Nur Ein VIII Round Five "Firestorm"

[glennny]

Cavedwellers are in.
Have not seen confirmation email, might send again, everyone else get confirmation?

[Caravan Ray]

So who are the three that are gonna help me out and miss the deadline?

You may need help Ross. The stats are against you.

Looking at last weeks list of cumulative percentage of votes collected:

1 Merisan 77.6%
2 Frankie Big Face 74.3%
3 Carlo Bruno Jr. 67.8%
4 Paco del Stinko 67.2%
5 Manhattan Glutton 67.2%
6 Cavedwellers 64.8%
7 The Tydon Docks 63.9%
8 WreckdoM 63.4%
9 Ross Durand 60.5%
10 Balance Lost 56.3%
11 Governing Dynamics 49.1%
12 Chokehold Princess 48.4%

3 out of the 4 eliminations were predicted correctly - but Ross dodged a bullet and increased his ranking at the expense of Wreckdom.


Me, Ross and the Cavedwellers are standing on the precipice this round, with FBF taking the top spot:


1 Frankie Big Face 76.1%
2 Merisan 76.0%
3 Carlo Bruno Jr. 70.9%
4 Paco del Stinko 67.2%
5 Manhattan Glutton 65.1%
6 Cavedwellers 61.5%
7 The Tydon Docks 61.2%
8 Ross Durand 59.0%

[Caravan Ray]

everyone else get confirmation?

No - I didn't get one either

[Caravan Ray]

everyone else get confirmation?

No - I didn't get one either

oops...sorry - looking in wrong email account - I did get one.

[Lunkhead]

The email's been sending since 9:00pm Pacific on my crappy 50kbps upstream DSL.

[Ross]

Me, Ross and the Cavedwellers are standing on the precipice this round, with FBF taking the top spot:


1 Frankie Big Face 76.1%
2 Merisan 76.0%
3 Carlo Bruno Jr. 70.9%
4 Paco del Stinko 67.2%
5 Manhattan Glutton 65.1%
6 Cavedwellers 61.5%
7 The Tydon Docks 61.2%
8 Ross Durand 59.0%

There are three kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Nur Ein!!!!!

[Caravan Ray]

THis is how I would rank them:


1. 1. Manhattan Glutton
This is pretty cool. I realise I rarely rate your songs highly - which is simply due a genre bias on my part - a lot of your stuff has that sort-of Soundgardeny mid-90s American sound which I tend to dislike greatly and makes me overlook your obvious skills. Hearing you go funkydisco is great. Well done

1. 2. Carlo Bruno Jr.
Awesome. More funkydisco! A very close second. Only comment I could offer would be that while your sleazy whispery voice is great - maybe a little more variation in delivery? The backing vox are wonderful, and there is some great random screams etc...Love the cheesy synth and percussion.

1. 3. Ross Durand
Great recording. Guitar, percussion and vox - all mix together really well. Love the lead guitar at 1:45ish. Not entirely convinced on the song - post the lyrics, I'm not sure I follow it.
EDIT:
Just listened again with lyrics...OK now I get it. And it is very good indeed.
In fact - I have re-ranked the top 3 songs in red

4. Paco del Stinko
Ahh, this would be more of that "metal" thing? Love your vox on the verses - sound a bit deeper than I have heard you. Not so sure about the falsetto. Pretty good - but not really my thing.

5. Frankie Big Face
Not sure about this on first listen. It may grow on me. The simple arrangement is refreshing. And certainly well played/recorded. Not sure if the lyrics are enough to make this memorable. Not sure if it is my cheap headphones - but can I hear some weird compression thing of the vox..sort of wavering?

6. Cavedwellers
Reminds me a bit of Phoenix. And I tend to find Phoenix a bit hit and miss - either I love the song (eg. Too Young, Liztomania), or I don't. The individual elements all seem good - not sure if it is gelling into something I want to listen to though

7. Merisan
Nothing really wrong with this. I just found it less interesting than the other songs this week. And certainly the least interesting of your previous entries this Nur Ein

[frankie big face]

5. Frankie Big Face
Not sure about this on first listen. It may grow on me. The simple arrangement is refreshing. And certainly well played/recorded. Not sure if the lyrics are enough to make this memorable. Not sure if it is my cheap headphones - but can I hear some weird compression thing of the vox..sort of wavering?

I noticed it yesterday listening on iPad speakers. So it seems to be more apparent on tinny small speakers than in monitors or higher quality headphones. Still, it's annoying that I missed it in my haste. (Had to write and record on Tuesday night this week.) Thanks for the review.

[BoffoYux]

Tonight I'll be hosting the Nur Ein 8 Round 5 Listening Party on UStream
Show starts at 8 pm EDT. Preshow is starting around 7:30ish.

Drop on in if you have some time. 8 new songs created just for this contest, and we'll whittle them down to 'Only One'.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nur-ein

The chat room is on Chatzy here
http://www.chatzy.com/85010334701393

or irc here at SongFight
http://jan-krueger.net/sf-irc

[Manhattan Glutton]

Carlo - This is awesome. Everything works great together, and I especially like the synth in the later part of the song. My only nitpicks would be with mixing and production - the vocals could go down a notch, the drums could be punchier/crisper, and the backing music could be brighter overall. But the way it is is good too - very retro sounding.

Caved - I have to say the mix sounds better on my headphones, but pretty bad in my car. As a song, I'm really proud of you nailing a hook home with that chorus! The use of challenge is very creative. The falsetto vox are pretty hot, as are most of the one-off instruments. I like the theramin, but it needs to go down or be cut after the verse it's introduced. The intro of the song almost lost me prematurely because the staccato synth is not lined up with something on a couple notes. Overall, I would have rolled back on the use of staccatos, had more sustained instruments on the chorus, cut out one of the solo sections, and probably got rid of two instruments. I really like the slide guitar and none of the instruments are annoying (except the aformentioned synth and theramin at particular times), but with such nice singing it seems a shame to distract so much. Along with that, I would reassess the busy drum beat once the mixing and solo instruments are sorted out a little more. Anyway, despite all those nitpicks, which I'm only elaborating on to help, I think it's a good song with a somewhat avante-pop feel.

Frankie - This is a beautiful song. It almost brought a tear to my reptilian eyes. I will not nitpick your production value or "what could have been with all these other tracks" because I think you are capable of those things if you had time.

Me - Regrets: Not having enough time to fix all the little things, not finding a better bass tone, not having time for better lyrics, not finding a better transition to the final chorus. NO REGRETS: The bridge.

Merisan - I love the slide guitar and drums kicking in. Beautiful vocals, as always. I hope you made the song you want to make. It's a bit slow and sad compared to all the competition, so, for your sake, I hope the judges are open minded about these types of things.

Paco - Someday, I want to hear what happens when you do a song in a major scale. I really like the quiet parts, despite the somewhat weird lyrics. The quiet parts have all the really cool quirky instrumental stuff. It has dawned on me that you might not be doubling your guitar for the loud parts, so you might want to do that in the future, or not, who am I to say?

Ross - I really like what's goin' on here - not sure why Caravan Ray would even place my song alongside this masterpiece. The harmonies kick in at the right time. The solo is the absolute cherry on this delightful cheesecake. Some suggestions - I like the lead guitar in the right ear, but I think you should emphasize it more at some points and then cut it out completely at others. Maybe double the rhythm guitar so it doesn't feel so thin without the lead at those times. The loose feel is great, but some things could be much tighter. The vocals are quite on top of the mix. That's all. Nice work, man.

Tydon - This sounded absolutely awful in my car - like you mixed on pork chops or have lost hearing in your high-range. On my headphones, it's not that bad. I will start off by saying something nice. I think your singing is fantastic - you're one of the better vocalists around here - and the harmonies are really nice. The breakdown in the middle is a really sweet touch, as well. I also always enjoy your bass tone - it's one of your best qualities and you play it well. The biggest problem here is that god-awful shaker - it actually hurts my ears and detracts from the song. The second biggest problem is the mastering - because everything's quiet except for that godforsaken piece of shit shaker. The third problem is the overall spazziness, which is only accentuated by that fucking shaker from fucking hell. I don't have a problem with you, or even the song so much, but the next time you ask yourself, "Do I want to use this piece of shit shaker from hell in my song?" you should just bludgeon yourself to death with it. I ain't even mad, but my ears literally hurt from trying to listen to your song because of that shaker being the only thing I can hear until I turn the volume up to 10, at which point it is piercing my eardrums like Satan's huge throbbing demon-cock. Okay, so I went to great lengths, much to the detriment of my health, to actually listen to your song and give you feedback, and that is the most important feedback you should seriously take to heart. To be fair, you probably didn't notice because you were listening on headphones; to be fair, it's much worse in my car, where the high-end spectrum is much clearer than on even expensive headphones. And I think that might be why your mastering is so quiet - because you might not be noticing that the percussion is so loud and taking up all the headroom in the mix. Anyhow, I swear, moving on - ignoring the shaker from hell for just a few seconds - some honest feedback - double up the guitar and lay back on the drum programming/percussion. Maybe consider slowing the tempo sometimes. That's it. I think that could make you some killer songs.

[Caravan Ray]

The biggest problem here is that god-awful shaker.

Heh! I didn't even notice it. I have quite good headphones - so it is probably my old ears that are the problem. And when I listened to a mix in my car - it sounded muddy from too mamy backing vox - so I cut them a bit, especially the lower frequencies. That probably made the shaker stand out even more. BTW: the shaker wasn't there by choice - it was just a standard off-the-shelf appleloop. I have a vague memory of thinking I probably should remove it - but never got around to it.

Glennny made metion of my crap drums in this too, on the chat thingy. As did one of the reviewers (a very knowledgeable chap whose name I don't recall) for the "I dont wanna know the answer to that" song I entered in songfight.

I really have to start paying more attention to this stuff. Thanks.

[Manhattan Glutton]

Yeah, it's not quite as bad on my headphones. I listened to these songs on repeat on my 2 hour drive today. Sometimes my car stereo gives a dramatically different perspective.

I'm always open to doing remixes to help convey what I'm trying to say, if anyone wants to take me up on that. Not that I'm the source of truth, but sometimes the perspective might help.

[Paco Del Stinko]

It has dawned on me that you might not be doubling your guitar for the loud parts, so you might want to do that in the future, or not, who am I to say?

Heh. I usually do. Here, due mostly to time restraints, I doubled the guitars occasionally and guitar with bass on parts. And I do plenty of stuff in major keys. Perhaps if you actually listened, you might notice, hmm? Am I right? Thought so. Thanks for the comments bro-bro.

I think my song is the easy stinker of the bunch and will go. Joining me will be Tydon Docks and probably...Cavedwellers. Good songs both, and ya never know. But that's my guess. A tough game it is, lady and gentlemen and Caravan Ray.

[frankie big face]

Frankie - This is a beautiful song. It almost brought a tear to my reptilian eyes.

Wow, that's quite a compliment. Unless you were drunk at the time. In which case, it's hard to get you to stop crying.

[Caravan Ray]

A tough game it is, lady and gentlemen and Caravan Ray.

Oh, the pain....the pain.



Just wanted to say I recently bought several series of Lost in Space for my daughter (well, for me actually, but my daughter watches it too). She loves Dr Smith.

[glennny]

Firestorm

I like all of these songs. I love a few of them. There’s no shame in losing to any of them. I put an enormous amount of effort into our songs. We’re swinging for the fences. I’ve done that every week. Seems we got Statistics, C-Ray, Paco, and probably MG voting against us this round. Luckily, those are not the 6 sets of ears we’re aiming to please. Here’s how I like them. Of course I like ours best, and I know I’m not objective, but this felt like a winner to me before the competition tried to tear it down.

Cavedwellers- I think we have a good shot this round. We totally embraced the challenge. I love doing that falsetto stuff. It’s funny before my metal years there was ELO and Earth Wind and Fire, and lots of fashionable falsetto. I think we got the hooks this round. I think we got the J$ efficiency. I think we got the coolest breakdown, and a killer solo. Lee’s vocals and melodies are top notch and certainly my favorite. I always think the mix could be better, but I’m quite fond of how this turned out. At this stage of the game, with the awesome competition, I sought some opinions from the mixing maestro Melvin. He didn’t turn any knobs, but he consulted on the last 3 mixes. So when I’m crushed that MG still hates my mixes, I can glow that Melvin thinks it’s my finest mix. The staccato bloop blip bit was played live on my iPad. So it’s MIDI and can be “fixed” to perfectly line up. I tried that, and I didn’t like it as much as being a little on top of the beat.

Merisan- You don’t have to listen long before say to yourself, as Lee said at the listening party “record deal”. These guys are easy to take for granted, but wow! For the game of Nur Ein I wonder about the strategy of such a slow tempo song. Especially when you know opening for you is Man Glut and you’re followed by Paco. This song stands up on repeated listens. In fact it’s a grower. Every instrument is perfect. Tasteful and restrained, supporting and highlighting the vocals. The acoustic is perfect, the pedal steel is gorgeous. The accordion is wonderful. You’d never know there was a falsetto challenge, the high notes flow perfectly and totally belong with or without the challenge. This is a keeper for the ages.

Carlo Bruno Jr- This is just so fun. Great groove. It takes forever to get to the chorus. Is there a chorus? Sounds like a pre-chorus then a little “fa fa fire”. I guess I call it more of a refrain. But I mean it’s all about disco dancing anyway. The beat goes on….. I love the sound of the band. The vocals are cool. The lyrics are ridiculous, but it works for a funky disco jam.

Ross Durand- Nice dobro solo! I’m a sucker for folksy story telling. This is a solid song. Not the most clever chord pattern, but fine. The instrumentation is what I really love about this song. Fine playing, great mix. Your vocals are excellent as well.

Paco del Stinko- Stinker? With those vocals? The yell vocals are incredible atop the heavy sinister riffs. I’m a big fan. I can listen to PDS all day (and have done so). You certainly embraced the challenge. The falsetto is hilarious. The echoes are super tasty on the guitars. The dynamics are just wonderful. I wish that end solo was 4 times as long. Great track! Wish you liked it as much as me. Or I should say I hope the judges like it as much as I do.

Man Glut- Dude! You are an awesome producer! I love that bass tone. I agree with you that the lyrics are weak. I’m not sold on your funky vocals. I think you should have played the vocals as you, and not tried to James Brown them up. I cringe a little. I hate the hand claps. I think if you played this more like Cake vocally it would have been a knock out. I like the drum sounds, but I really don’t like the drum patterns at some moments. They sound programmed. This is a quality song. I won’t be surprised if it wins, or if it gets eliminated. It’s all about how it works for the judges.

Tydon Docks- Okay we’ve beaten up on the drums. I love the thick accent for the vocals. The bass line is nice. There’s the usual Caravan Ray nice melodies along the way, but no real hooks. Plenty of attitude. It’s an alright listen, but it’s not one of your more inspired songs.

Frankie Big Face- You will probably get away with this. It’s a fine song. This sounds like a demo. The strumming is sloppy, it accompanies the vocals fine I guess. Great melody. As always, great vocals. I know all the reasons, the lack of time etc. I just don’t think this guy and guitar piece stands up on its own. It’d be nice to hear it fleshed out with rhythm section and some lead instruments and backing vocals. But you’re the champ, you’re Picasso, if anyone can get away with this it is you.

NUR EIN!!!!!

[furrypedro]

Alright, I'm back, I'm back. Everything's cool just chill.

Carlo: Catchy, good falsetto. I like the synth best. Danceable.

Cavedwellers: Smooth. Almost reminds me of Jordan Seavers, also a little bit of Islands in that you're squeezing an awful lot of sonic colour into the song. This is a bit of a double-edged sword as it gives lots to discover on repeated listens but sounds a touch over-egged the first few times.

F. Big Face: This is totally fine but there's nothing really in the chords or vocal melody/meter that piques my interest, possibly with the exception of the falsetto bit so in that respect it's a good job. I do like the "inflammable suit" line.

Man Glut: I like this a lot. My immediate reaction is that the groove sounds like Cake, ain't nothing wrong with that. The groove is good and I like how you've got lots of alternating guitar parts and they compliment each other without interfering or making the song sound cluttered - a bit like Yes' Owner of a Lonely Heart (it doesn't sound like that song but has a similar production approach). The song develops well. The outro saves the song from wandering too much into INXS territory.

Merisan: Really nice. Super super nice. Totally nice. Nicey nice. I'm fidgeting. Nice.

Paco: What is this song actually about? Monumental ejaculation? I like the incredible overfuzziness of the left guitar.

Ross: The sound of your left guitar is also very good. This has a bit of a drunken afternoon party song feel. Not too drunken though, it's too tight for that. But it's sounds like you started playing the song and then everyone around you picked up an instrument and joined in. Well done.

Tydon Docks: Thank you for the lyric links. Although even without understanding what they're about they are by far the most interesting lyrics in the fight. The music's pretty good, upbeat and fun. I hope you go through as this is the most entertaining song this fight.

[glennny]

@Mangattan Glutton- Hey man, thanks for the detailed review! That's one of the best reviews I've ever received. Some positivity nods, and plenty critical for well defined reasons. I appreciate the effort and thoughtfulness! I'm curious if all of my mixes sound bad to you? I just listened in my truck, and I still really like our mix. So realitive to my other mixes is this among the better ones? Thanks again!

@ Furrypedro- Islands and Jordon Seavers are some very high compliments to be compared with. Thanks!
Unrelated- just saw TTNG on Saturday, their banter reminded me a lot of you, not to mention their amazing Math Rock. If you haven't heard them yet, I'm sure you'll be a fan.

[Manhattan Glutton]

probably MG voting against us this round.

In my handy dandy notebook, I don't predict you going this round. I think you have a 10 to 20% chance of being cut. I think there are 2 or 3 locked into the top (not you) and 1 or 2 locked into the bottom (not you). The bottom picks for the judges will be difficult and I wouldn't be surprised no matter the outcome.

So when I’m crushed that MG still hates my mixes, I can glow that Melvin thinks it’s my finest mix.

To clarify - if we pretend that mixing is like arranging the furniture in a room, then for the most part your Mix Proper is adequate because all the furniture fits and is visible. I would mostly use the mix to accomplish what should have probably been done in editing - like place the loveseat over the leopard skin carpet so it doesn't distract too much from the beautiful tapestry, and hide the fifteenth Lay-Z-Boy in the closet where it can only stare at you menacingly through the cracks.

So it’s MIDI and can be “fixed” to perfectly line up. I tried that, and I didn’t like it as much as being a little on top of the beat.

This is definitely not the first time your intro has turned me off due to off-beat shenanigans. The intro is your chance to draw in a listener or scare them into hitting skip, and you leave something off-beat "because you like it"? Bah. What am I to do with you? Your mother loved you too much.

You are an awesome producer!

I feel like on some freudian level that is a backhanded compliment coming from you, but thanks. I have added it to my list of quotes.

I’m not sold on your funky vocals. I think you should have played the vocals as you, and not tried to James Brown them up. [...]I think if you played this more like Cake vocally it would have been a knock out.

My demo audience told me that my first vocal takes were too "disinterested" and not "energetic" enough. I figured since I was going for some outrageous lyrics - may as well be outrageous. I was going for an Electric Six vibe with this song, and they are quite ridiculous, but... yeah... as we've already agreed my lyrics could probably improve, point taken.

I hate the hand claps. [...] I really don’t like the drum patterns at some moments

The hand claps are my favorite part! At first I tried doing live claps, but they sounded stupid. I needed some good ol' synth claps and had to look long and hard for them! I agree there are some drum parts that could use tweaking, but I think some of the hi-hat work is my best programming since last year around this time. I'm finally warmed up! Drum programming modules fully engaged! 1/32nd diddles activated! C'mon, glen! Take a seat on the floor tom! We're flying to the moon!

[glennny]

@Manhattan Glutton- in all seriousness, I think you're among the best producers. No backhands in the compliment.

This particular track of ours has a lot of tracks. I did an enormous amount of editing. I agree removing some instruments at some points might be stronger, I tried every combination for every section and went with what I thought was the strongest. You would have a field day remixing and arranging, there's a lot to choose from. I'd love to hear what you'd do with the tracks, I intend on taking you up on the remix offer, post competition.

I should also mention there are mostly moments where your drum programming is excellent, just a few moments that take me out of it.

What I really hope for is some Nur Ein magic where the scores are such that more than 5 advance. I hate to see anyone go.

Nur Ein!!!!!

[frankie big face]

@Glen and Furry Pedro - thank for the reviews! This is one of those situations where if I'm out with this song, well....at least I'm happy with the song. I really like my song this week and maybe the arrangement is not what you are looking for but it suited the song and my (lackof)timeframe. I can certainly imagine it being fleshed out but sometimes I like to strip things down, especially when I have a lyric I'm happy with. Glen, I'm sorry the strumming comes across as sloppy---I recorded guitar and vocals simultaneously and I thought it was pretty good but I think you and I have different standards when it comes to such things.

I haven't listened to the songs yet but I will post some reviews when I do later tonight.

[Manhattan Glutton]

I'm curious if all of my mixes sound bad to you?

Because I don't feel like doing work today yet -
As I elaborated in my previous post, I don't think you necessarily technically have bad mixes, but you tend to use your mix to emphasize the wrong things. I think it's really hard to add something to a mix and then send it to the back of the mix, because you're actively listening for it. Because you add so many things you suffer from trying to mix every little quirky instrument to the front. And in doing so, you end up burying the tracks that are actually holding up the song. There's a reason a Christmas tree is bigger and stronger than its ornaments.

On a quick run-through of your songs this NE - what stands out to me is your vocals are usually loud compared to the rhythm instruments, rather than nestling them in a little more. It's a pretty fine line, I think. "I Don't Want An Answer To That" is one of the better ones, but that tambourine is quite annoying (see my review of Caravan Ray this round).

I think that this round, your overall sound is probably a little worse than your average. The vocals are not only a bit loud, but they appear to be EQ'd up in the upper frequencies, making them even louder. The other part of this is that your mastering in this song is giving everything a dulling lacquer, which is okay sometimes but makes it stick out from the rest of the pack.