The Song Fight Bulletin Board

We could use Nur Einers that had been eliminated, but not currently alive Nur Einers for the guest vocals challange. Of course I imagine Erin would've been contacted by nearly everyone if we could have. (not to suck up to half a judge or anything).

Here's hoping Ken falls quickly so we can hit him up for some drums

And my entry is sent.

My crescendo came out terribly, so I shoe-horned in a reference to it lyrically as well. Hopefully the combined weight will satisfy the criteria.

I'm running late, but I'll make it. Not filled with much confidence, though.

I'm almost finished recording - got a kickass guitar solo to record, and all my vocals. I'm just crossing my fingers I have time to finish it before ...

THE DREAM THEATER CONCERT TOMORROW!!!!!

Man, I'm pumped.

frankie big face wrote:How the hell does anyone know what the judges are listening for? None of you has made a list of your criteria or whatever.

Done.

too.......much.......ein.......

must.......have.......fresh........ears

Done. Phew. Some of you will be surprised, when you hear it, that there are no guest artists - just me and Mad Dog.

bck15 - There is some debate at http://www.answers.com/crescendo&r=67 as to the exact meaning of a crescendo in a song. I took it to mean a buildup in intensity and volume later in the song, like a peak. You could do that at the start of a song also, but I am not sure a simple fade in would really be in that spirit. But, technically I guess a fade in seems like it would qualify. I am not one of the judges though, so what I think is not really what counts.

bck15 wrote:A quick question about the challenge. I was hoping someone else might ask this, so I wouldn't have to feel ignorant. Do I just need to include one example of a crescendo or does the whole song need to be a crescendo? As of now, I have a fade in at the beginning. Is that cresend-y enough?

My entry is coming along. It's one of those songs that I was pretty excited about at the outset. But the more I hear it, the less I like it. I still haven't decided between a drum loop or no drums.

I think (hope) Adam!'s list of criteria is useful. Any song that does not include some sort of a "crescendo" is going to go to the bottom of his list, and any song that does something really creative with the challenge - whatever it is - will get bonus points for that.

I would imagine that by the time they've listened to all 25 Round 1 songs, the judges are going to be so sick of songs that start with a fade-in that any song where that's the only crescendo going on will be scored down for that. But if that's all you've got, and the song itself is a good song, at least you met the challenge and won't be arbitrarily bounced for that.

I say all this because I too, am doing a fade-in at the start, although I also get really quiet at the start of the bridge and build back up to the final chorus. I'm not a judge and I certainly don't speak for the judges... but for me, the NOC is basically a checkmark thing, if you did it, you get the checkmark, but with the opportunity for some bonus points if you did it creatively. Hopefully I won't need those bonus points in Round 1...

Charles (KA)

Hoblit wrote:

erik wrote:1) How is anyone going to know if you use a guest musician?
2) Wasn't one of the requirements for one of the past Nur Eins to have female vocals? Isn't that using a guest musician?

1. If I showed up with superb drumming, you might get suspicious. IF I had a drum set I'd use it though.

2. What if we are secretly girls?

Don't pay any attention to me...I'm just typing words during lunch so I feel like I'm 'enjoying' my time away from work.

In a very weird twist of fate, I bought a drum set yesterday. I was browsing Craig's List for un-related reasons and I saw someone had just posted a drum set for sale in Tampa for $175 (I ended up giving him $200 for it though in order to help me drive it home because my car is too small to carry all of the equipment)

Obviously it won't be feature on this entry and I'm probably not going to be proficient enough for another entry or so if at all for this competition. But I thought it would be worth mentioning in light of my previous post.

Translation: Hoblit has decided to cheat outrageously and is now trying to cover his tracks.



Yeah, I'm just kidding.

MC Eric B wrote:bck15 - There is some debate at http://www.answers.com/crescendo&r=67 as to the exact meaning of a crescendo in a song. I took it to mean a buildup in intensity and volume later in the song, like a peak. You could do that at the start of a song also, but I am not sure a simple fade in would really be in that spirit. But, technically I guess a fade in seems like it would qualify. I am not one of the judges though, so what I think is not really what counts.

bck15 wrote:A quick question about the challenge. I was hoping someone else might ask this, so I wouldn't have to feel ignorant. Do I just need to include one example of a crescendo or does the whole song need to be a crescendo? As of now, I have a fade in at the beginning. Is that cresend-y enough?

A crescendo is not volume as much as it is expression and emotion. Simply potting up the volume on the board/DAW at the beginning of the song does not, in my opinion, a crescendo make.

But I'm only one of 5(6) judges. This is Nür Ein, yo.

king_arthur wrote:I would imagine that by the time they've listened to all 25 Round 1 songs, the judges are going to be so sick of songs that start with a fade-in that any song where that's the only crescendo going on will be scored down for that. But if that's all you've got, and the song itself is a good song, at least you met the challenge and won't be arbitrarily bounced for that.

...and having thought about that statement a bit, on my current mix of the song, I'm taking the guitar that was going to fade in at the start and actually doing a fade out on it. I don't know that that's what I'll wind up submitting, but the more I think about it, the more I think that a fade-in at the start of the song isn't gonna buy me any points.

I also mixed this one a bit more gently than Kick Start, so there shouldn't be a distortion problem, and I've listened to it next to a couple of the judges' favorites from Round 0, and I think I'm a lot closer to the same sonic space as everybody else.

And I think I already know what I'm gonna get knocked for on this one (to work harder on next round, assuming I get there), but we'll wait and see if the judges mention it...

Charles (KA)

That'd be a borderline decrescendo there, Chas. Hope that's not your only nod to the challenge.

Oh boy, this is going to be an interesting round

Nope, at the start of the bridge it breaks down to one guitar and then builds back up to the last repeat of the chorus. Since I do have a presumably real crescendo in the song, it didn't seem like there was any point doing something that would just make y'all go, "ho, hum, another song that does a fadein at the start..."

Then again, I figured everybody would be using "go kart" to rhyme with "kick start" in round zero, and I was wrong about that too... but I've been listening to this "fade out" start and I think I like it. I also did a "swap channels" at the start so that the fade out guitar is panned a bit to the right and then when it comes back in it's a bit off to the left, and that seemed like it perked it up, too.

Charles (KA)

I am always amused by this discussion of what meets or doesn't meet the challenge. Doing something interesting with it is the point of the challenge in my opinion, ESPECIALLY if it wasn't what the judges intended. There is no right or wrong answer. Stimulate them. Surprise them. Shock them.

SPUD

I'm kinda surprised at how interested I've been in discussing what I'm doing with this title... usually, if I'm going to have a song in the fight, I don't even post to the prefight thread... I dunno, something about Nur Ein and the non-optional challenge.

For anybody who will be creating their crescendo via a digital fade in, one of the things I've discovered, especially on fadeouts, is that it works to apply the fade twice. On a fade out, it pulls the volume down noticeably at first, lets the listener know that we're fading, and then fades more gradually as time goes on. On a fadein, initially the volume is coming up very slowly, but as the fade continues, you keep feeling like the volume is rising because it keeps rising more quickly. On just about every song I record, if the instruments are ringing out at the end, I still do a fadeout on the last few seconds, and doing the fadeout twice almost always makes the fadeout sound more real.

I am, of course, usually wrong about stuff like this, so, y'know, pay attention at your own risk...

Charles (KA)

Spud wrote:I am always amused by this discussion of what meets or doesn't meet the challenge. Doing something interesting with it is the point of the challenge in my opinion, ESPECIALLY if it wasn't what the judges intended. There is no right or wrong answer. Stimulate them. Surprise them. Shock them.

SPUD

The non-optional challenges are essential - we all look at them differently, and I think the judges do, too. I tend to try to make them integral to the song if I can and try to take them somewat literally, others value the most "out-of-the-box" interpretation. At any rate, I find the additional constraint interesting, since it often leads to increased creativity over not having the constraint.

My wish is that listeners will hear how my incorporation of the crescendo challenge is totaly contextual with the the theme and content of my song as a whole.

Looking forward to hearing these.

Nur Ein!

I couldn't agree more, Ross. That's the fun of these challenges. Our song concept is based on a specific, somewhat familiar crescendo, and the rest of the song is built around it. Does it meet the judge's criteria? We shall see.

Yep, smells like Nur Ein: up late last night trying to get get caught up, feeling poopy today. Of course I checked this morning and saw that the song is due tomorrow, not today. Anyway, it's in the mail, with fingers crossed.

i hope my vocals come out okay... i've got a really crappy chest cold... then again, it could just give me a gruff sounding voice... hah! we shall see...

Guess we had better start working on our song tonight, huh?

ROCK!

Glenn Case