The Song Fight Bulletin Board

C-Ray, you may have a point. The drums and guitars are the same tempo throughout, but the vocal line does seem to somewhat double there. But then it's that way for all the rest of the verses and the chorus is regular time.

I wouldn't call the song double time. However I would say the vocals are done in "double time feel" during most of the verses.

Ok, genuinely not trying to be an ass here - I see your point, but….

Since pretty much the whole rest of that song proceeds in that feel, I would genuinely argue that what you really have is an intro in half-time.

I only argue this because it seems to me that double time is in reference to an exception to the dominant "feel" or "Tempo" of the rest of the song - depending on the definition. So yes, I agree that the "Hurricane" line is double compared to the "that's great it starts" line.

Ross wrote:Ok, genuinely not trying to be an ass here - I see your point, but….

Since pretty much the whole rest of that song proceeds in that feel, I would genuinely argue that what you really have is an intro in half-time.

I only argue this because it seems to me that double time is in reference to an exception to the dominant "feel" or "Tempo" of the rest of the song - depending on the definition. So yes, I agree that the "Hurricane" line is double compared to the "that's great it starts" line.

Fair enough - I was only thinking of the first verse. Yes - it is a song with a "half-time" intro.

As opposed to "Heroin" by Velvet Underground (which I have been thinking of a lot, due to the title), which I am guessing isn't an example of "double time" - it just simply gets faster, then slows down again, then gets faster again - ie a gradual varying of tempos, rather than a jump to "double time". Would that be right?

Ok, genuinely not trying to be an ass here - I see your point, but….

Since pretty much the whole rest of that song proceeds in that feel, I would genuinely argue that what you really have is an intro in half-time.

I only argue this because it seems to me that double time is in reference to an exception to the dominant "feel" or "Tempo" of the rest of the song - depending on the definition. So yes, I agree that the "Hurricane" line is double compared to the "that's great it starts" line.

I completely agree with you Ross, sorry C Ray, I should have said that.

I have always thought of double time as abrupt - like that Tom petty thing tag Jon Eric posted

Damn, though, Heroin is a good song.

But I agree, I would not call it double time.

Freebird might be an example. not sure if it is an exact doubling - but it sure is a similar approach.

It's almost as if it's kind of subjective, and we'll be held to five different subjective interpretations of it, with varying degrees of penalties for not meeting each judge's individual subjective interpretation of the challenge.

Lunkhead wrote:It's almost as if it's kind of subjective, and we'll be held to five different subjective interpretations of it, with varying degrees of penalties for not meeting each judge's individual subjective interpretation of the challenge.

What!?!?!? That is unheard of!

Since none of the other judges have weighed in yet, I'll go a little bit further to clarify. Normally, I wouldn't want to share this kind of behind-the-scenes info, but since there appears to be a heated debate surrounding the implementation of this challenge, I figure a little more background information could only help.

This challenge is actually something of a hybrid. One judge proposed some kind of "fast lyrics" challenge (in the vein of "End of the World As We Know It" or "Subterranean Homesick Blues"). Another judge suggested a simple double-time shift (like in "Don't Come Around Here No More" or "Shine"). The result of combining these two seems to have been to confuse at least a few of the remaining competitiors. For my part, I do not intend to give multiple listens with a metronome and a calculator to make sure everything is in true "double time" or "double-time feel." I strongly doubt the other judges will either - ain't nobody got time for that.

Put another way: I'm won't listen for a doubling and then dock someone for shifting from 90 bpm to 175, if that's what you want to do. I know what a shift to double time sounds like, and I've posted a number of examples, some of which rank among my all time favorite songs. I'll be listening for something that sounds kind of like that, and I'll be listening for some kind of signifier that the lyrics are also somehow "faster" as well. Probably more words, or maybe you'll just repeat a previous section faster or something. As always, I do not speak for all five, but I can tell y'all that I'm not planning on being picky for this one.

I'm not a judge, I'm no longer in the competition, but of all the challenges ever in Nur Ein, this is probably the least subjective. I find it hilarious that the issue has been muddied. I bet Ken is biting his tongue and being driven up a wall if he's glanced at this exchange. The challenge was clearly stated, the definitions are clearly defined. It's simple math. It doesn't say significant tempo increase, it says double time. It doesn't say double time or double time feel, it just says double time. Though if I were a judge I'd give a pass to double time feel. Which is also a mathematical and precise thing.

I'm gonna not ask any questions about the challenge cos it seems pretty clear cut, and write as good as song as I can incorporating that challenge in as best a way as I can.

Is that allowed?

furrypedro wrote:I'm gonna not ask any questions about the challenge cos it seems pretty clear cut, and write as good as song as I can incorporating that challenge in as best a way as I can.

Is that allowed?

Nope, that kind of thinking gets you disqualified 'round here.

I feel like "double time" ought to be pretty objective, and have a denotation, "double the tempo", but, the tempo applies to the entire song, as far as I understand, not separately to the instruments and the vocals, so, "double time vocals" is where I feel like I'm interpreting something versus just going off the dictionary definition, personally.

My song alternates between 130 and 260bpm.

However, I was ready to do vocals tonight and am instead lying on the couch with a throbbing head and swollen throat. The whole family succumbed to the tummy flu this week and we're still coming out of it. It's amazing that I was able to record what I've done. It's pretty rough around the edges. Will the vocals get done in time? I took three ibuprofen. We'll see.

BenKrieger wrote:My song alternates between 130 and 260bpm.

However, I was ready to do vocals tonight and am instead lying on the couch with a throbbing head and swollen throat. The whole family succumbed to the tummy flu this week and we're still coming out of it. It's amazing that I was able to record what I've done. It's pretty rough around the edges. Will the vocals get done in time? I took three ibuprofen. We'll see.

You've still got 26.5 hours. Good luck and godspeed!

NUR EIN!!!!!

And I'm in.

Time to go to bed.

In. NUR EUN!!!!!

You're such a tease.

Exhibition Cavedwellers track sent to Niveous.
Not sure if that was okay or not.

Hey you know what's awesome? Not having to make this song. I'm going to play video games now.

I'm in. Oh boy.

Not in yet, but we will be. We recorded this one at our AirBnB apartment in LA.

I'm in. My song is in a regular tempo of about 132 BPM in the verses and double time in the choruses, as well as half time (or so I guess) during the post-chorus/bridge thing.