The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Manhattan Glutton wrote:Bran - Definite cacophony. I don't much like the vocal effect, but you nailed the challenge. The guitar riff at the beginning is pretty enjoyable. Now, the greater challenge is making it enjoyable to listen to with the cacophony - not sure it's there.

I wasn't sure about the vocal effect either, and I'm still not, but it felt like the preferable option next to having it plain and sinking too far away behind the wall of guitar. This way, it stands out, even though it doesn't stand out in a completely positive manner... Difficult to say.

is there something wrong with the link to the wreckdom song?

On the Nur Ein page, yes... Niveous misnamed the file. This is the correct link: http://nurein.songfight.net/nureinvi/pn ... dom_p7.mp3

Rebeewz, by I.P. Freely.

Billy's Little Trip - Oh dude! I totally love how much cockaphony you used and your use of the title. I get you man...I g.e.t. you. But you should still lose because you suck donkey tits!

Bran Taint - I love the riff right out of the gate. But then it gets messy when all the other stuff comes in and it becomes cacophonous. Lyrics don't sound like much, but I like the fx on them.

DJ Ranger Den - Very pretty sound. I heard some cacophony in the background and it sounded like it fits your song, so I like it. I wish your vocal treatment blended it with the reverb on the piano. I don't know, maybe just a little tight bathroomy reverb. That's how I would mix it if I was producing it. It would give it more grandness. *shrugs*

Frankie Big Face - Right when I heard "patient number one" I figured we're getting a count down and I face palmed. But it's enjoyable to hear you sing and your cleverness, so I sat through it. Geez, cacophony much? The nice thing about it is that it sounds frantic as it should. Reminds me a lot of A Day In The Life from the frantic part on. If you would have started repeating number 7, number 7, number 7 at the end, I would have laughed, lol. And I KNOW it crossed your mind.

John Kloberdanz - Barbershop? Are the background vocals your cacophony? Oh, there it is, sirens. If you'd take out the heaven line it would be much better. I can't let my heathen kids hear this song because I don't like them believing in things that there is no proof of it exciting. Children are very impressionable. Other than that, good song.

Manhattan Glutton - I can't get it to play. It probably sounds like Fountains of Wayne. I'll come back to it when it works.

Merisan - AH, I heard your click track! For shame, this is Nur Ein. But your sweet voice makes up for it right away. Cool guitar mixing with the light uke and happy voice. Hope that's not your cacophony, because it just sounds like a cool mix. So, I guess it is. I like this song.

Paco del Stinko - I didn't read the lyrics yet, but is this a song about the little train that could? I like that you went with the adjective use. I started to, but death become me. Nice mix, good vocals, a little cacofunny. Good song. I like the acoustic by the way. Nice playing.

Ross Durand - I really like the groove of this song. Has a Dire Straights vibe to it, which I love. This would rock any county music stage in the south. They'd eat this shiz up my friend! The cacophony ruined it, but clearly without question made it easy for the judges to know you met the challenge. I'm sure you'll take it out after Nur Ein, lol.

The Worldly Self Assurance - Nice slow rocker and good groove. Everything is mixed good. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't bored for the last 1/3 of the song. It could just be my mood at the moment, so I'll listen again tomorrow. But no biggie, it's a good song.

WreckdoM - If the judges score strictly on cacophony, you won this round. Nice job of layering lots and lots of stuff.

Concerning Ross's song.
It rocks. I love it.
However I hear that bass line then....

COMING DOWN THE MOUNTAIN!!!!

.....CASH IN NOW HONEY!......

etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kAIMlISHhU

Tough round to judge.

Some dark horses dishing up good stuff.
Some of my favourites dishing up poo.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:Rebeewz, by I.P. Freely.

John Kloberdanz - Barbershop? Are the background vocals your cacophony? Oh, there it is, sirens. If you'd take out the heaven line it would be much better. I can't let my heathen kids hear this song because I don't like them believing in things that there is no proof of it exciting. Children are very impressionable. Other than that, good song.

Mr. Freely, thank you for your feedback. I will strive to ensure that my next Nur Ein entry, if I am fortunate enough to be a survivor, will appeal to persons of all beliefs, even sinners and heathens like yourself.

Caravan Ray wrote:Tough round to judge.

Some dark horses dishing up good stuff.
Some of my favourites dishing up poo.

Not so tough. The song remains the same regardless of the name that's attached to it.

IOW, rank 'em.

Of course that's easy for me to say, knowing how much you usually hate my entries. Ok, only the last one, I think, wait, you beat me up for the Battle of Hastings thing too

This was tough, and now the eliminations get harder to influence, because some good people are going to be taken out soon. I really liked when cacophony made sense in the song...when there was a reason for it, rather than "let's get all noisy". A few people really nailed that. However, a couple really great songs didn't attempt the challenge, IMO. That's gotta hurt.


Billy's Little Trip - now here's a pick-me-up for a rainy day. your performance carries the shallow lyrics and makes me wish i didn't have to listen so closely. but it really is contagious sonically. I don't hear cacophony beyond your usually dissonance-infected harmonies. but cacophony is different from dissonance, so that holds your score down a bit.

Bram Tant - your musical ideas continue to save you. and here we"ve got an increasingly hectic backdrop against which your lyric say very little, but it doesn't really matter. you've been able to capture a sense of disarray in sync with the challenge. so while the lyric score drags you down, the setting keeps it afloat. the pulsing keys against an evolving guitar crunch makes it intriguing.

DJ Ranger Den - you've built some strong visuals, very cinematic and evocative. I don't get cacophony until the very last, and even there i call this dissonance, not cacophony, as it is very much arranged. but your strength remains your delivery and dreamy presentation of some pretty damn crazy moods. the vibes could be mixed more within the textures rather than jutting out in some places, but i like this wash of desperate surrender.

Frankie Big Face - Your aversion to straight up V7s is admirable and often, as now, produces some wonderful harmonic interest. It takes us along with this meandering muse of murderous mayhem. The break section, while pretty tightly arranged, employs some cluster bombs and random harp-slashes illustrating your perverse mental state (?) and leads nicely to, and carries over into the last verse(s). It’s musical and appropriate, though the break itself is a bit over exaggerated (perhaps start during the second verse and build through the break more organically). Your guitar part is truly appreciated, though requires sonic triage during listening to get its full effect. Please edit this and clean that up, as it’s the only part of the performance that really falls short, despite your trials getting this done this week..

John Kloberdanz - OK, your harmonies and detuned backing vocals are awesome (though a little too "effect-y"). The cacophony...a bit stuck on with a band-aid, so I’ll acknowledge but not reward it. I like this a lot, though the story seems convenient and not something you lost much sleep over.

Manhattan Glutton - I love that saw tooth launch out of the crunch pulse. And I like the dark side of you here. It brings to mind obvious comparisons, and is very well performed. The filtering is sweet intrigue. I’m not sure about the high hat, whether I like its hiccups or wish that it was solid. The vocals and other elements are so well produced it gives me a nice subtle jab in the side now and then that I do think I like.

Merisan - pretty, and a great performance. nice slide. the metaliphone is nice during the breaks. i don't detect cacophony at all. no dissonance, craziness or otherwise. lyrically it doesn't suggest any role for cacophony either, as it's more or less a pick me up.

Paco del Stinko - love this take on the title. brilliant performance and production. it all works together and really works. lyrics are very sweet and so familiar. the train cacophony is perfect. the final chord is fabulous.

Ross Durand - great production and attitude makes the performance really convincing, and the hell breaking loose cacophony is primo. i don’t generally go for these macho testosterone fueled story lines, but it works. years ago I had a very different impression of you, but it seems you're pretty twisted.

The Worldly Self Assurance - don’t really get the cacophony until the very end. does this tie in to the story? I don't hear it. And I don't hear why this is patient number 7's story. I'm ok without the title in the lyrics, but it doesn't necessarily ooze "patient" to me. So lyrically it's on the edge, and challenge-wise it's near the edge (I don't know why cacophony is applied as it is), but the music is great.

WreckdoM - used the challenge to drive the song itself, not as an add-on or effect. the patient is mad, I get that, but I don't get much else.

roymond wrote: Bram Tant - your musical ideas continue to save you. and here we"ve got an increasingly hectic backdrop against which your lyric say very little, but it doesn't really matter. you've been able to capture a sense of disarray in sync with the challenge. so while the lyric score drags you down, the setting keeps it afloat. the pulsing keys against an evolving guitar crunch makes it intriguing.

Thanks, you've described pretty well what I was trying to achieve. I tried to put somewhat fitting/listenable lyrics in, but it was difficult with the music being somewhat all over the place.

these are brilliant and proving tough to criticize. I'll have to edit my reviews this afternoon. They are a mess of disclaimers and quite lengthy.

As regards cacophony tho, i will second what was mentioned earlier in this forum and say I looked it up as well and applied the musical definition to a song I wanted to function as a standalone. I made "kooky" vocal tuning and articulation/whiny decisions, inappropriate gong-scratching against cage noises, and I wanted the vibe player to sound like the characters of jealousy and vouyerism who get barely contained within the noise of the skull.. popping out of the eyeballs of the song a bit. I was worried because while my dissonances normally come across as cacophony (like I think happened in my 'Cloud-Cuckoo-Land' fight) I worried the opposite would happen here.
I think if I can learn the piano part and flesh out a more florrid performance version with lines from the vibe part, I'll feel I've ultimately succeeded.
NUR EIN!
(reviewsreviewsreviews after lunch meeting. I realize I am always saying this. I will get them all up soon then you shall tire of reading my reviews!)

Roymond wrote:

The Worldly Self Assurance - don’t really get the cacophony until the very end. does this tie in to the story? I don't hear it. And I don't hear why this is patient number 7's story. I'm ok without the title in the lyrics, but it doesn't necessarily ooze "patient" to me. So lyrically it's on the edge, and challenge-wise it's near the edge (I don't know why cacophony is applied as it is), but the music is great.

Roymond,

Thanks for the review! It's great to get the feedback as to what works and doesn't work for you!
Yes the cacophony is at the end ,and that is by design.

To me, and I can only speak for my 5th of the band, Patient #7 is the protagonist. The medical and health-care system sees this subject as #7. Much like the motor I'm working on is Beta #4. As the listener we are omniscient. We get to hear the point of view of this patient. Meanwhile observing his rise and fall. He has recently been all fixed up with a cocktail of drugs and recent surgery. He walks outside of the hospital "born anew". With his "experimental brew" keeping him going. Now to me this story is about my Dad. He's 70, bi-polar, physically falling apart.There have been many episodes of this cycle. He gets fixed up and he's happy. The 2nd half of the song is where things start to really fall apart again. Pain and confusion and pressure form a cacophony that becomes overwhelming. Despite everything falling apart and he clearly needs help the one sentiment he holds firm is "I won't go back again". The message I think was conveyed intellectually after 30 seconds, but I think the emotion of it,and really feeling it comes with the extended ending where the chaos is ramped and ramped and ramped up ( the cacophony ensues).

Anyway, thanks for the comments!
I love our song, I'm ,as usual, too close to it to be objective.

Tough one to judge, they are all good!

roymond wrote: Billy's Little Trip - now here's a pick-me-up for a rainy day. your performance carries the shallow lyrics and makes me wish i didn't have to listen so closely. but it really is contagious sonically. I don't hear cacophony beyond your usually dissonance-infected harmonies. but cacophony is different from dissonance, so that holds your score down a bit.

Thanks for liking the rock at least. And for the record, I did not ignore the challenge, it just doesn't seem to be meeting the definition of some. From the other reviews thus far, it looks like I'm going out. But at least, in my opinion, I'm going out with a song that I can truly say I liked.

roymond wrote: Frankie Big Face - Your aversion to straight up V7s is admirable and often, as now, produces some wonderful harmonic interest. It takes us along with this meandering muse of murderous mayhem. The break section, while pretty tightly arranged, employs some cluster bombs and random harp-slashes illustrating your perverse mental state (?) and leads nicely to, and carries over into the last verse(s). It’s musical and appropriate, though the break itself is a bit over exaggerated (perhaps start during the second verse and build through the break more organically). Your guitar part is truly appreciated, though requires sonic triage during listening to get its full effect. Please edit this and clean that up, as it’s the only part of the performance that really falls short, despite your trials getting this done this week..

By "sonic triage," are you implying that my guitar playing sucks? If yes, I am aware.

Yeah, I've been really into half-diminished seventh chords lately--usually in place of the IV chord. This week, I went further and threw in some flat-9's on the dominant and some suspensions. Thanks for noticing!

Hey, BLT, I have to say as well that I really like your song (review forthcoming...) but I do agree with others that you (to my opinion) didn't really fulfill the challenge. But well, you took your chance, you did what you thought was good, and if you go out you're going out with a bang. I'm not sure I'm going to survive myself, even though I think (and most people seem to somewhat agree) that I met the challenge. So, we'll see. Good luck to both of us!

frankie big face wrote: By "sonic triage," are you implying that my guitar playing sucks? If yes, I am aware.

What I meant was that the guitar part is awesome...the notes, the approach, the tone...so in that respect your playing is perfect...you just didn't pull it off here. The sonic triage is filling in the blanks to complete the part during listening.

A few have stated they don't get what our songs about. Its meant to be vague, but the gist is that our patient is revisiting idylic memories that are fragmented, and eventually turn tragic. The first is a picnic, the second an amorous encounter. Once the memory becomes ugly, our patient becomes upset, and a medicated rest is prescribed. Each memory is tinged with cacophony and after he becomes upset the song falls into chaos altogether. Like I said, its meant to be vague, so interpret how you like, but that was the idea.

bambamoozle wrote:if I am fortunate enough to be a survivor, will appeal to persons of all beliefs, even sinners and heathens like yourself.

Cool. But you better have me proof read it before recording so that I make sure that you're artistic expression is only done the way "I" see fit.

...I jest of course.

In regard to Merisan's speculative use of cacophony:
To me, ones mans impression of a harmonic symphony could be to another mans ear, a loud and unpleasant mess.
Given my own taste and disposition, I did feel like we managed to make a noisy and discordant racket. Smashing cymbals a little out of time, and keeping the percussion loose was like listening to nails on a chalkboard to me. Shoehorning in more noise just for the sake of it seemed to me to be a dishonest representation of our sound. If you compare this song to those we have submitted in this competition , I do feel like this one met the challenge for us, and our sound.

The results are in:

The winner is Frankie Big Face.
The bottom three are Bram Tant, John Kloberdanz and Billy's Little Trip. Tschüss!

Frankie Big Face - 55
Paco del Stinko - 52
Ross Durand - 45
DJ Ranger Den - 36
WreckdoM - 31
Merisan - 29
The Worldly Self-Assurance - 27
Billy's Little Trip - 25
John Kloberdanz - 17
Bram Tant - 13

Judging breakdown:

Judge 1
10 Frankie Big Face
9 Paco del Stinko
8 Merisan
7 DJ Ranger Den
6 Ross Durand
5 WreckdoM
4 The Worldly Self-Assurance
3 Billy's Little Trip
2 John Kloberdanz
1 Bram Tant

Judge 2
10 Paco del Stinko
9 Frankie Big Face
8 Ross Durand
7 The Worldly Self Assurance
6 WreckdoM
5 Bram Tant
4 Merisan
3 DJ Ranger Den
2 Billy's Little Trip
1 John Kloberdanz

Judge 3
10 Frankie Big Face
9 Paco del Stinko
8 Ross Durand
7 DJ Ranger Den
6 Merisan
5 Billy's Little Trip
4 John Kloberdanz
3 The Worldly Self Assurance
2 Bram Tant
1 WreckdoM

Judge 4
10 Ross Durand
9 Paco del Stinko
8 Frankie Big Face
7 The Worldly Self Assurance
6 Billy's Little Trip
5 Merisan
4 John Kloberdanz
3 DJ Ranger Den
2 Bram Tant
1 WreckdoM

Judge 5
10 Paco del Stinko
9 Frankie Big Face
8 Ross Durand
7 WreckdoM
6 The Worldly Self Assurance
5 Billy's Little Trip
4 Merisan
3 DJ Ranger Den
2 John Kloberdanz
1 Bram Tant

Judge 6
10 WreckdoM
9 DJ Ranger Den
8 Frankie Big Face
7 Billy's Little Trip
6 Paco del Stinko
5 Ross Durand
4 John Kloberdanz
3 Bram Tant
2 The Worldly Self Assurance
1 Merisan

Judge 7
10 Ross Durand
9 Frankie Big Face
8 Paco del Stinko
7 DJ Ranger Den
6 Merisan
5 The Worldly Self Assurance
4 John Kloberdanz
3 Billy's Little Trip
2 WreckdoM
1 Bram Tant

Also, reviews.

Worldly Self-Assurance: Great, great mix. The endless guitar noodling gets a bit grating. The melody gets a bit samey. Falsetto-y backup vocals and lead vocals don't quite sound good together. This is actually a downside of the great mix; it would never have been that obvious if things had bled into each other more. Nice use of title, I like the lyrics you built around it. The challenge is very, very understated here; it's actually more of a very very busy arrangement than truly cacophonic. Points off for that. Hmm, and it's pretty drawn out, too. Vocals sound a bit strainy. All in all, this fails to hold my interest.

John Kloberdanz: Did you put some weird effect on the backup vocals? Sounds like you recorded this through drain pipes. Very decent arrangement, though. The hospital sounds (which are far from a true cacophony, by the way, but at least they're sort of significant) don't sit well in the mix. Song is a bit drawn out. Huh, sudden ending. Good lead vocals, though you have a tendency to getting nasal especially on the lower notes. I can relate to the story (except for the dying part). The limiting factor here is definitely the mix, and of course points off for not-really-cacophonic.

Bram Tant: Hmm, this is different. Interesting contrast between guitar and synth. Mix is a bit undefined. I like the effect on the vocals in this kind of setting. This is a decent stab at cacophony, but still too regular, especially in terms of rhythm. Another song here that fails to engage. I think the concept could have grown into a much better song. Mix lessons: use stereo panning as appropriate and EQ different tracks differently. Lyrics are okay (short lyrics, short review).

Billy's Little Trip: Interesting sounds. Painfully pitchy vocals. Perhaps it has to do with the way you monitor during recording the vocals...? Anyway. Great song, good lyrics (I can't see even an attempt to reference the "7", though). However, no cacophony here. I assume you meant for those weird sounds to be the cacophony. That isn't enough, and it wasn't really "significant" by any meaning of the word, either. You get "token effort" points for the challenge.

Paco del Stinko: Super-great development and arrangement. Very good mix, too. The train horn is kind of fun. The lyrics are kind of stupid, but in a good way. Your attempt at cacophony is, once again, more of an intermission of sounds than what I wanted people to deliver here. But at least this is by far my favourite song of the bunch so far.

WreckdoM: This has cacophony. Finally. Unfortunately there is hardly anything else left. Personally I think if you're going to use cacophony, use it to accentuate something, not to win some kind of world record. I'll definitely factor in the very complex arrangement that has lots of interesting details. At the same time, it's points off for making the song hard to follow and hard to enjoy. Oh, and I don't quite see how the word "patient" relates to this song. Just because someone takes drugs he isn't necessarily a patient, right? Not sure the slurred words make this any better.

Merisan: Great development/arrangement. I like this lyrical approach, even though I don't quite know what you're talking about. In this case I don't mind though. I can't find any cacophony in this song at all, though. Many, many points off.

Manhattan Glutton: This is a better try at cacophony. I think it's still a bit too structured, but it works almost as well as "real" cacophony. Lyrics are stupid, right? This whole thing is kind of cool, though, and the destructified sound is awesome. Not something I'd voluntarily listen to twice, though... it's "interesting", but only once. And even then possibly half of it is plenty. What did you do to the hat? It sounds horrible. Which I guess was the point, but I'm curious anyway.

Frankie Big Face: Eww, plosives. There's something about this song that I can't name, and I don't even know whether it's good or bad. That's helpful, right? I think it's good, and I think it's the extreme dominance of the bass in the mix. It all fits together anyway. Excellent lyrics. Thanks for some actual storytelling. Cacophony successfully detected. Okay, there's a significant portion of cacophony, but it's not really significant to the song and the story. I mean, there's clearly some deranged thing going on in the story, so that works, but there's no obvious reason why the cacophony should set in where it does.

Ross Durand: I don't know how you mixed that bass, but it sounds perfect. Great mix. I don't need to say much about how this is a good song as always. Interesting departure from your usual style. You make it work. Nice lyrical approach. Hell breaking loose... now that's a signficant use of cacophony! And it's definitely cacophony, unlike in most other songs in this round. Terrific job, sir!

DJ Ranger Den: Very mellow. Great arrangement. I don't like how you draw out some of the syllables, seems gimmicky. Cacophony detected, but it's very, very understated. Some points off for that. Lyrics are rather hard to follow. I can dig this song. Perhaps could have stood being a bit shorter.

Oh, and this was sort of my reference implementation of cacophony (the ending): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgCh-NLK36M
Lowest score: 27. Highest score: 40. Highest score below top three: 31 (hint hint).

jast wrote:Billy's Little Trip(I can't see even an attempt to reference the "7", though)

"Hear them whisper in the hallways, never call you by name
Everybody's got a number in the dying game"

Seriously? The references to the title aren't enough to title this song "patent number 7"? Really?