:40 and it cuts off at the end. Is this right?
i.p. – wow. Great track! Strings and horns are heavenly. Sounds of the Beatles and Radiohead in here around the edges of the melody and instrumentation. This is different enough in a good way to be a contender for the win, me thinks (if DJ Green doesn’t friend flood). I like a lot, and I like how this was different than last fight. Keep evolving.
Mailbox – Nice pop song. I like the piano and other instrumentation. Nice melodies and singing too. Not much else to say. It’s very nice from beginning to end.
Project-D – I like this song a lot too. Great overall sound and melodies. Love the sound of the guitar during the solo. One of the best so far.
The Weakest Suit – I like when the drums cut out before each verse and you hear a bit of the earlier song fight song that the verse references. Lyric posting is a plus, because I can’t make out some of what is being said. That said, this is my least favorite song by you. Mercifully short.
A Worldly Self-Assurance – well played, especially some of the guitar. But as a whole, this song comes off as a mish-mash with no real direction. Not very catchy either.
WreckdoM – Great track to end this group of songs on. I like the lyrical flow and atmosphere built up here. It could have been a bit longer and still held my interest quite nicely. Lots of cool bits of instrumentation layered throughout. Great mixing/production allows everything to be heard clearly. This actually reminds me of the band Deconstruction (Eric Avery and Dave Navarro’s little mentioned post Jane’s Addiction side project, which I enjoyed very much). I’ve never been able to say that before.
Anyway, great group of songs from mostly a new crop of songfighters.
jackfrost wrote:Ham No Burger – Rockin’! Vocal effects completely work in this song. The hot side’s hot and the cool side’s cool. I can believe that this track took quite a while to record and mix. There is a lot going on here. The mix is great. I’m not straining to hear anything or wishing anything was lower. This is a little hard for my personal tastes, but I can definitely appreciate a good track, and since your style is not usually this hard, I’m guessing you’re incorporating the style into your statement. The version I downloaded is 3:40 and it cuts off at the end. Is this right?
Thanks for the positive review. Yeah, it's supposed to cut off at the end like that. I must have just watched the Sopranos series finale before I decided to do that. heh.
Hi, thanks for all the reviews. This week's was a bit rushed at the end and so wasn't as nice as I'd hoped.
Mainly I want to advise people who are having trouble listening to my songs to try another music player. I know that iTunes doesn't like them but WinAmp doesn't mind. I don't know exactly what the problem is but I'm going to have a look in to it.
adamadamant wrote:Hi, thanks for all the reviews. This week's was a bit rushed at the end and so wasn't as nice as I'd hoped.
Mainly I want to advise people who are having trouble listening to my songs to try another music player. I know that iTunes doesn't like them but WinAmp doesn't mind. I don't know exactly what the problem is but I'm going to have a look in to it.
Thanks for patience.
AA
actually, your song plays in my itunes player and windows media player, but i usually review songs during slow time at work and only have my mp3 player with me, which will not play your songs. it's a scandisc sansa. not that high quality, but it plays literally everything else i have ever loaded into it.
adamadamant wrote:Mainly I want to advise people who are having trouble listening to my songs to try another music player. I know that iTunes doesn't like them but WinAmp doesn't mind. I don't know exactly what the problem is but I'm going to have a look in to it.
So The Worldly Self Assurance get my vote this week. For the record, here are the things that pushed it above and beyond:
1) Well-played Ebow. <3
2) The "ooh" breakdown.
3) Lyrics that I can get behind.
4) That solo. Man. Face = melted.
5) Melvin's drums. Fitting and awesome. I love the sort of triplet high hat thing. The very best part of these is the first "Gathered here today" part, with the stop-start rhythm and the well-used tom hits.
6) The entire "We are gathered here today" section.
So... Pretty much all of it, really. I love also the way that the two vocalists take the same lyrics and tune and work them in a different way.
NatchDan wrote:So The Worldly Self Assurance get my vote this week.
Thanks for the vote and the comments 'Dan.
This tune is definitely one of my all-time favourites. Everyone added something awesome and unique in their own style. I feel lucky to "work" with these guys, and I definitely hope The WSA makes more music together!
i guess by "big names", i meant, artists i look forward to hearing stuff from.
this week there was one.
but there was a lot of good music from the newer people.
and WreckdoM. i really liked his entry.
A Damn a damn Ant- This is tough to listen to. Way too much echo way too little groove.
Carl Salbacka- Finish writing the song, THEN press record. Production quality is horrible. Sounds like an OK idea for a song. Refine it, use a click track. The poor production is really distracting. This is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long for what it is.
Civil Offense- Well at least there's enough Cow Bell. This is very loose. Having a hard time getting in to it.
Sp00n and Syn- I really want to play with Syn. What software is she? This has a dirtier funkier groove than usual. Melody mianders and doesn't really hook. But this is so weird and unusual I find it very appealing.
DJ Green- Clipping. Mix is terrible. Very difficult to listen to. Yikes, the singing is worse than the rapping. I'm forcing myself to finish this. Most listens to the fight I have to skip this track. It's pretty painful. Not funny.
Electric Needle Room- This is enjoyable. The drum machine and sequence sounds very stiff. Vocals are good, though too much reverb for my taste. Nice melodies. I like the "la la la" bridge. Hmm , probably should've been a little shorter the last minute doesn't really develop.
Embers of Autumn- Pitchy vocals, really rough. Poor recording. Guitar sounds terrible. burried in the terrible performance and awful recording is a pretty good song. I like the attempted melody and changes. Desparately needs a re-record, a new producer, etc.
Flvxxm Florvm- this reminds me of Rube Waddell. Guitar is cool, Beefheart vocals are cool. Song is disjointed and jarring but I think on purpose. The faint folk acoustic bits are nice.
Giant Snail- Pretty cool groove, nice vocal melody, I don't like the distorted vocal effect. This is a good song. Nice hook! Good job, I would just tweak some of the choices but overall this is the best so far.
Ham No Burger- It's nice to actually hear some power chord metal. The chorus has a great melody and I like the way the vocals sell it. The "dark" edgy verse is silly, not as sinister as it tries to be. The change up is nice. This is a fun song. I like it.
IP- Well the strings are absoloutely fantastic. Having a string sextet? is awesome! The vocals unfortunely are not up to par with the exquisite strings and brass. The music is beautiful. The vocals are OK, good melody in parts, unsure in others , good song overall. I hope in the future we hear a lot more of these string players, I imagine you'll be hit up for some collabs. Good job!!
Mailbox- Another good song! Great keys, nice singing! Well written song! This is a keeper. More strings, these don't sound so real, but they are a nice touch! Good stuff, lyrics are pretty cheesy, but I try not to hear them, everything else is sooooooo good.
Melvin- One of favorite artists period. This is a very good Melvin song. This would get my vote be it not for the WSA. Production is flawless, great melody and performance that response melody that comes in the chorus is my favorite bit. Gives me chills it's so pretty. Great dynamics! Short and sweet ending.
Project D- It's tough to follow Melvin. This is not bad, just drags a bit. Melody lacks luster. Yeah, I'm not into it. Root 8th notes in the bass, it all sounds phoned in.
The Weakest Suit- Not a bad little ditty. Nice simple song and melody. Nothing really special about this , but it's pleasant enough.
Wreckdom- An acquired tase, and i've acquired it. I look forward to the Wreckdom entries. Recording is great. All the guitar noises make me love this track. Drums and bass are solid and groovy. This is a keeper. I like the singing better than the sing-talk, but I don't think that's the focus. I dig it!
The Worldly Self Assurance- This is a dream band for me. I'm stoked to be a part of it. So there's the genius of Furry Pedro, he was the one to throw out a chord pattern full of clever inventive rhythm guitar a very dynamic structure with solid beautiful playing. Then he came up with the 1st verse, with excellent lyrics and melody. Frisbee picked up the 2nd verse his voice gives me chills it's so great. Wonderful lyrics per usual from Frisbee playing off of Furry Pedro. Melvin had added real drums and threw down scratch bass. The bass was so good I saw no reason to replace it. I threw down some e-bow , I especially like the way Melvin mixed it in over Frisbees verse. I was so excited the way this song was shaping up, I couldn't help myself and just had to shread to the best of my ability for the solo. I'm more impressed with Melvin than ever after working with him. He's got a great ear, he completely deleted a mandolin track i had created, and he was right, it's much stronger without it. I also LOVE how he took Furry Pedro and Frisbee out of their doubled vocals comfort zone and let the singular tracks stand. Both of them have never sounded better, their juxtaposition makes both stronger too. Melvin's "bridge was pretty inspired too. This is my favorite song I've ever been part of.
My favorites are Melvin, Mail box, IP, and the Worldly Self Assurance
Phillipso, Older Brothers, Semolina Pilchards, Zipline , Thank Glennny for the Frisbee, The Odoriferous Valley, The Worldly Self Assurance, Berkeley Social Scene, Very Gentle Knives, Daddy Bop Swing Set, GUNS, The Kraken Lives, Cavedwellers
The weakest suit: happy and upbeat. Words are kinda cool. The guitar should have some kind of processing on it, more reverb or some't, it sticks out a bit. Songs not overly inspiring but it's okay. Skiffle-a-riffic.
Cynthia n tha Spoons: Still going strong I see. This sounds a bit more hard hitting than I remember your stuff being last time I listened, but still as random, cool. The sounds in general are much cooler. the bass sound at about 55s is rad, cymbals are a bit loud. Are you using Reason now by any chance? The beats sound groovier than you used to do.
Flvxmvxflrovmrc: I've never really got your stuff, and this is a great example of the whole spectrum of your repertoir that I don't get. the dirty blues to the balls out sqwauk rock. You are a unique mix of Tom Waits and Motorhead. or something
Adamadamantium: I always have respect for anyone who programs whole tracks by themselves but that's pretty much where my appreciation for this ends. First off, what have you done with the vocals?? a tiny bit of reverb would've been fine. 2nd, do the drums vary at all? respect again for not going for a conventional beat but it gets boring. None of the melodies or chords or rhythmic elements do anything for me. Also have you mixed this at all? it all sounds centrally panned.
DJ Green: haha, I can't see me listening to this for long. Don't believe that's cos it's hip-hop. or RnB I should say. Get a pop shield. fuck, get some skills. If I thought saying "wicky-what" was Ironic I'd love this. Ooh, I made it 10 seconds from the end but you suck too much.
The Giant Snail: This is one of the better ones I've heard so far. Not in love with it but the synthy bit at 1.37 is pretty cool. I wish the vocals were a click less distorted. Aye, not bad.
Mailbox: Interesting clicky sound on the piano. This is pretty good. In fact you've stolen the best song crown so far, a fuller arrangement would've been nice but as far as melody and structure goes this is the best.
Project D: Intro sounds like GBV which is always a good thing, 'cept the kick drum's trying to be a bit funky. Your voice sounds alright but you're obviously trying to hide it with all the effects and layering and stuff, not that the effects are overdone but from my point of view the singing is strong enough so I wouldn't worry about it. tonally it reminds me of Ian Mackaye. Anyway, this keeps passing me by, it's by no means bad but I wait for the drums to change and then the solo happens I realise they're not going to which is a shame cos the basic song isn't interesting or engaging enough for me. This needed a time sig change/rock out/break down or something. Good bass sound.
Embers of Autumn: There's something about this i like, not much, but anything which tries to sound like the Promise Ring (I don't want to see you posting saying you've never heard them - if that is the case and you're making music like this you should be ashamed - if you have, sorry, carry on) immediately is on my good side unless it's too boy band-ish. Okay, so you need a drummer too, but they're a pain in the ass, so failing that you should try making the guitar lines more interesting,more twinkly bits, get the guitars to play off each other, more stop-starts, and maybe a tambourine.
Electric Needle Room: I always fascinated to know exactly what the influences are that go into making a track like this. The beat sounds eastern European and I'm not quite sure what makes anyone think that is a good idea, then there's the honky-tonk piano which for me only works in 2 scenarios: 1) western bar scenes 2) Alright by Supergrass. The prevailing 80's synth pop vibe is pretty cool, this sounds like the Pet shop boys or New order playing Greek karaoke. If that's what you were aiming for, great! It was definitley not boring.
Civil offense: If there's no drummer handy and you can't program drums try avoiding rock. I love shakers and cowbell but in this song they are a poor substitute for a balls out driving rock beat. You should've written a jazz-folk track or something. Paco could've pulled this off, but not you, sorry.
Carl Salbacka: I was thinking of nice ways to say "get better and come back" but I like that tempo change there, nice touch. I guess it's not that bad but there's a million songs like this and I'd like to not have to review another one of them ever again. The only reason I'm even saying this is cos a) you're songs still going and b) this appears to be your first fight so I thought I share that with you. Variations good, everything else dodgy.
Wreckdom: Cool swirly noises. This is interesting that you've used the toy drumkit sound in the verse, I keep expecting it to kick off after the chorus but apparently you're exersizing a lot of restraint this week. Or are you just mega tired. Makes me think of the butthole surfers.
i.p.: Ooh, this is unecpected. I really like this though I get the feeling it won't kick off at any point, whihc is fine but I like tracks that change halfway through. Reminds me of Fog, but richer, I doubt Andy Broder could afford a string section. I hesitate to assume this is all prgrammed, I've had people reply before "no, that's a real flute", but either way it's very nicley done. Good work!
Mel: Well there's no fucking way this is going to be worth listening to [/sarcasm]. You see what you and your ridiculous prolificity (if that is a word) has done here? Stolen half 'our' votes hasn't it. So we can all blame you if i.p. or someone wins. God it's been so long since I got a win I just need this so bad!!! Ever since we got robbed of our BiaB victory by those bastards RxW. I'm assuming of course that DJ green won't do that dirty thing which we don't talk about round here with all his nasty friends. Anyway, this is quite good, I feel like it keeps wanting to soar and not quite doing it. I want to like it, I mean I do like it, but I don't get any of those hair-standing-on-end moments.
Bam no Hurger: Quite fast + 3.40 = bored by the end. I'm a mathematical genius y'know. These riffs are quite good, but too generic to be awesome. I like changes but this chorus is all stadium rock Creed style which sucks balls and arse at the same time. This is well played and more inventive than alot of stuff here, it all flows alright. I guess my maths wasn't as good as I thought, but still what the fuck was that lack of ending all about?
The Worldly Self Assurance: the name is actually a reference, I like some of the others more I think but this is good too, and probably sounds more like a band name than the others. It's a shame Gentlemen Repel Your Jive will never get used but hey. Anyway, this does indeed kick ass, you could pretty much single out any tiny individual element of it and I would love it. The solo is very memorable and I think that's important, cos I have been down on Glenn's solos in the past but (like the My Sharona face melter) this is OTT but in a unique way and hence brilliant. I make no secret of the fact I like my own bits and I love the way Jeremy developed the song part of it. Mel's input here could both be the most easily overlooked and the most important (the rhythm guitar drop out for the 2nd verse is one of the many touches of class that make this track). Consider this jive repelled.
I hate the way I have so much more to say about the track I had a hand in but that's the way it goes big nose.
Furrypedro wrote:
i.p.: Ooh, this is unecpected. I really like this though I get the feeling it won't kick off at any point, whihc is fine but I like tracks that change halfway through. Reminds me of Fog, but richer, I doubt Andy Broder could afford a string section. I hesitate to assume this is all prgrammed, I've had people reply before "no, that's a real flute", but either way it's very nicley done. Good work!
It's entirely real. Check earlier in the thread for the artist accreditations (correct word usage?). Thanks!
i.p. is: James Bean, Lex Butera-Smith and Ivan Becker-Wayman (and some friends now and then).
i.p. on the forums is Lex Butera-Smith
glennny wrote:Sp00n and Syn- I really want to play with Syn. What software is she? This has a dirtier funkier groove than usual. Melody mianders and doesn't really hook. But this is so weird and unusual I find it very appealing.
Furrypedro wrote:Cynthia n tha Spoons: Still going strong I see. This sounds a bit more hard hitting than I remember your stuff being last time I listened, but still as random, cool. The sounds in general are much cooler. the bass sound at about 55s is rad, cymbals are a bit loud. Are you using Reason now by any chance? The beats sound groovier than you used to do.
Okay you guys, thanks for the support, Glenny, I'd love for you to play with Cynthia (Miriam... there's a clue there!), but have no idea how you'd be able to do short of me performing so serious pirating of software and sending you oh so illegal copies (which I have no idea how to do by the way, cause I'm an innocent ), Pete, yes it's pretty much all reason now (reason 3.0) with loads of extra refils that I've either managed to download or have even purchased, the harder sound is something I'm endeavouring to achieve (but Cynthia's a bit wishy washy for that sound... another problem to overcome )
I'd love to do something with you two guys in a collaboration kind of way, (something I've been thinking about for a while now, which would also include Chris (BLT), Charlie (PDS) and Phil (Wages), but this is a grand idea that probably wouldn't be possible for a normal SongFight! thang!)
Anyway thanks once more for the great critisim and kind support, take care guys, all the best as always... spOOn!
P.S. I voted for Worldly Self Assurance (and am thinking of taking up a life policy or even buildings and contents, with your company if you can send me some details, maybe arrange for a representative to come round..... )
), Pete, yes it's pretty much all reason now (reason 3.0) with loads of extra refils that I've either managed to download or have even purchased, the harder sound is something I'm endeavouring to achieve (but Cynthia's a bit wishy washy for that sound... another problem to overcome 
)