Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Discuss upcoming, current, and previous song fights.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Spintown »

Not trying to attack you here, but listing your favorites from 1-5 is not a review. It's just a list.
You're completely right. I tried reviewing in the past, and giving some acutal feedback as just a fan. Well since I'm not a musician I got a lot of complaints saying I didn't know what I was talking about. I didn't know really, I just tried to say what I liked & didn't like as a FAN. So I started just giving my picks & sometimes a short remark.

However I have recently had a friend of mine who is a musician write reviews for me. I'll be posting his thoughts a little after midnight tonight. He's a little more harsh then I would ever like to be, so I have to edit about 25% of stuff out. If hoping he signs up for Song Fu 6 so I can have someone review him for a change. :D
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by ujnhunter »

Sounds like someone needs a collab... I have sex with candyland... oh wait... don't listen to me...
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by wyrfxrssn »

FortunesFavorite wrote:WTFBBS: Yep, echoin' the rest. NeS sounds are Cute, work on your rappin and your mastering.
I have been working on making myself less sound like a talk-ey douchebag and more like a rap-ey douchebag and I guess lyrical content depends upon subject for the song and whether or not I can work it well.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Ross »

Hey all, Thanks for the reviews so far, I am so pleased with how well my tune is being received.

I have been remiss in my reviewing duties of late, but will get on it this fight. I have been listening in the car and it is a really interesting mix of stuff - quintessential songfight! I'll get reviews up soon. Early interest in Fortunes Favorites and torrentz.

@ LML - I understand the desire to get good reviews and votes - and yet, what I have settled into is trying first to write a song like I would write if it was NOT for songfight, but then work it in a way to try make it stronger - for me this sometimes means working the melody more than I usually would (since I tend to be a word guy) and to work on an arrangement that keeps the interest of the ear. But I often end up submitting what many here call (derisively) GnG. some reviewers just have a bias against that genre - but I keep plugging away, and I think that has been to good effect. - My two cents.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Spintown »

Here's an actual review (with feedback this time). Sammy's opinion, and I edited out some reviews.

http://spintown79.blogspot.com/2010/01/ ... ement.html
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Spud »

Is it so hard to paste them in here? Or are these reviews copyrighted in some way?
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Spintown »

No, but the whole point of running a blog is to get people to visit it. Besides, those not interested in reading it won't have to scroll through it here.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by furrypedro »

Yeah, I'd be pissed if I found reviews posted in the review thread :D
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by roymond »

Ross wrote:...But I often end up submitting what many here call (derisively) GnG. some reviewers just have a bias against that genre - but I keep plugging away, and I think that has been to good effect. - My two cents.
Maybe we need to clarify the difference between a GnG genre and a song that's recorded with a guy/girl and a guitar.

A genre describes a type or class of music, which may certainly be subjective, but presumably it has certain musical traits / characteristics.

The other simply states the instrumentation used for a given performance.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by jast »

Spintown wrote:No, but the whole point of running a blog is to get people to visit it.
Well, if you think increasing your blog's bounce rate is a good thing, by all means continue posting reviews this way.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by PonchoP »

Manhattan Glutton wrote:
PonchoP wrote:Thanks! We have never submitted before. What is the regular that we sound like called? It'd be nice to hear them [and see what not to do?]
To see what not to do, off the top of my head, look at: MC Joebudy, Original King Kong. lol maybe the joke's on me and these are different people.

To give you a real review: I think a major problem with your recording is the mic, as you said. It makes you come across as nasally and emphasizes unpleasant speech sounds. The other major problem is you need a better instrumentation track. You can still use your Nintendo for samples... but not the whole darn song. You need some thumping bass. Finally, just the idea in general is more of a quaint spouting of limericks over a quaint loop of midi rather than a song-like endeavor. In other words, not something I would rock out in my car to. So, the first step is to get the tools you need and learn how to use them. The second step is to solidify your musical vision - maybe try covering some songs you like to get some practice and ideas.
The backing track was made entirely in famitracker, which we don't have much experience with. Thanks for the feedback though, we'll definitely take it on board and use it to improve
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by HeuristicsInc »

Spintown wrote:No, but the whole point of running a blog is to get people to visit it.
i tried visiting it last week, and it murdered my browser 3 or 4 times so i stopped. i think it might have been all the videos.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

HeuristicsInc wrote:i tried visiting it last week, and it murdered my browser 3 or 4 times so i stopped. i think it might have been all the videos.
-bill
Install Flashblock for Firefox. It won't load embedded Flash items until you click on them. IMO, quite essential to surviving the web these days. You can also whitelist sites like YouTube so that it doesn't become annoying.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by LML »

Manhattan Glutton wrote:Oh my gosh, I'm going to regret this.
I'm not gonna bite your head off. I guess I have won a fight once, when I did a collab, and nobody came to my house and gave me a check for 10 grand, I guess it's that competitive streak in me that wants to win win win! Also, this thread isn't REALLY a lifetime movie until someone gets beat and murdered and buried in a garden. Real movie.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Fortunato »

You got it right the first time! Ive had some comments that my production needs to be bigger, and then Fortune's Favorite says it doesn't need the bass, drums, or strings. My reaction? I dont mind. The different perspectives just give more depth to the reviews.
Well that's funny. My perspective on that is that there's a certain threshold to making a recording below which there are a lot of pieces of advice that apply like "get better synths", "program your drums better", "learn to sing" and stuff like that. Above a certain threshold (which in this case I think AJ was well past) it becomes a matter less of what a reviewer thinks, like me, and more a matter of how you want the song to sound. In this case, I was going with my gut feeling which was that the piano and vocal alone are so strong that adding a very faint drum and bass is almost unnecessary; but the key phrase there is not my opinion about the instruments, but rather that it's already quite strong.

Manhattan Glutton: You live in Madison! That town is notoriously awesome! Why don't you wander over to U WI and see if you can recruit a student horn player to do a simple solo for you? I assume you can write enough music to give them something to work with and given the quality of your productions now I'd be surprised if you couldn't find at least one student who'd perform a solo or a bridge for you in exchange for copies to share with everyone and maybe recording a work they wanted recorded.

LML: I listened though and my review shows it even if it's not blatantly positive, which imo is a polite thing to do as well. I'm sorry I didn't like it more, I suppose. But I wish you the best of luck in the future; and I'm not exactly talking from the top of the heap myself after all.

Edit: apologies, LML that came out wrong.
Notes for reviews: "Stronger vocal" means several things at once. Tighter timing, more confident pitch, arranging in your range.

If I'm not commenting on your drums it means they were pretty good.

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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by furrypedro »

WTFBBS: Like reading Penny Arcade, probably hilarious but I haven't played this game so it goes over my head. From my standpoint of ignorance the track doesn't change and the lyrics are crowbarred into the lines.

Weakest Suit: Ignore A J, I'm readin his review as saying "make your song sound the same the whole way through". Why the hell would you want to do this? The only answer I can think of is because he's threatened by your songcraft and wants to make your songs more boring so he can steal a vote or 2 off you. Maybe turn the blippy bits down a dB to stop them from drowning out the lyrics. Next time do an electro song with random acoustic twangery at an unexpected moment.

Torrentz: This kicked ass until the chorus, not that it's bad technically, it's just the FM rock-style is...just, so boring and middle-aged where the rest of the song is cool. I guess I just prefer hip hop, but the verses are original and fun.

Wages: Not bad

Ux Mpuzm: Ha, this is funny. I wouldn't ever listen to it again but it made me chuckle.

Therman: You've done slicker productions but this is a pretty rockin tune. I like the sludgy stomp and the horn middle section.

State Shirt: I'm a fan of musical U-turns so I like when the rawk! section comes in. I'm sad that it takes nearly 2 minutes to get there. This is all a really good job, can't fault you in anyway, and that you made a video for it as well is mega-impressive. I think this deserves a vote from me (though it doesn't sound enough like the Archers of Loaf for my liking but hey).

Styop Quoons: 10 fucking minutes! Come on, am I really going to listen to 10 minutes of this shit? (using the term "shit" in a broad sense there), skipping....4 minutes, slight change, but not much....skipping......6 minutes, shit (the normal sense of the word), skipping......8 minutes, a different instrument not doing much......man, there's this Moondog track call some hippy shit like Cosmic Meditation which doesn't do much either and it's about 25 minutes long, but it's awesome. This, is not awesome. The last 2 minutes is listenable thanks to the lack of guitar and vocals. Feel free to do this again, I will probably not listen it all again.

Ross Durand: I like the guitar line in this and the arrangement's great. Lyrics don't strike much of a chord (in my soul, man) but it certainly doesn't detract from the song. Good job.

Manhattan Glutton: Anthemic. It's got a Hey Jude feel about it, not structurally but y'know, in the choruses. I like the late era Yes stylings, with all the blippy bits and extra tracks. This is really good, I don't know if I'm gonna d/l it but I'm not going to penalise you for my taste (on this occasion, heh).

Montana Fudge: I was worried that these lyrics were incredibly hackneyed but the chorus saved it from a schmaltzy oblivion. I think I'm gonna cry. That was the most beautiful thing I've ever heard.

Mister Manly: I wasn't paying attention when this came on. This is probably my favourite of the fight so far. It reminds me of a guy I really like but not heard of for a while called Neverest Songs. It's just so simple but pretty, doesn't try too hard, and the chord choices are very effective. I'm even glad it lingers for a while.

Menbah: That was a really well executed intro and I knew that you wouldn't carry on like that. I'd really like to know why not? The way the song turned out is nothing special but those harmonies are sweet. The beat is poor, did you program that? it's like your drum machine is drunk or something. Sorry to get so scathing but it's frustrating when one part of a song is so good and other parts are so bad. Also I'm not a fan of using the word "baby" like that in a song, dunno why, just sounds cheesy. I'd come back to this for another listen but I'd skip straight to the choruses.

Spucky Loon: That's pretty fucking good. the way you sing "do what they're told" reminds me of the Tap.

Lynette Lewis: Songwriting: you nailed what you were going for there, well done. Production: I keep expecting it to kick in, all you'd need is a heavier, brighter beat (snare and kick mainly). Vocal phrasing would be more confident if you had another week to practice. These are quibbles, but nothing to worry about. Good job.

King Arthur: I could imagine Tom Petty* singing this. Surely you've got a mic for that acoustic right? The DI makes it sound like plastic. *I like Tom Petty.

JRobz + Kandee-lite: That bass keeps farting in my right ear. I'd keep bass panned central if I were...anyone, ever. yup, bouncy, rippin. Cool. In fact this may be the best song I've heard from you, not that I have an exhaustive knowledge of your back catalogue.

A Far Off Land: Pretty good shoegazey type track. I think I'd dig it more if the rhythm wasn't so laid back, and had a bit more of a pulse that is promised by the intro. You've nailed light and airy. I can't fault the production and the song is good, but perhaps the vocal melody isn't quite robust enough to get under my skin (in a good way).

Architects of Desire: I was expecting the vox to this to be way more bronxed, as it is it makes me think of...I dunno, My Life Story or something. The track's got a good vibe, it's tight and well produced. Good work.

Barton Stink: I like this, reminds me of Buck 65's "463", or some Atmosphere stuff. The violin loop is cool, you're lyrical flow is excellent. I'd like to hear it with more of a funk beat rather than a rock one and some tighter bass, my main criticism is there just aren't enough lyrics and you loop the chorus too much. More content! you're good at it. I'll probably keep this one. cool, is this your first fight? Do more.

C.Layne: Ooh, sinister. This is pretty well done, sounds like the Sting albums (that my mum listens to *cough*). I think it would sound good to drive through the desert to.

Cobalt Stomach: the only bit in this that I like is the part that starts at 1.40 and last a couple of seconds (with the 7th chords in), those are pretty good chords. The rest just passes me by without making much of an impact. sorry. Nothing sounds rubbish, but there aren't any dynamics between the different sections, it's always the same instruments, nothing builds up or breaks down. It changes speed a bit which kind of helps.

Jimmy Owenz: I fink you sound like Bowie. S'good but not my thing. Genre biastard.

Les Interchangiables: It's a cute song with an alright melody, but the ploddy rhythm is boring and some of the phrasing's slightly off in the vocals. The incredibly mature part of me hoped you were going to sing "someone with a much bigger cock". There I said it.

Fortune's Favez: The backing track's pretty tight. It develops well, there's always something new coming in to keep me interested. The vocals are odd, they just drone on and every now and then throw in some weird phrase which makes it feel like a novelty track. I have no idea what these lyrics are about. If you had a girl to sing sexy things that don't mean anything you could sell this.

Cthonic Youth: Yes! Gimme indie rock. Just what I'm after. That is some dirty bass. I like this, the tempo seems to suit the dirty strut in the verse but when the more anthemic parts of the bridge and chorus come in I want it to be faster. Do you guys know Archers of Loaf? you should. They're the dopeness. I'll likely vote for this.

Sober: Accomplished but middle of the road. I like where you do the little pushes and the backing harmonies.

Bingy Swirlz: Country style, 5 minutes, this better do something quick. Ploddy, why is everyone going with ploddy this week? Skipping, sounds the same. I'd have given this a better review if you weren't late. Life sucks huh.

Suckweasel: Kinda bouncy and kinda catchy. I'd have liked to hear this with some extra instruments, but funny ones, like slide-whistles, bloopy nes sounds and a shaker, that kind of thing. Not a standard band arrangment, that would make it boring. You win out of the late entries, would I have voted for it....I'd have thought about it.


I hope I didn't miss anyone. If anyone wants clarification/justification just shout. I'll probably send votes the way of Mr Man, Lucky Spoon, Cthonic, State, Ross, Glutton and Barton Stink,

and now...I found some of the comments on reviews for me unfair so allow me to retort
Manhatton Glutton wrote:this feels too loud and compressed...poor mixing
Turn it down, surely? Poor mixing. Please give details. I thought my mix was okay, it all sat together pretty well, nothing out of place. You are right about the over-compression, whoops.
FortunesFavorite wrote:I think I have a problem with the second person in song lyrics.
You don't like people saying "you"? That can make songwriting difficult, especially with this title, and I'm not sure why my song was singled out for it.
Spintown's Friend Sammy wrote:This feels an awful lot like it's trying to be poetry
It seems like it's stated as if it's a bad thing necessarily. I was trying to introduce qualities like rhyme, meter and feeling into the words for sure, I think all songwriters do. But I fail miserably at the poetry thing with this song because of the small matter of the backing track.

Which just goes to show Spindude, that even if you have musical ability you can still talk shit about other peoples tunes. Not that all feedback is not appreciated, there's the bottom line. So thank you all for comments (that's not sarcastic, I realise it may come of that way)
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

FortunesFavorite wrote:Manhattan Glutton: You live in Madison! That town is notoriously awesome! Why don't you wander over to U WI and see if you can recruit a student horn player to do a simple solo for you? I assume you can write enough music to give them something to work with and given the quality of your productions now I'd be surprised if you couldn't find at least one student who'd perform a solo or a bridge for you in exchange for copies to share with everyone and maybe recording a work they wanted recorded.
Well, first of all, I'm kind musically confused right now because I don't even think I like my song that much. So spending that amount of effort just seems impractical for a song that I mostly did to make myself laugh. :) I could have gotten away with it had you not been such a horn snob!!

LML was gracious enough to let me put some constructive criticism into remix form (see attached file). Although, obviously, my own take on the song probably has its own criticisms. And this was without the source material. So now that I've got the source material, I'll probably do a 2nd version in the coming days with some more tweaks.
Attachments
lml_kayp_g1.mp3
LML
(2.95 MiB) Downloaded 103 times
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by LML »

Dear Mr. Fortunes favorite,
The phrase "keep your promises" is in second person. Notice how it says "your"? That's a word referring to someone who is directly being mentioned in the song. Now, I know you must be saying "Keep it in third person! you don't need to mention the person that is being referred to, because this song is obviously not a conversation and nobody uses 2nd person anymore... it's so 2009!" fortunately for me however, I don't listen to the reviews of people who have made nine posts on this forum.

Thank you kind sir,
Lynette Lewis

ETA: I'm sorry, that came out wrong. :twisted:
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by The Weakest Suit »

my whole song is in second person, but i guess the lasers distract from that, though.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

fürrypedro wrote:Turn it down, surely? Poor mixing. Please give details. I thought my mix was okay, it all sat together pretty well, nothing out of place. You are right about the over-compression, whoops.
Yeah... no. :) Aim for an average RMS of -11.5dB to -13dB. The over-compression and loudness makes it hard to pick what's mixed too high and too low - I suppose it's mostly a good mix. So, now that I've turned my volume slider to the lowest possible position, the bell is definitely piercingly loud. Some of the main instrumentation could come up a smidge. You could use a little delay and/or reverb either on the master or individual tracks to congeal all of the staccato instrumentation... if you are already, then it's just not enough. I recommend Reaper's 'mix alive' preset for reverb on the master track - but I'm a tool.

One trick you should be using is to listen with the volume turned way down and then the volume turned way up - that way you can easily catch mixing errors. Another problem is, either due to compression, or inherently, you're missing a lot of low and mid frequencies, which makes everything feel very sharp and piercing and gives me ear fatigue, especially when I don't turn the volume down. The compression you should be running on the master track should be parametric compression to try and balance out these issues (again, I recommend Reaper's ReaXComp with one of the presets, but again, I'm a tool).

Anyway, all of that stuff is pretty easy to overcome. What would help the song most is spending more time on the vocal takes, adding bass, and contrasting the sections more by dropping in/out more layers (maybe some harmonies on the chorus).
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by Fortunato »

fürrypedro wrote: You don't like people saying "you"? That can make songwriting difficult, especially with this title, and I'm not sure why my song was singled out for it.
I didn't mean for it to apply to just you; it had happened several times already but your song was where I began to notice it was a recurring trend. Makes me realize that next time I should post a leader that says "common themes applying to several people because they happened a lot", which was more where this came from. The problem I have with it isn't exactly in your song per se. It stems from when I would write lyrics myself; Ifound whenever I started using the second person too much it really hurt my songs. Often, with me, it turned blamey or preachy, which especially with a title like this would be something to watch out for. Yours doesn't seem to suffer that problem really, so I withdraw that remark.

Edit: also, thanks for the kind words. the vocals in mine were very last minute and they suffered for that.
Last edited by Fortunato on Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Notes for reviews: "Stronger vocal" means several things at once. Tighter timing, more confident pitch, arranging in your range.

If I'm not commenting on your drums it means they were pretty good.

Underlined artists are votes.
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Re: Ready the polygraph! (Keep All Your Promises reviews)

Post by furrypedro »

Manhattan Glutton wrote:Mixing
Sweet. I'll have to steal some reaper stuff. I've done the turning it down thing, and the listening from the next room trick, I thought it was fine but I'll be honest my speakers could be better and I'm not anxious to spend loads of cash on new monitors yet. I'm not actually sure how to measure the rms too, I usually just watch the peak, got a tip for that?

But yeah, I did a bass track, I didn't think it fit with the song style to be honest, and my vocals, well, I'm sure you've heard my singing before, I don't think I'm going to be giving pitch-perfect performances any time soon, sorry about that :D I might go back and see if I can create some space in this one. I usually keep the mix fairly dry but I'll crank the reverb on the whole mix and shee what happensh
Thanks for the tips dude!
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