Tuning Vocals in Post

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Lunkhead
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by Lunkhead » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

...having to open a second DAW just to tune vocals is just a waste of time and energy
That was not at all what I was suggesting. I was suggesting considering spending a little more money and moving to a more fully featured DAW. I haven't used Melodyne lately but I know for certain that the Cubase pitch editing tools offer every feature outlined in that Melodyne YouTube video jan linked. AFAIK the only feature the Melodyne has that other apps don't is the polyphonic auto-tuning support, which isn't relevant for vocals. By the time you've spent $100 for Melodyne you're half way to the cost of Logic Pro X. Spend more on some virtual instruments, etc. eventually you've paid out a higher total cost for your setup. Just something to consider. I know switching DAWs isn't easy or fun.
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by grumpymike » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:19 pm

owl wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:27 am

Why ReaPitch and not ReaTune? I'm not sure I understand why the timing gets screwed up either (you mean just if you're moving an item around?)
Oops. That’s what I meant. ReaTune. Yeah, if you place the FX on the item, it uses the timebase of the item and not the track. It’s a lesser known reaper feature, I think. So if you copy or move the item, any time based FX parameters come with it. Whereas if the ReaTune were on the track, you’d have to re-draw the tuning lines.

But it seems you’ve bought Melodyne. Congratulations! It actually works better as a track FX in my experience, so the above is moot.
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grumpymike
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by grumpymike » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:23 pm

Lunkhead wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm
AFAIK the only feature the Melodyne has that other apps don't is the polyphonic auto-tuning support, which isn't relevant for vocals.
Do other products do pitch slope, vibrato, and formant? Serious question. Watch Melodyne’s tutorial videos - they’re kind of amazing. They pick up the harmonic undertones in an electric guitar.
Lunkhead
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by Lunkhead » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:30 pm

grumpymike wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:23 pm
Lunkhead wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm
AFAIK the only feature the Melodyne has that other apps don't is the polyphonic auto-tuning support, which isn't relevant for vocals.
Do other products do pitch slope, vibrato, and formant? Serious question. Watch Melodyne’s tutorial videos - they’re kind of amazing. They pick up the harmonic undertones in an electric guitar.
Lunkhead wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm
I haven't used Melodyne lately but I know for certain that the Cubase pitch editing tools offer every feature outlined in that Melodyne YouTube video jan linked.
- pitch slope: yes for Cubase
- vibrato: yes for Cubase
- formant: yes for Cubase https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ing_t.html

That video was just vocals I think. I haven't watched any about tuning other instruments. I've used Cubase's to manually tune melodica and monophonic synth to pretty decent effect.

Aw dang, I am just noticing that the Variaudio stuff in Cubase is in the Pro level product only. :(
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grumpymike
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by grumpymike » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:58 pm

Oh weird. I would think the formant feature goes with polyphonic capabilities. But what do I even know?

I like how in this video he says “the most common use is to change gender of the vocals”. Well, if “Weird Al” is a gender, then yes, I suppose so.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nPAINeIGxMc

W/r/t Melodyne being a “heavy” plugin, yeah it is, but the vst3 + ARA extension makes it pretty integrated into Reaper. That said, I have run into annoyances with it, which are likely bugs or workflow induced. I wouldn’t mind it being even better integrated, but I also like that Melodyne isn’t held back in their single purpose pursuits. I can switch DAWs at any time and still have the things I paid a lot for. By your logic, we should all just use the stock Garage Band drums, right? :p
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by jast » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:30 am

To answer the question about Essential vs. Assistant: Essential does away with all of the detailed pitch and timing editing. These are the things you can do in Assistant but not in Essential:
  • Change the phrasing intensity within notes (from super flat to exaggerated)
  • Change the pitch transitions (from instant to gradual - making a pitch transition more gradual can make it sound more natural)
  • Fix drifting pitch within a note (or add some)
  • Alter formants (only really useful for silly-sounding effects or the occasional note that was sung a tiny bit too brightly or darkly)
  • Change a note's amplitude
  • Change the timing within a single note (Essential only allows adjusting the overall timing of a note)
  • Transient shaping
  • Note separation tools (allegedly Essential has a basic version of this and it's more advanced in Assistant? No idea. Having the basic version of this is pretty much indispensable IMO, if Essential has that I don't think this item matters much.)
  • Export detected notes as MIDI
I'm not sure on the exact differences in terms of note separation - everything else is useful (some of it very much so) but not absolutely necessary.
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by Pigfarmer Jr » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:24 am

grumpymike wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:19 pm
ReaTune. So if you copy or move the item, any time based FX parameters come with it. Whereas if the ReaTune were on the track, you’d have to re-draw the tuning lines.
If I tune with ReaTune and then have to edit (move vocal) I just print/render the track and import the new tuned vocal. But you have to remember to do that. So I was in the habit, for a while, in editing (with tuning or not) and then rendering and importing. I typically only use light compression and a pretty light EQ on our vocal tracks but I'll typically print those as well. I try not to print spacial effects (reverb, delay etc) mainly because I often want to change them later but sometimes because I've sidechained the reverb.
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grumpymike
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by grumpymike » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:42 am

Pigfarmer Jr wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:24 am
grumpymike wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:19 pm
ReaTune. So if you copy or move the item, any time based FX parameters come with it. Whereas if the ReaTune were on the track, you’d have to re-draw the tuning lines.
If I tune with ReaTune and then have to edit (move vocal) I just print/render the track and import the new tuned vocal.
You’re describing “the correct way” to do things, just like mastering should be done last, too, and you end up with a leaner project that uses less CPU. But when you’re working rapidly and don’t know your song structure yet, sometimes different workflows work better...

Btw check into Reaper sub projects if you haven’t. They kind of help some of these flows.
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Re: Tuning Vocals in Post

Post by Pigfarmer Jr » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:51 am

grumpymike wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:42 am
But when you’re working rapidly and don’t know your song structure yet....
For me it is faster to tune, render, and then chop up the track (or tracks) however I like.
grumpymike wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:42 am
Btw check into Reaper sub projects if you haven’t. They kind of help some of these flows.
Never heard of such a thing. Thanks.
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