The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Tuba Toothpaste wrote:Jim Jones

If you can find a copy of the song "Guyana Punch" by The Judy's, it covers the same theme and it's a very fun song to boot.

erikb wrote:
If you can find a copy of the song "Guyana Punch" by The Judy's, it covers the same theme and it's a very fun song to boot.

When I was in college marching band we had a trombone player named Jim Jones. The after-game parties included a volatile concoction known as "Guyana Punch" which Jim diligently ladled out to those in line. Morbid but funny.

I'll have to track down the song you refer to sometime.

Tuba Toothpaste wrote: Reverend Jones explained to everyone that after they died they would all hitch up with a spaceship that was travelling in the tail of the Hale-Bopp Comet ("ride a shooting star").

I think that you are conflating acouple of different cults. The Heaven's Gate cult was the one that thought there was a space ship in the tail of comet Hale-Bopp. they also all killed themeselves (or were killed)

sdurand wrote:
I think that you are conflating acouple of different cults.

Darn, I always feel bad when I conflate cults. Thanks for the correction. He did think they would go to another planet, though, for a life of bliss (at least that's what my internet sources say - but then, I'm an internet source now and I had it wrong)

Tuba Toothpaste wrote:Well, I got a lot of attention...

But did you get a lot of attenuation ??

I did up a different mix of mine this weekend. I have taken some (but not all) fight thread feedback, to . There's even a clearmountain pause. Is it a faux pas to post a link? I'm not very fluent when it comes to messageboard-speak or etiquette.

jack wrote:roy:Awesome feedback

Thanks, JS. I take it to heart when people point me places and suggest fountains of useful resources. It may be that it's time to get off the guy and guitar schtick and back into treatments and effects and heavy production. My wife likes the mood I'm in when I'm feeling good about my music (lately) so I don't get those stares after a night with 2 hours sleep...so I can spend the time all that takes. But I've learned a bit about mic'ing guitars.

Minty Handy wrote: ...the clearmountain pause needed a little more building prior, and needed to be two beats longer. It also needed to be placed once only, at 3:25, in order to truly be a clearmountain pause, I think. But it's in there, and that's a good thing.

Funny, I wasn't going for this clearmountain pause thing, not being sure what the heck it was in the first place. The song wanted to do what it did. I now know it belows on the shelf next to "Sturm und Drang" and "picardi third" and that sudden crash in late period classical, which evades me at the moment.

boltoph wrote: I did up a different mix of mine this weekend. I have taken some (but not all) fight thread feedback, to . There's even a clearmountain pause. Is it a faux pas to post a link? I'm not very fluent when it comes to messageboard-speak or etiquette.

It's totally cool to post links to remixes. I'd love to hear it.

Thanks Roymond! I wasn't sure if it would be tainting and such, since the mix that I submitted was the only one I had time to do in the proper week's deadline and is the one that should be considered for the fight. I may wait for a couple days to post it. It's pretty much the same except with the pause, and just sounds "bigger" overall, with a better room ambience and a bit more life in the guitars.

REVIEWS:

Astrolamb: I really like the music, but I think the vocals are a little too high up in the mix. I like the change up, but could have done without the solo.

Boltoph: I dig this one, but again I don't dig the solo or the distorted guitar breakdown, they don't feel like they fit. But, it is a possible vote from me.

FatherBingo: Wow, the poppy (as in sound, not genre) guitar sounds pretty neat, what is it? The instrumental is cool, but I kinda feel like it needs lyrics to be a real contender. Not that I don't like instrumentals (I really like them), but SongFight seems like the entries should have vocals.

Hopeoath/Suspicion: I can't really get into this one. That's just my personal preference showing its face...

Luke Henley: Really quiet, but it sounds really good. I like the "I'm playing and singing alone in my room at 2am" feel to it. I may vote for this one.

Nigel Bibbet: The chord changes are pretty cool, everything sounds pretty well mixed. That weird feedback a little past halfway was kind of annoying, but who am I to talk about annoying. There is that feedback again . . .

Roymond: The strings mixed with the guitar have a really good sound to them. The change-up after 1:30 is pretty neat, too. I might vote for this one . . . "My pride's off the chart" haha! That's an awesome line.

Charcoal: phasing (or whatever that effect is called) on a guitar (or anything) always makes me dislike a song, even if it is over 8 minutes long.

Rusty Iguana: Did you get your inspiration for Werkenhorse's 'Everybody Now' song?

TubaToothpaste: Nothing really stands out for me personally . ..


My vote: Luke Henley

Niv's Review Paragraph.

Nigel is first to die. I love how brits say Eggs & Toast. We'll wake the wildlife is an awesome life. Definite front runner for the vote. I love this song. Hard act to follow. Who's the unlucky one? 8 minutes of Charcoal. I see he's going the Cure route which is a smart way to go. This may be a fight after all. Two minutes in and no words, this could lose me soon. Five minutes in and I'm done. I thought I heard some words hidden in there but this is just getting tedious now. Next. Wow HO&S has brought a mix that is as bright as piss. Wow this is so upbeat that it's almost nauseating. I can almost see the Monkees doing this song. Clearmountain Pause! I'm undecided on that one. 50/50 so far. Next, Roymond brings a mix of King Arthur & Josh Woodward and a touch of Broadway. The cello sounds are great. That alone may get my vote. Uck- swell. But this is an incredible song. A contender for the vote. Sorry Nigel, it's a fight now. Tuba Toothpaste is next and it's getting on my nerves very quickly. Die with me, come fly with me. Oh, that's a terrible lyric. This is boring and uninteresting and some of the lyrics are atrocious. Next, Awerkenhouse brings the White Stripes. For such a short song, this greats repetitive very quickly. Still a two band fight. Next, Father B-I-N-GO. I smell instrumental. It's an interesting song with some surf-rock elements but I don't see how this is "Die For Me". Instrumental=no vote. Boltoph's next and the usual rock pinings are here but his time with Deshead has subdued him a bit. This is the ballad of the Boltoph 80's metal album. But it's not stellar ballad like Extreme's "More Than Words" or Motley Crue's "Without You". This is the mediocre other ballad on the album, like Extreme's "Song for Love" or Motley Crue's "Time for Change". It's an okay tune, but it's just not a single and singles win songfights. LUKE! I think Mr. Henley's name should be shorted just to the first name, capitalized at all times and followed by an explanation point. This is a very simple li'l g^2 song. Where's the catch? There has to be a twist. There's always one in a LUKE! song. Other than some missed notes, I'm not finding the twist. That was disappointing. Next, Astrolamb continues to be Devo. You completely wasted an opportunity for a good clearmountain pause. That was alright. Not bad, Astrolamb. Next, Rusty Iguana who doesn't own any drums and is banging a pencil on a desk while playing with the voice synthesizer. You get the "At least you had fun making it" award for this week. Voting time. Tough one. I'm giving it to Roymond, followed by Nigel Bibbet and HO&S.

Niveous wrote:Niv's Review Paragraph.
Roymond brings a mix of King Arthur & Josh Woodward and a touch of Broadway. The cello sounds are great. That alone may get my vote. Uck- swell. But this is an incredible song. A contender for the vote. Sorry Nigel, it's a fight now. ...
I'm giving it to Roymond, followed by Nigel Bibbet and HO&S.[/i]

I get ribbed about certain phrases and often I deserve it, but this one fits perfectly within the middle-American landscape of comfortable conformist turned warrior. It was swell, gee whiz. But now he'd die for me.

Anyway, your reviews are awesome, of course. Thanks.

The twist is that there is no twist!

ROK!!

WeaselSlayer wrote:The twist is that there is no twist!

And that is why LUKE! is the Baddest MF'er around. Belee Dat!

Daj Werkenhorse 1 wrote:FatherBingo: Wow, the poppy (as in sound, not genre) guitar sounds pretty neat, what is it?

That's a bass with a blend of eleven herbs and spices of effects.

I appreciate the commentary on my own song - thanks all.

A Werkenhorse - Still my vote. I like the simplicity and the rough edges. I like the abrupt end. I like it.

Boltoph: I can tell this is good, it just isn't working for me. There are some parts I'm fairly fond of though - the guitar bits playing in the background, the building muted string section running into the solo, and the end of the solo where you think it's done and it kind of hangs out a few moments . . . that's good stuff according to these ears.

Charcoal: While I was listening to this, I forgot about it and it played about 5 times. That may not sound good, but trust me when I say that I cannot ignore when something I don't like is playing . . . so I guess that means I liked this.

Father Bingo: Whereas Charcaol's intrumental sounded like an intrumental, this sounded like a song waiting for lyrics to me. I like the keys in the background - I've been trying to figure out how to work keys into my stuff and it hasn't worked out at all - so nice job!

Hope Oath And Suspicion: This was my favorite chorus of the fight. I enjoyed the little lead guitar parts as well. I thought the vocals could be a little more upfront, but overall they were very well done. Not a big fan of handclapping - it always forces bad John Cougar Melloncamp memories - but that is strictly my opinion and not any qualitative judgemen.

Luke Henley: This sounds like maybe your room-mates were in the other room and you didn't want them to hear you singing. Normally I wouldn't mind, but it sounds like there's a good song there that wants to be heard . . . let us hear it!

Nigel Bibbet: Nicely done.

Roymond: Whoa. Yer like one of dem moozishuns, aint ya? No seriously this is really good. And the cello no less . . . impressive. This is second to Workenhorse only by virtue of my personal tastes. Great stuff.

Rusty Iguana: Er. I guess I can understand what it is you were trying to do. But the art of noise is harder than it may sound.

Tuba Toothpaste: I wasn't really a big fan of this until I read your explanation about it . . . now I like it.

last week someone posted responses to all of his reviews; i thought it was a great idea, so here we go...

roymond wrote:<b>Hope, Oath, and Suspicion</b>
This is a bit too good-feely for its own good. Could be...darker still. It's also just too repetitive. Oh, OK, nice break down towards the ending. Still too repetitive.

i'm glad you liked the breakdown. as for the repetitiveness, it could have been way worse: i only wrote the first verse, which is really repetitive and 8LO took off from there. later, i figured out why: i sing along with the guitar rhythm i'm playing and it's hard to do otherwise. so, he was free from strumming and came up with that great second verse which is really almost in counter rhythm to the first.

pegor wrote:Hopeoath - oh, that’s what the title was referring to. Well balanced tone color (huh?) in the composition. The single clean little guitar hook is perfect pop. I couldn’t make out the words threw the whole thing - maybe a headphone issue maybe a mix issue.

i find it rather odd that so many people find HO&S songs so popppy. i don't really set out to write pop songs, but it seems to be the unexpected fruit of this collaboration. 8LO, do you produce these like pop songs? if i find anything really signature about my songwriting (beyond an incapacity to sing in tune easily) it's the lead guitar bits i write. sometimes i worry about them being too alike, though.

EightLeggedOedipus wrote:Hope, Oath, and Suspicion
--- really hate this singer ---
+++ The chord progression is nice. The slight backing vocals on the chorus make it +++
/// Lead guitar is a little too loud, but I dig the echo. The arrangemetn could stand a varied beat somewhere or a key change in a bridge ///
+++ Clearmountain Pause! +++

--- really really hate the first guy who sang this ---
+++ thank you; it's a simple I IV V in C, basically, but i have fun with F chords.
/// that echo really is something else. i love how it bounces around in my brain. something to mix this up (other than the breakdown) would probably have done this good, but i usually prefer to keep my compositions simple. chuck it back to me next time, i'll see what i can do.///
+++ yeah baby! +++

WeaselSlayer wrote:Hope, Oath, and Suspicion - Shit, that junky guitar sounds great. This has a great driving but light and playful sound to it while still having this twist of melancholy. I really like the vocals and the echo-y guitar in addition to the rest of it. The conclusion with the handclaps goes a smidgen too cheesy, but other than that this is really solid.

i think that balance of playfulness and melancholy was what i was really going for. it's the 1-2 drumbeat, i think, that makes this quite so light. i have to improve in my programming. but, actually, i really really like the handclaps and the final chorus which just rocks out.

MintyHandy wrote:Hope, Oath and Suspicion

Musically it kicks off great; could have done without "Judas" being the first word, though; makes it seem like it's going to be more self-indulgent than it ultimately turned out, you had to win me back. I find the high guitar noodling (early on, then after the signature line) to be annoyingly high and thin. Overall I like it, though, especially starting at 1:26, when the extra drum and your higher singing kick in, and suddenly that high guitar isn't too high any more. Solid. The part with the telephone voice doesn't work as much for me, though, as I liked your voice the way it was. You know, I don't normally like religious-imagery songs, but this works. Hooray for hand claps! And...

...the clearmountain pause needed more hanging tension, and to come back stronger. But you got it in there, so bravo!

why is it people have a slight bias against songs with religious imagery? i'm not a religious person, but i find stories and images from religious texts to be some of the most powerful ones to reference. too erudite, maybe? how would suggest there be more tension in the pause? don't mean to seem antagonistic, thanks for the positive review!

boltoph wrote:Hope, Oath, & Suspicion Jammin right from the start, I like the straight 1-2 drum groove and this is damn catchy and going real well with the sunny warm day and I feel like just cruisin the streets listening to this. Hard to have constructive comments unless you want my production thoughts. In which case the vocals are way to goddamn quiet. I need more vocals, because they sound great, catchy. That and a bridge that moved faster and had a change in the rhythm might make this song move in a exciting direction. I think dying in this tune is being seen as a welcome escape from life. Good catch on the title too. Really sticks to my brain, too.

yay for catchiness! 8LO did a great job of making my orginal chorus simpler and catchier, i think (i had a very country croon with "i want you to die for me / i want you to come back"). he took out some syllables, and ditched the twang, but kept the essence and it works really well. another vote for some kind of change-up; i agree - see above.

Daj Werkenhorse 1 wrote:Hopeoath/Suspicion: I can't really get into this one. That's just my personal preference showing its face...

well, this happens. but could you elaborate a bit more on what about your personal preferences keep you from liking it? for example, i don't like most rap. i don't connect with most of the vocals or even really their delivery b/c i prefer singing. i find the production on many rap songs to be simplistic and i disagree with the macho/misogynistic/materialistic stance that many rappers espouse. on the other hand, good rap is really good and i can enjoy it b/c it either avoids these cliches/pitfalls or has an interesting/novel take on them.

Niveous wrote:Next. Wow HO&S has brought a mix that is as bright as piss. Wow this is so upbeat that it's almost nauseating. I can almost see the Monkees doing this song. Clearmountain Pause! I'm undecided on that one. 50/50 so far.

the Monkees? well, okay, i wasn't aiming for THAT popppy. but, yeah, 8LO snuck that pause in towards the last minute and when i got the mix i was just blown away. too cool.

astrolamb wrote:Hope Oath And Suspicion: This was my favorite chorus of the fight. I enjoyed the little lead guitar parts as well. I thought the vocals could be a little more upfront, but overall they were very well done. Not a big fan of handclapping - it always forces bad John Cougar Melloncamp memories - but that is strictly my opinion and not any qualitative judgemen.

more cheers for catchy choruses! you know, i was probably channelling a little john mellencamp when i was thinking of this arrangement but i was thinking most consciously about sheryl crow. i love clapping breakdowns b/c they evoke good live performances for me, especially a few indigo girls shows that i've been to.

so, thank you to everyone for the reviews, which were by and large quite positive. big thanks to 8LO for his singing and production work. let's review:

/// very poppy, largely due to the 1-2 drum beat, and repetitive chorus ///
+++ catchy and a clearmountain pause that works and isn't gratiuitous +++
--- repetitive; needs some kind of key or timing change ---

why is it people have a slight bias against songs with religious imagery? i'm not a religious person, but i find stories and images from religious texts to be some of the most powerful ones to reference.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can speak for me, and since you asked, here goes: religion is a very powerful and important thing to the majority of the world, and has been for a long time. Thus, it has been mined as creative inspiration by many many many people over the years, and anything you do that's less than pure genius is going to come off as cliched and simplistic. Far better to find God in a piece of string, then write about that.

My favorite example of such things is "Birdhouse In Your Soul" (They Might Be Giants) -- a song that arguably turns a child's nightlight into the tragic embodiment of a maker-figure watching over and protecting us in what is ultimately a thankless task. Seriously. This is also an example of wrapping very sad and lonely lyrics into a bright, uptempo musical wrapper.

Also a good example of mining the depths of religion without being cliched: books by Orson Scott Card.

how would suggest there be more tension in the pause?

I meant more tension built up before the pause, so that you're itching for it to resolve while it pauses. Incidentally, if I knew how to add that tension, it'd be called a Minty Pause. Heh.

Niveous wrote:This is the ballad of the Boltoph 80's metal album.

I might have to remix with alot more reverb on everything, snare and vox especially (gated verb on the snare), but will also probably have to sing the vocals an octave higher and then add synths as well! I'll thin out the main guitars a little bit too and play guitar again with more artificial harmonics. Should've used my Carvin flying V to record it...Damn. I wish I had had that vision