The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Kapitano wrote: Essentially, he's telling us God is on his side.

It's not true that whoever claims to speak for god controls all christians - that's obviously never been true. But organised religion involves a human power structure - people like Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson use the authority of God to justify their pronouncements. Bush is playing the same game.

Good. There are thinking and moral christians just as there are unthinking and immoral atheists.

yea... you have some decent points... but to say that was the only reason christians voted for him would be off... he just obviously stands behind there beliefs... he's against abortion and many of the things the christian belief upholds... so of course they are goin' vote for something that is stronger on there stances... that's just sort of common sense...

wether or not that makes them retarded or not... it does make sense for them to go for what they agree with more...

Poor June wrote:...he just obviously stands behind there beliefs... he's against abortion and many of the things the christian belief upholds... so of course they are goin' vote for something that is stronger on there stances...

You speak as though christianity had a fixed set of moral beliefs. These are all forbidden in the bible:

Abortion
Eating shellfish
Cutting hair short
Eating eagle flesh
Sodomy
Nature worship
Transvesticism
Wearing mixed fibres
Crop rotation

How many of these does any presidential candidate rail against? When was the last time you heard a firey sermon on the evils of prawn sandwiches?

Would you expect a christian believer to vote for a candidate who vowed to ban anyone with defective vision from church? Or who proposed a law to quarantine any man who slept next to his mensturating wife? No. Both of these are non-issues, though both are levitical laws.

Incidentally, abortion may be forbidden by the bible, but infanticide is commonly approved of.

Kapitano wrote:abortion may be forbidden by the bible, but infanticide is commonly approved of

I didn't realize there was a difference. Apparently I'm pro-baby-murder.

Puce wrote:

Kapitano wrote:abortion may be forbidden by the bible, but infanticide is commonly approved of

I didn't realize there was a difference. Apparently I'm pro-baby-murder.

Don't worry about it. I'm told masturbation is mass baby murder. Or mass murder of potential babies.

http://www.cookingwithpotentialbabies.com/....?

i'm not saying it's right to ban a lot of things... (i don't agree with abortion) but... i was just saying most christians would go with the canididate that shared more of there views... neither canididate is goin' to share all...

Kapitano wrote:

Puce wrote:

Kapitano wrote:abortion may be forbidden by the bible, but infanticide is commonly approved of

I didn't realize there was a difference. Apparently I'm pro-baby-murder.

Don't worry about it. I'm told masturbation is mass baby murder. Or mass murder of potential babies.

http://www.cookingwithpotentialbabies.com/....?

the bible doesn't even mention masturbation.

fodroy wrote:

Kapitano wrote:

Puce wrote: I didn't realize there was a difference. Apparently I'm pro-baby-murder.

Don't worry about it. I'm told masturbation is mass baby murder. Or mass murder of potential babies.

http://www.cookingwithpotentialbabies.com/....?

the bible doesn't even mention masturbation.

yea on top of that considering masturbation up there with abortion is ludicrous... it's coming out one way or another... it isn't a potential life... till it is conceived...
soooo... i don't know...

fodroy wrote:the bible doesn't even mention masturbation.

Oh it does. The story of Onan, who 'spilled his seed upon the ground'. Hence 'onanism'.

I forget exactly where in the torah it is. It's been years since I did theology - but I'll find out. Just for you .

-----

Yes, here it is. Genesis 38:8-10:

38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Here's an explanation:
http://www.hobrad.com/ando.htm#ONAN

So strictly speaking, masturbastion isn't mentioned in the bible, but coitus interruptus is, though the story of Onan is the usual justification for attacking masturbation. I stand corrected by fodroy.

so as long as God doesn't tell you to knock someone up instead, masturbation is ok i guess. at least the bible doesn't say it's not.

of course then again you could see it as self-gratification... but it just depends on how you wanna look at it i suppose haha...

i don't know how this got into a religious debate haha... but very interesting

and masturbation can involve lust which is a sin.

fodroy wrote:so as long as God doesn't tell you to knock someone up instead, masturbation is ok i guess. at least the bible doesn't say it's not.

I just checked with the Qu'oran, and it doesn't seem to be mentioned there either. Although you are permitted to expose yourself to wives and slaves if you 'possess them with your right hand"

23:1-6: Successful indeed are the believers...who guard their modesty. Save from their wives or the slaves that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy.

and what exactly does it mean to "posess someone with your right hand?"

fodroy wrote:and what exactly does it mean to "posess someone with your right hand?"

Well I...erm...it must mean...um...

Oh my! Where have those new songs got to?!

Kapitano wrote:38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

That was hot.

I think Kleenex of Onan would be a good heavy metal band name

Caravan Ray wrote:I think Kleenex of Onan would be a good heavy metal band name

haha. i always liked THE WRATH OF JESUS for a christian metal band.

Kapitano wrote:and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground

that sounds more like a description of the "early withdrawal" method rather than masturbation though.

tviyh wrote:

Kapitano wrote:and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground

that sounds more like a description of the "early withdrawal" method rather than masturbation though.

Yes it does indeed sound like coitus interruptus (aka pump'n'spray). But among most fundamentalists - the kind who believe but don't read - it's the justification for saying masturbation is a sin.

It's not unusual. How many creationists know there's two incompatable creation stories in Genesis? How many opponants of same-sex marriage who endlessly quote Leviticus 18:32 know any other levitical laws?

Kapitano wrote:
Yes it does indeed sound like coitus interruptus (aka pump'n'spray)...

aka 'Getting off at Redfern' (Redfern being the last station before Central Station on the Sydney train network)

Would it have been a sin if Onan had spilled his seed on the wife's face, stomach, or mouth? That's more fun than the ground, anyways.

the sober irishman wrote:Would it have been a sin if Onan had spilled his seed on the wife's face, stomach, or mouth? That's more fun than the ground, anyways.

Only one way to find out.

Right. Who's got a wife?