Gray, or is it Grey? (prefight)

[Billy's Little Trip]

....by the way, cool avatar. It's a spin off of the city tags everyone has on their cars.

Those are called "Euro stickers" and were originally to indicate the countries there. They've since been also used for all kinds of stuff!
-bill

Have I ever told you that you are a plethora of information Heuristic?
...That being said, can you tell me if I spelled plethora right?

[WeaselSlayer]

You did. Barely.

[Ross]

My point is creating good hip-hop beats is a very specialized thing, and usually the rapper/songwriter does not create the beat. I

Make your beat, don't make your beat, whatever. The beat doesn't matter if the song is no good. I'd say focus on the song itself and use or make a beat that works to support it.

[MC Eric B]

rdurand - I totally agree with you, but everytime I use a premade hip-hop beat some songfighters give me crap about it, and some even refuse to review my songs because of that. Since I am a songwriter, not a musician, I would rather just focus on writing good songs, so using a premade beat is a big help. But, using premade beats is also a lot of extra work in some ways, because I have to totally rewrite my song to fit a beat I can't change much. So for now I am done using premade beats and am using my new Casio keyboard to make the music for my songs. My "Couldn't Have Been Worse" song got the best reviews of any of my songs so far, so it seems to be working out ok. I think my "Gray Rainbow", which I made on my Casio, will do well also.

[roymond]

Casio truly are, finally, revolutionizing music. This changes everything. Everyone is talking about it.

[Spud]

We did our "Been To China" on a Casio.

[roymond]

And the world hasn't been the same since. Yeah, now that's what I'm talking about!

[Mostess]

rdurand - I totally agree with you, but everytime I use a premade hip-hop beat some songfighters give me crap about it, and some even refuse to review my songs because of that. Since I am a songwriter, not a musician, I would rather just focus on writing good songs, so using a premade beat is a big help. But, using premade beats is also a lot of extra work in some ways, because I have to totally rewrite my song to fit a beat I can't change much. So for now I am done using premade beats and am using my new Casio keyboard to make the music for my songs.

Solidarity, brother.

I am more a songwriter than a musician, too. And I am definitely not a percussionist. I am lucky that my soul doesn't resonate to hip hop very much, so my bind isn't as tight as yours: G&G doesn't need a funky beat*.

Here's my solutions, in order of "success":

6) None. No percussion. Even groovy songs can work without drums. Our Baseball vs. Opera has no percussion. Ditto Exclamation Point.

5) Build beats by hand, sample by sample. Make little loops, then make bigger loops out of little loops, and so on. It's annoying and it doesn't sound organic or interesting, but it carries the beat. Our Safety in Numbers sucks, but not because of the handmade drum loops. Les Anchois actually won! (EDIT: It tied with the more percussively deft Pipe Fist)

4) Stolen sample loops. Only done this a couple times: One Less probably worked the best. But it was supplimented with other drum samples pasted in by hand later.

3) Hand percussion. The most underrated instruments, I think. Hand claps are incredibly effective. Our cover of 15-16 Puzzle's Don't Fix It has just a few hand claps, but they add some funk. Our Pieces of Eight used: hand claps, beer can tab a la thumb piano, a wedding ring on a beer bottle, a closed tupperware container with a hole in the top. Our third entry, Last Date is mostly car keys, pounding my chest, and tapping the head of the microphone. I really like the sound of our Oversleeping.

2) MIDI keyboard->GarageBand. I'm very lucky to have a nice MIDI electric piano (Xmas present for the whole family!) and a nice Mac Powerbook (for work). I finally bought a MIDI cable and tried it. Our Pink Ribbon and now our Gray Rainbow are experiments. I have to do a 3 tracks---a bass-snare track, a hi-hat/cymbal track, and a tom track---because I'm only slightly better on keyboards than I am on drums.

1) Don't care about the crap people give you. Don't "totally rewrite (your) song to fit a beat (you) can't change much". Use any of the above techniques unapologetically. Reviewers will give you crap: that's their job. Your job is to write good songs. The Casio corporation's job is to sell you trinkets that you may or may not be able to use to make your songs good. And my job is, apparently, to be kind of snooty and condescending.

*Yeah, yeah, I know. In some sense it does.

[MC Eric B]

Mostess - Thanks for the advice. Yes, I plan to try a bunch of different methods like those you mentioned. I don't play any instruments at all though, but by looping I can probably come up with something. My Casio comes with 150 rhythms though, so hopefully that should do much of what I need.

[roymond]

I am more a songwriter than a musician, too.
...
1) Don't care about the crap people give you. Don't "totally rewrite (your) song to fit a beat (you) can't change much". Use any of the above techniques unapologetically.

And you're more a musician than a methodologist but you're damn good at that as well.

Eric B - I wasn't beating down the Casio savior, just having less success at expressing what Hostess here is very gifted at expressing. That you've pursued it to this degree and are sucking up the advice and encouragement being handed out is what it's about. Not your Casio (don't lean on it like a crutch) nor your songwriting per se (let it happen however it happens). Stay the course. Victory will be yours.

[Mostess]

Why do you guys think this is such a good title? Curious. (I want to understand the primitive mind. j/k!)

I really liked this title until I wrote the song, and had a hard time making it a striking or meaningful image. Then I went to sing it: all I hear now is the "Ray-Ray" assonance in the middle. I hate the way it sounds. Like that 30-Rock joke about the movie "The Rural Juror". Just sounds ugly. Funny I didn't see it coming.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I really liked this title until I wrote the song, and had a hard time making it a striking or meaningful image.

That's exactly what happened to me. I had what I thought was a good concept and I wrote a few pages of the story I wanted to break down, but 3/4 of the way into it, I couldn't get it out of my head the way it needed to be done. Then I saw something on the news last week that reopened an old wound, and the flood gates opened. Unfortunately I couldn't come up with a hook and the song still isn't great, but at least I got the voices out of my head and onto my hard drive......where they should be.

[blue]

rdurand - I totally agree with you, but everytime I use a premade hip-hop beat some songfighters give me crap about it, and some even refuse to review my songs because of that. Since I am a songwriter, not a musician, I would rather just focus on writing good songs, so using a premade beat is a big help. But, using premade beats is also a lot of extra work in some ways, because I have to totally rewrite my song to fit a beat I can't change much. So for now I am done using premade beats and am using my new Casio keyboard to make the music for my songs.

Solidarity, brother.

eric b is neither a songwriter nor a musician. that, not where his beats come from, is the problem.

[MC Eric B]

Blue - You may not like my music, but I AM a songwriter. I have written over 50 songs (hear all of them all at http://www.nerdcoresongs.com ) and have made several popular music videos for the Web (such as my Christmas hit "Pimp My Sleigh"). I even had another band cover one of my songs. But, what I am not is a real musician like most of the people who enter songs at Songfight.

[blue]

Blue - You may not like my music, but I AM a songwriter. I have written over 50 songs (hear all of them all at http://www.nerdcoresongs.com ) and have made several popular music videos for the Web (such as my Christmas hit "Pimp My Sleigh"). I even had another band cover one of my songs. But, what I am not is a real musician like most of the people who enter songs at Songfight.

you haven't written anything. you can call yourself a lyricist, i guess, and maybe a vocalist, or, if you're feeling particularly vain, a rapper.

embrace yourself as a loop jockey. you'll be happier and better able to concentrate on what you CAN do. no one wants to hear your first feeble songwriting attempts, but you may have some actual talent working with loops. i mean, i haven't heard any yet, but.. you might.

[MC Eric B]

Blue - if I were in a band where I wrote all the lyrics, the melodies, and sang all the vocals, but had the band play the music I wanted, wouldn't I still be a "songwriter"? How are my songs any different than that scenario?

None of the loops or beats I use are actual songs to start out with. They have no real melody. I create the melody in how I write the song and by the way I sing it, plus the way I arrange the music, and also how I do the production. Basically, I take all the pieces, put them together, and make a unique song out of them. Plus, some of the older songs I wrote I actually did create the beat from scratch using drum machine software, but those songs are pretty boring because they only have drums and no other instruments.

[WesDavis]

Les Anchois actually won!

It was a dead tie! I haven't heard your version in a long time, but I remember being very surprised our tied for the lead, since it seemed like a lot of folks didn't like it all that much.

It does help to link up with someone who does electronic stuff though, with regard to the rest of your post there. I find my songs are generally far better received when I have that stuff in there.

[blue]

None of the loops or beats I use are actual songs to start out with. They have no real melody. I create the melody in how I write the song and by the way I sing it, plus the way I arrange the music, and also how I do the production.

i love that you distinguish "real" melody as being the order in which you place your loops.

i'm not arguing that this can't be done, btw. Bad Spellah does a freakin amazing job of it. you, on the other hand, put a couple of piano loops on top of a crappy drum beat and then rap, terribly.

i hope you can see the difference.

[MC Eric B]

blue - No, that is just not the case. I almost always write my lyrics and melodies before I choose what music to use/create for it. I even usually record a version of the song acappella first, just to get an idea of what it will sound like. The music I use does not dictate the melody of the song.

Anyhow, my point is that a crappy song is still a song. Plus, even though you might not like it, other people still might.

[blue]

blue - No, that is just not the case. I almost always write my lyrics and melodies before I choose what music to use/create for it. I even usually record a version of the song acappella first, just to get an idea of what it will sound like. The music I use does not dictate the melody of the song.

bullshit.

[Reist]

The music I use does not dictate the melody of the song.

[MC Eric B]

blue - Maybe I am incorrect in my usage of the word "melody", but an acappella song for example can still have a melody. I write the melody to the song in my head when I write the lyrics. I then add the music later. Even my songs with just plain drum beats only still have a melody.