The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Personally, I think this is the perfect acid test. The stings sound so much more real on the analog version, to me anyhow. I could almost feel the hairs on the bows breaking loose with every stroke of the quartet during the heavier parts. The single notes of the violin while sounding less digital, still sounded fake for lack of a better word. It did sound a little bit warmer, but still like a synthesized violin if that makes sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is that all of the strings sounded better recorded in analog, particularly as a group of strings, but not so much as a solo. I'm not sure what you could do to that to make it sound more real other than maybe pushing the input signal harder and compressing it more. Hard to say, I don't have any experience with a real violin recording, but I do think that solo violin could be improved upon.

The piano on the other hand sounded better on the digital recording. I liked how much more crisp it sounded. The warming effect actually plays to a disadvantage here because it dulls the sound. So here's what I would like you to do, mix the digital recording of the piano with the analog version of the strings. I personally think that blend is what you're looking for. I look forward to hearing that.

I will try that test for you just give me a day or so. FYI there is one small section where I have real violin mixed with synth. I did that to add depth but the fake is deep inside the mix. Everything else is real violin(s) not played by me however I did write the arrangement.

Any other thoughts/suggestions before I re-do the mix is welcomed.

Eddie

IN this version..

Piano is 100% digital. Strings were recorded from digital, to analog, then brought back to digital and mixed with the piano.

http://www.ratchethaze.com/playingGOD_fostex2.mp3

So.. what do we think?

Eddie

It sounds cool, but the combined digital parts and the analog parts aren't meshing right. Maybe some effect on the master to pull them together, like some form of reverb.
I really think that you need to record on tape, then take it to digital. I know what you said before, but something is changing when you record digital, then run through tape, then back to digital. Maybe too many format changes? . I don't know what it is, but it doesn't sound right. Maybe you need to go out mono to the tape as if you are recording off of a single mic?

What you're doing doesn't make sense...
The whole point of analog is that during the *initial* recording, you can overdrive the signal a bit and saturate the tape. This is what gives analog it's 'warmth'. All you're doing by bouncing a recording back and forth between analog and digital is introducing a bunch of noise into the signal, you're not improving the recording at all, in fact, you're degrading it. You can get a better result by either 1) recording everything analog, then master it to digital (use 48 or 96k and 24 bits to import the master output, if your audio device supports it) or 2) record digital, and use a tube compressor plugin or something like Ozone to give it some fake analog characteristics.

Märk wrote:What you're doing doesn't make sense...
The whole point of analog is that during the *initial* recording, you can overdrive the signal a bit and saturate the tape. This is what gives analog it's 'warmth'. All you're doing by bouncing a recording back and forth between analog and digital is introducing a bunch of noise into the signal, you're not improving the recording at all, in fact, you're degrading it. You can get a better result by either 1) recording everything analog, then master it to digital (use 48 or 96k and 24 bits to import the master output, if your audio device supports it) or 2) record digital, and use a tube compressor plugin or something like Ozone to give it some fake analog characteristics.

I'll buy that. That's what Albini talks about when he says that digital has a ceiling that can never be advanced beyond, where analog can always be pushed further. Not word for word, but something along those lines.

I wanted to add that even if I wanted to record directly analog I couldn't in this case. The violin player is in another country. Again all for fun, just playing with a new toy.

Eddie

Well, I don't know that I agree with Mark - you can record a nice clean signal to digital, and then overdrive it into the analog deck to add some warmth and then copy the warmed up version back to digital. Yeah, some noise will be introduced, although based on the demos I heard, I think there is some sort of grounding issue with Eddie's two-track that should be resolvable.

One question - if the violin player is in another country, does that mean that the violin parts are being sent to you as .mp3 files? That seems like it could affect the sound of those parts, maybe that's even why somebody wrote that they thought they were synth parts.

Charles (KA)

take note I'm on a fostex 8-track now and it's working so much better.

I got the violin tracks, all individual tracks, as .wavs - also there are some fake synth strings in the mix to add depth in certain spots.

Eddie

Hello All, quick update for you. I ended up getting 3rd place in my category for the month with this song. Not sure of how many people entered but I would guess 100+ in each category.

http://www.songoftheyear.com/winners/2008/042008.htm

Eddie

There are many good analog compressor/overdrive/limiter simulation plugins nowadays. Hell, even Abbey Road sells one for way too much money.