The Song Fight Bulletin Board

blue wrote: and most of canada to argue ...

Know why Blue's got a hard-on for Canada?

Cause we named a beer after him.

But Melvin and blue... the bass instrument in your mixes, are low-cut pretty heavily.

I find it hard to get deep bass without the mix getting all muddy, especially once I put mastering compression on it. Got any advice on how to mix/EQ bass better?

a-log
--- vox ---
--- rhythm ---
+++ neat sounds, interesting samples +++
--- lyricall concept ---
/// this lacks any kind of tension or interest ///

b-jam
+++ vox +++
/// i don't know what to think of the uncertain guitar ///
+++ tambourine +++
--- cow bell ---

chuck chuck moose - download
+++ groove +++
+++ cymbals +++
+++ take on the title +++

jonas murdock and the child inside
--- clipping vox ---
--- nintendo-y sounds ---
+++ break down +++

dark liberty
--- out of rhythm vox ---
--- robodrums ---
/// if you're going to sing punk-style, mean it more ///

fourth doctor
/// intro gets me moving, but takes too long ///
+++ gothy vox effect +++
/// middle part keeps me moving, but takes too long ///
/// there's not enough meat on the bones of the this ///

hot tub combo
--- over-powering drums ---
--- under-powered vox ---
+++ drums and piano mix +++

the i.p.a.
+++ distorted guitar and accordion +++
--- cymbal ---
/// vox need more strength ///

jesse cooper
/// what's with the whole lounge-thing in this fight? ///
--- hiss ---
+++ groove +++
/// needs just a bit more something, a shaker, a second vox part, a little keyboard, a lead guitar bit; pick any two ///

j$ - download
/// the references in this tune limits your audience, but who the hell cares? i love it: great fun ///
+++ groove +++
+++ wah-wah guitar accents +++
+++ fave part: "rained again last night and it will rain this afternoon" hahahaha! +++

klownhole
+++ cool opening +++
--- guitar looseness ---
/// i'm rather ambivalent about the vox ///

m.c. friend
+++ bass groove +++
+++ smarmy lyrics +++
--- repetitiveness ---

melvin
+++ matthew sweet-ness +++
+++ opening lines +++
/// well-produced, but not really head-banging, engaging rock //

motor monkeys
+++ has the raw engery that melvin lacks +++
--- falsetto ---
--- clipping vox ---
+++ "saturday, saturday", nice little reference +++

mr. man and dr. funk
+++ opening line makes me laugh +++
--- rhythm guitar tone ---
+++ nice little guitar solo +++
--- too much drums ---

sonofsupercar
+++ bass thrum and groove +++
--- too-quiet vox ---
/// chorus could use a wall o' power chords at the beginning ///

state shirt
+++ guitar tone +++
+++ production +++
--- nothing reaches out and grabs me ---

steve gamble
+++ genuinely funny +++
+++ lead guitar +++

those meddling kids
--- rhythm-challenged vox ---
--- rubber-band guitar ---
+++ breakdown +++

tiny robots - download
+++ mazzie star-ness (especially the slide guitar) +++
+++ toe-tapping +++
+++ vox +++

tommy sheet
--- plosives ---
/// a good song that gets outshined in a such large fight; probably will be the most underrated tune in this fight ///
+++ vox grit +++

veuve clique
/// ben, putain, qu'est-ce qu'y a avec des noms en français cette semaine? une invasion ou quoi? ///
--- wandering vox ---
+++ bass effect +++
--- explitives ---

melvin wrote:

But Melvin and blue... the bass instrument in your mixes, are low-cut pretty heavily.

I find it hard to get deep bass without the mix getting all muddy, especially once I put mastering compression on it. Got any advice on how to mix/EQ bass better?

Well then, I'm thinking...what I might consider a "fat" mix, you might consider "muddy". I have a high tolerance for mud, and I really have no 'set' ways of doing things either, I just try everything....but...here's what I'm thinking...

I'd probably boost a little 80-120hz (it all depends) but bring the 200-450hz down in a notch, on the bass instrument track. Actually the boost may not even be necessary, but the notch is. Then I'd probably limit out the bass to a flatline (literally, my motu-works limiter has a "flatline bass" setting) and then mix it low. I'm thinking, but I'm not sure, that by gathering the 80-120, and eliminating the low mids above that, (about 250-450hz) I think you might end up with fat bass and not as much mud.

I would probably analyze the frequency afterwards (in a meter), and then possibly apply a slight bit more eq in one direction or the other, depending on what the bass sounds like at that point.

I also use the BBE sonic maximizer on my output bus. It'll tighten up the bass in the mix, so that you can dial in a little more umph without as much mud as an eq would do. Actually might try the BBE on just the bass and kick drum or drums, see what that does.

I should also mention, that last night I just did such a muddy crappy mix of a new song, and I thought it was good, at the time.... I'm gonna try some of these things tonight, myself.

I'll try the notch. I think the 250-400hz range probably contains the "mud" that bothers me, and I'm just being lazy by rolling off the whole bottom end. I'll also try more compression (with a slow-ish attack, right?) and see if that fattens it up without killing too much definition. Appreciate the advice!

boltoph wrote:

erikb wrote:If I was trying to pick a fight in earnest, I'd just review your song.

In other words, you're jealous?

Personally, my favs are Melvin, sonofsupercar, State Shirt, and Tiny Robots.

But Melvin and blue, your mixes, maybe just the bass instrument in your mixes, are low-cut pretty heavily. Listen to SS after listening to sos, or vice versa.

SS's mix sounds muddy as heck to me - see my review making fun of his pods. Melvin's mix is bassy as heck. what are you listening on?

110hz is usually the mid-bass mud band, but any frequency can ruin a mix if there's too much of it on too many instruments at once.

the sos mix is a little light in the ass for sure, because of the missing bassist incident. i've also been using more natural sounding mics on the bass drum lately (an md421 on the front and b1 on the back) instead of "bass drum" mics, so the bass drum is pretty attack-y and not very boomy.

Leaf wrote:

blue wrote: and most of canada to argue ...

Know why Blue's got a hard-on for Canada?

Cause we named a beer after him.

mmmm, beer.

everyone knows i have a hard-on for Canada because the US just isn't big enough .

Zing!! Manifest destiny... dude, you guys already took over Canada. Who owns Molsens? Americans.

At least we got the comedians!

blue wrote:what are you listening on?...110hz is usually the mid-bass mud band, but any frequency can ruin a mix if there's too much of it on too many instruments at once.

I listened to these songs on Event monitors, Kenwood headphones, and shitty little phillips headphones...but more importantly, I listened to the songs mingled with other songs, including Blink 182, Sys o' D, Afghan Whigs, Queens of the Stone Age, Blind Melon, there's even a Josh Woodward tune in there.

I think the mid-bass mud band can vary, as well...I find that 100hz usually thumps nice and thick, if 200-500 or so is dropped. For me, it's that 200-600 or so low middley stuff that sounds like mud.

Compared to tunes I listen to, Melvins bass lacked bass (the guitars had some low end) and sos, you guys are severly lacking in low end compared to these other tunes. Just saying. Might be a matter of my personal taste, that's all. Definitely take it or leave it, but this is what I hear. I just think these are good tunes, and the bass would help them sound bigger and kick more, like some of these pro mixes do.

boltoph wrote:including Blink 182, Sys o' D, Afghan Whigs, Queens of the Stone Age, Blind Melon, there's even a Josh Woodward tune in there.

aaah, there's your problem.

boltoph wrote:

erikb wrote:If I was trying to pick a fight in earnest, I'd just review your song.

In other words, you're jealous?

No, man. Not-liking something is not the same thing as jealousy.

btw, on the topic of bassiness, i think all commercial made-for-mtv kind of recordings use subharmonic synths for deep bass, rather than just the instrument recording. things like waves MAXXBASS plugin, and, i spose, the BBE maximator (altho that thing sounds like wet poop to me).

haha, youre probably right, blue. and the only way you hear music on mtv anymore is on their commercials. so like who is trying to get what kind of sound for a bass? if you want that feel the bass junk like in the mtv commercial poo, then try out boosting the bass like around 90 ~ 120hz. when you blast your music, it will be like "bshsshhhhhhhvvvvvvv" and your tummy will rumble even when your not hungy. if anybody has FL studio, then they gotsta tell me.

Apologies for not reviewing yet, almost certainly tonight when I finally have some time.

However, a couple of recurring comments appeared through the reviews of my song which I consider erroneous, so for the record:

a) it is not a 'stylistic change of direction' - I have done plenty of songs on SF in a similar style - my Half a Stone springs to mind as just one example - dating right back to my third entry, 'Cosmic Confirmation'.

b)The lyric is not 'nice' or 'sweet'. I would point to the line 'The only paper that we take is wrapped around our chips' as the hang-line, but there are plenty of lines there that make the intended message clear enough. I am happy for people to take from it what they hear, of course, and I am more than happy that people enjoy it full stop. But there is a difference between not getting it and it not being there to get.

c) I must admit to not caring / actually feeling vindicated that some of you felt alienated by 'not getting the references'. There is nothing there that is particularly obscure. Now you know what it feels like for the rest of the world when Americans sing about being American

Oh and Luke my 'vocals/lyrics' might not work for you, but they work for me just fine, thanks. I wouldn't have submitted the song otherwise.

j$

Anthony 'A-Log' LoGatto - ah, no. Did I once enocurage you to bring music to the mix? Sorry about that.
VISA: Denied.

Bjam - Hmmm, did you re-mix this after the AAD? It sounds better here than then. Yeah nice tune, but the lyric isn't really grabbing me. I'll need to read them.

Chuck Chuck Moose - Jazz funk? Eep. Mobile phone not cellular phone if you're playing that card. Oh this is too jazzy for me. And I don't like the American girl concept. Just not my thing. But it's well done - I might sing the melody slightly lower against this kind of track (well, I say I, obviously I mean someone who can sing this sort of thing) - kind of reminds me of Matt Bianco or Shakattak, or someone like that.

JM&tCI - Those vocals are too close to the top of the mix - maybe you could widen the mix to give them a bit more room? Sounds a little crushed up. Is the Inner Child your keyboard? Because it's not that naive-charming to be honest. Congrats on the literal take on the lyric. Visa arrives in time for flight, but it's an Irish visa.

Dark Liberty - Two songs, one week, no review from me. Shame as I am itching to take the piss out of the way you say 'Briterrton'

Fourth Doctor - uncannily that starting bass is quite reminiscent of the Doctor Who theme tune. Then it all goes a bit salt tank and loses me, I'm afraid. I mean it's good if you like the chill dance groove, and I do sometimes, not today though. At least there are no samples and I really like the vocals on this one. Sounds great. Just not my macceroon (sp).

Hot Tub Combo - comedy live banter I despise. Big silly recording technique almost kills a good Flaming Lips style tune. That said I am bored beyond the effect of happy pills by the time 2 minutes comes along. Turned back at airport.

IPA - nice opening, the sort of thing Sober Irishman runs out when he's feeling 'ethnic' (hehehe). Although it must be said this is clearly not a musical genre that started or thrives in Britain. I can't quite make out the words so I am struggling to find anything to say, except for 'pretentious heckling', which would be quite tricky to pull off in reality, and 'I know everything', which is nice to know. Not bad at all. Mix is a little thin. Visa arrives but expiry date is one day shorter than holiday is booked for (mainly for the annoying dragged out ending)

Jesse Cooper - That's nice enough, even if it is CCM part two.

Johnny Cashpoint is me. Truth is, I wrote this song for someone else to sing.

Klownhole - pretty awesome. pretty restrained for (what I think of as) Klownhole?

M C Friend - nice krunky synth bass and vocal (sample?) opening. Damn, Denyer this is pretty good non-rapper's rap! Though lyrically not as insane-genius as you often are.

Melvin - Well, OK, that's not exactly the same as your usual stuff. I'm not sure I like it much more but kudos for variation. I think this a beautiful melody wedged on top of a slowed-down punk-pop track when it would be soooo much better a sigur ros 'sonic cathedral' type song .... I am also not sure that telling someone not to be ridiculous and folow it with 'nothing looks the same in this god-damn town' isn't a pot/kettle scenario

mm - That's fucking cool. I may well be voting for this one if I still can. EDIT: I can't - sorry.

Mr Man & Dr Funk - Do clocks call? I suppose they do. Good mix. Wasted opportunity. A coldplay parody? Do we need that? They do that well enough themselves.

SOS - This is awesome also. Best bass tone I have heard in ages. I wish it had kicked in some more around 0:52 - I thought you had two guitarists? And the mix while good, is peculiar. 'Could have been anywhere else' is good. As always the last 1/2 minute is the best. But overall damn good.

State Shirt - now when I was saying to Melvin he needed another sound to back up his cool melody, this is the sort of thing I had in mind arrangement-wise. Reminds me of Radioheads somewhere between the Bends and OK Computer, which is a good thing.

God, does this fight never end?

Steve Gamble - This isn't good, but I like it. Kinda. You also appear to have two songs in concurrent fights therefore I don't like it anymore.

TMK - This reminds me of Prefab Sprout meets Half Man Half Biscuit, with a side-order of The Sinister Cleaners. I don't mind it at all. I don't neccessarily feel a rush of blood to my heads hearing it, but I appreciate its arch campness.

Tiny Robots - Yuk. I find this very all very worthy musically, like Fairground Attraction and their ilk. Very well performed and all that - but sorry, not my bag at all. Could really be made to fit any title with a few lyric tweaks I think that's my major problem. Not saying it wasn't written with this title in mind, just that it is generic folky lyric playing on Erin's coquettish delivery. Also I don't think 'Across the sea, will you leave the light on' is strong enough to be the main lyrical hook. It's the musical equivalent of Kendall Cake.

Tommy Sheets - that's a might quiet recording. Sounds nice enough. Can't really get into this after so many songs.

J FInk - The Who want their riff back. Great grindy electro track -badly recorded vocals and awkward vocal performance turns me off this. Sorry.

My favourites are (in ascending order) Klownhole, SOS, and mm (whoever that turns out to be). All moot as Tiny Robots have won while I was listening but tant pis

EDIT: Figured out it was the Motor Monkeys. Damn. Best song in fight by far.

wow. state shirt only got 2 votes. they were like super good. oh well. i thought theyd get like more than that.

I decided that since I didn't get a password to submit my cover art that I'll post it here.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9176/f ... ain5np.jpg

I thought it was lovely. That's mostly because I'm madly obsessed with Emma Watson though >_>

j$ wrote:b)The lyric is not 'nice' or 'sweet'. I would point to the line 'The only paper that we take is wrapped around our chips' as the hang-line, but there are plenty of lines there that make the intended message clear enough. I am happy for people to take from it what they hear, of course, and I am more than happy that people enjoy it full stop. But there is a difference between not getting it and it not being there to get.

I'd hate to have to start using [irony][/irony] on every comment but believe me the actually sense and meaning you were intending to communicate in the lyrics was not lost on me at all...far from it as I'd read the lyrics days before I got around to listenening to the song(s). The 'nice' and 'sweet' comments were related to the performance which I rather enjoyed. Anyway I'm the Brit with the obligatory optismistic, Happy Life, Day Trip to Bangor sensibilities not you.....so no mistake there!

[edit] I commented would our American friends understand the parochial subtlety of what 'taking' a paper meant but then I noticed you don't really care anyway

Now calm down, have a nice mug of tea with a McVities milk-chocolate Digestive and you'll feel much better

reviews - belated, but still they are reviews.

jonas - keyboard thingy is too loud. not fond of the vocals. the thin drums near the end are a good touch, but they're barely there.

jesse - where are you? i can't hear you! hard to review it when i can't hear it.

4th - this is actually pretty cool, to me. i dig the electronic instrumentation... it's unfortunate i can't tell what you're saying but i guess you didn't want to emphasize the lyrics.

mrman - this song is better than i expected given the forum personality. i kinda like it.

alog - do you listen to the music when you sing? speaking of which, where is the music? work on the mix.

melvin - unabashed pop stuff, and i like it.

meddling - the organ is fun. i'm reading the lyrics and i have no idea what you're talking about. i don't like the organ as much when it gets choppy, it sounds artificial, which is out of place in this song. weird breakdown... which would be good if there was more weird in the song itself. a bit goofy at parts, but fun.

hot - wow, talk about the room being present in the recording. i think you need sound-dampening stuffs on the walls or something. vocals are too quiet, but then again, i'm not too fond of their out-of-control character. drums too loud, too. this is also about twice as long as it should be.

j$ - enjoying the rolly cadence. the rhyme scheme doesn't seem rigid enough... so you don't like tourists? yeah, i think it's mainly the rhyming that bugs me here, but this is a good song anyway.

mm - enjoying the vocals at :51. yes, i enjoy this, but i have nothing to say about it, really.

tommy - i can't hear your vox very well, but the thing that stands out so much that it's hard to ignore it, is that the drum beat stays the same through the entire song. at least vary it up in the chorus or something! i can't hear much else in this song. vox are pretty good sounding.

sos - this definitely has a weird eq. the talky parts are cool. i always like the guitar in sos tracks, and the drums are nice and primal.

chuck - have more conviction in what you're singing - you don't sound too interested. this is pretty good sounding but takes no chances and doesn't stand out.

klownhole - hmm, i wonder if i can say this without sounding insulting. this is stupidly loud. but i really like it. i have the feeling this is what you were going for.

tiny - good vox, "keep the light on". good song, but a little repetitive in the lyrics.

ipa - music is pretty cool, but the vocals are lacking in sound meatiness. good solo section.

dark - yah, you're still a bad person for entering two fights. solo is good.

mc - i love your bass, but man, internet rapping is not my bag. chorus part is boring because it repeats the same line several times. music should change a bit throughout too.

jfink - more internet rapping. but this isn't as good sounding as the last one. the bassy thang is too loud. you're tripping over yourself here. very hard to understand you. also, is this called "gp" or what? the falsetto sounds really bad.

steve - hey wait, you're a bad person too. you get half a review. this is pretty good.

bjam - i particularly like the percussions that come in. nice one. the voice is sounding good especially for being an aad song.

state - mmmm, now that's some good stuff. the beginning makes me think of m83. awesome vox.

favorites: 4th, mrman, melvin, j$, mm, sos, klownhole, tiny, bjam, state

i think if i had finished these in time i probably would have voted for state shirt. oh well! sorry, man.
-bill

HeuristicsInc wrote:j$ - enjoying the rolly cadence. the rhyme scheme doesn't seem rigid enough... so you don't like tourists? yeah, i think it's mainly the rhyming that bugs me here, but this is a good song anyway.-bill

I was going to rhyme AABB, but went for ABAB instead as I didn't want it being too sing-song.

Nah, this isn't an anti-tourist song. It's anti the mythical idea of 'When Great Britain was Truly Great' that some people subscribe to - some tourists, but also some small-minded inhabitants of the UK too. Bands like The Libertines, Kaiser Chiefs, and Babyshambles peddle this myth of 'Albion' as something to aspire to, and people lap it up. It's conervatism at its small-minded worst. I hate every single thing I mention in the lyric - with the possible exception of 'What The Butler Saw' machines.

j$

i was being a little facetious with the tourists thing, but i forgot my smiley
yeah, i got the meaning of the lyric. however i don't have an experience with this attitude that you complain about, so i didn't have a basis for it... the meaning was clear, though.
-bill