The Song Fight Bulletin Board

This is what I find enraging. Absolutely enRAGING.

fluffy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Also they still do the garbage "play count pooling" thing that Spotify does. Pay $10/month for Apple Music, stream nothing but Octothorpe, most of the music goes to bands that aren't Octothorpe.

But not enraging enough to stop paying for the service...?

Also, lol @ Apple Music

radio stations for discover

hahaha. Have I mentioned that Pandora stations these days have a variety of different "modes" you can choose from, like, Crowd Favorites, Deep Cuts, Artist Only (for premium subscribers), etc.? https://help.pandora.com/s/article/Pand ... uage=en_US

yeah but can Pandora discovery put those albums directly in my library in a way that I can access them offline?

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:12 pm

But not enraging enough to stop paying for the service...?

Naw. As an expert American I can maintain and even nurture anger while participating in the thing I hate.

Wellp, the one thing I was hoping to use Apple Music for (getting my smart playlists to sync to my phone correctly) doesn't even fucking work

Good thing this is just a free trial which I will probably be canceling in two months

fluffy wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:14 pm

yeah but can Pandora discovery put those albums directly in my library in a way that I can access them offline?

Yes, you can save stations for offline use. We've had that for a while. You have to be a paying subscriber though ($5/month ad-free radio or $10/month full-featured) and I think it only works automatically, saving your top three most listened to stations (plus your "Thumbprint Radio" station which is a station based on every song you've ever thumbed up). I think it downloads 3hrs worth of music for each station. https://help.pandora.com/s/article/Offl ... uage=en_US

Albums, not songs

fluffy wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:00 pm

Albums, not songs

Oh, misread as stations, sorry. Anyway yes with Premium you can have as many offline albums as you can fit on your device. Just like every other service. All these services are the same old crap, good luck finding any huge differentiator.

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:37 pm

All these services are the same old crap, good luck finding any huge differentiator.

I'd say this one goes beyond huge:

Pandora is only available in the U.S. right now

vowlvom wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 pm

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:37 pm

All these services are the same old crap, good luck finding any huge differentiator.

I'd say this one goes beyond huge:

Pandora is only available in the U.S. right now

Touché. Anyway, we've been wandering very far off topic. Bonus points to whomever of us pulls Esthero's stunt in our next Song Fight! entry.

jb wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:48 am

This is what I find enraging. Absolutely enRAGING.

fluffy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Also they still do the garbage "play count pooling" thing that Spotify does. Pay $10/month for Apple Music, stream nothing but Octothorpe, most of the music goes to bands that aren't Octothorpe.

Looks like Deezer are having a go at a fairer system:
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/is-there ... y-artists/

Might have to give them a go, although I'm generally having Complex Thoughts about streaming and how I listen to music recently.

vowlvom wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:58 pm

jb wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:48 am

This is what I find enraging. Absolutely enRAGING.

fluffy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Also they still do the garbage "play count pooling" thing that Spotify does. Pay $10/month for Apple Music, stream nothing but Octothorpe, most of the music goes to bands that aren't Octothorpe.

Looks like Deezer are having a go at a fairer system:
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/is-there ... y-artists/

Might have to give them a go, although I'm generally having Complex Thoughts about streaming and how I listen to music recently.

Nice. Hopefully that'll be enough incentive for most listeners to start using Deezer; as it is a lot of people think that they're doing artists a favor by listening on Spotify.

Also this quote from the Spotify dude is enraging:

Spotify’s chief economist, Will Page, has raised a couple of points in defense of the existing model. Under the current system, every time you stream a song, it has the same value, though of course that’s only fractions of a cent. With the user-centric approach, the value of each stream would vary from listener to listener: a paid subscriber who streams a hundred songs per month would, in theory, give more to each artist than someone who listens to a thousand songs per month. Page, who has since left Spotify, argued in a recent interview that this would lead to royalty payouts that are “more volatile, and less predictable.”

More money is better than less money. Streaming revenues will always be volatile, unless you're one of the people who already benefits from the way that streaming revenues currently work. This argument is not a reasonable defense of the existing model by any means.

I don't have any data to back this up but I suspect that the handful of people who listen to me any given month are listening to fewer than 7,000 streams, which is how much they'd need to be listening to for me to make less from their streams than I am already.

Yeah, if I listen to 1 sockpuppet song in a month, and that's my only stream for that month, then sockpuppet should get $7.

Why does it matter that it makes the royalties less volatile? WHY WOULD INDIE ARTISTS GIVE A FUCKING SHIT ABOUT ROYALTY VOLATILITY IF THE ALTERNATIVE IS NO ROYALTIES.

"We get no money, but at least it's predictable."

fuck that guy

So there's actually a good reason I'm using Deezer? Cool.

Looks like I have already signed up for the Deezer free account. I'll check it out and see about going to the paid service.

I noticed that they are rolling out the more equitable payment system in France with an eye toward expansion (maybe?) Hopefully their test works well and it comes to the states (which I suspect would be the last region to get it.) If they do that, then I'll definitely go the subscription route, at least until I see if I actually use it or not.

jb wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:00 am

Yeah, if I listen to 1 sockpuppet song in a month, and that's my only stream for that month, then sockpuppet should get $7.

Why does it matter that it makes the royalties less volatile? WHY WOULD INDIE ARTISTS GIVE A FUCKING SHIT ABOUT ROYALTY VOLATILITY IF THE ALTERNATIVE IS NO ROYALTIES.

"We get no money, but at least it's predictable."

fuck that guy

I think you're missing the point. You know who gives a fucking shit about royalty volatility? The big three labels. Spotify's not dependent on artists (directly). They're dependent on the big three labels.

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:19 am

jb wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:00 am

Yeah, if I listen to 1 sockpuppet song in a month, and that's my only stream for that month, then sockpuppet should get $7.

Why does it matter that it makes the royalties less volatile? WHY WOULD INDIE ARTISTS GIVE A FUCKING SHIT ABOUT ROYALTY VOLATILITY IF THE ALTERNATIVE IS NO ROYALTIES.

"We get no money, but at least it's predictable."

fuck that guy

I think you're missing the point. You know who gives a fucking shit about royalty volatility? The big three labels. Spotify's not dependent on artists (directly). They're dependent on the big three labels.

Oh I get the point, and I know how much the streamers rely on the labels-- aside from new music, the labels control all the old music. People want to stream their Fleetwood Mac a lot more than they want to stream any of our indie stuff.

I don't think that invalidates my point, it just makes it quixotic, or one of those words like that. Sisyphean?

jast wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:48 am

So there's actually a good reason I'm using Deezer? Cool.

I've never heard of this before, so I checked it out a little yesterday. Is there a reason I should use this instead of Spotify or is it s Lyft v. Uber/ Pepsi v. Coke kind of thing?

ken wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:15 am

I've never heard of this before, so I checked it out a little yesterday. Is there a reason I should use this instead of Spotify or is it s Lyft v. Uber/ Pepsi v. Coke kind of thing?

IF they go to a more fair payment for artists then THAT would be the reason. As it stands, I cannot think of one.

Are there artists on spotify that aren't on Deezer? Let me change that. Are there artists I would give a shit about on spotify that aren't on Deezer?

ken wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:15 am

I've never heard of this before, so I checked it out a little yesterday. Is there a reason I should use this instead of Spotify or is it s Lyft v. Uber/ Pepsi v. Coke kind of thing?

Other than them trying to move to a fairer revenue model? My reasons for using Deezer are a little incidental: they used to have a partnership with a large German retailer who sold a re-branded Deezer subscription for 20% off. They have since discontinued that deal, so now I'm on the regular plan, but inertia (and small mismatches between the catalogs of the various streaming platforms) prevented me from switching. Also I happened upon a 1-year-for-€60 voucher at some point, so that's a good reason, too.

I'm not religious about which platform to choose (though I tend to be a little biased against the biggest monopoly-like companies, on principle), and Deezer's recommendations tend to be a little repetitive and a little too tryhard about suggesting new types of music to you (if you use "Flow", at least, not the daily/weekly playlists which I barely ever look at)... so I wouldn't say there are technical reasons to use it.