The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Over the half way mark!

Submit an original song by June 19th at 11:59 PM (EDT) that fits the following criteria

Title: "June Moon"
Non-optional challenge: Lyrics must contain no rhyming couplets and no perfect end rhymes.

Send your MP3 to nurein.sidefight@gmail.com

Good luck!

No end rhymes means only the end of a line, right? So there could be internal rhymes all over the place as long as the end doesn't rhyme? Because I was wondering if this means, strictly speaking, that the title must not be mentioned in the lyrics since it rhymes. I guess not.

noma wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:24 am

No end rhymes means only the end of a line, right? So there could be internal rhymes all over the place as long as the end doesn't rhyme? Because I was wondering if this means, strictly speaking, that the title must not be mentioned in the lyrics since it rhymes. I guess not.

Yeah that’s how I read it - and it’s only PERFECT rhymes that are prohibited.

So you could have ‘sky/behind’ or ‘laughter/after’ or ‘queen/machine’ end of line rhymes (as long as they’re not a couplet), but not ‘daughter/slaughter’

Actually, ‘laughter/after’ might not be allowed.

What about repetition, judges?

Is repetition a perfect rhyme?

(Obviously I’m still avoiding couplets)

I don’t think a word can rhyme with itself. Unless it’s a homonym, but then it wouldn’t be the same word, just sound the same.
However, a song full of homonyms but the lyric sheet has the same spelling for the word? Might be a grey area.

gizo wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:57 am

So you could have ‘sky/behind’ or ‘laughter/after’ or ‘queen/machine’ end of line rhymes (as long as they’re not a couplet), but not ‘daughter/slaughter’

From this list, I would only count sky/behind as a slant rhyme. ‘laughter/after’ or ‘queen/machine’ are both phonetically identical, so they have perfect rhymes, whereas ‘rain/again’ don’t rhyme at all, despite being spelled the same. Can we get a ruling on this point? I would think the kinds of imperfect rhymes that are allowed are things like ‘dream/seen’ or ‘bloke/float.’

Cybronica wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:43 am

gizo wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:57 am

So you could have ‘sky/behind’ or ‘laughter/after’ or ‘queen/machine’ end of line rhymes (as long as they’re not a couplet), but not ‘daughter/slaughter’

From this list, I would only count sky/behind as a slant rhyme. ‘laughter/after’ or ‘queen/machine’ are both phonetically identical, so they have perfect rhymes, whereas ‘rain/again’ don’t rhyme at all, despite being spelled the same. Can we get a ruling on this point? I would think the kinds of imperfect rhymes that are allowed are things like ‘dream/seen’ or ‘bloke/float.’

Thank you - that is a very good correction and I feel like a bit of a silly for being so obviously wrong! <furiously scraps plans for a Queen Machine>

I'm not usually one to go hard on the rules for challenges, but I would say that I don't really want to hear people doing all they can to squeeze rhymes in while circumventing the wording of the challenge. I'm sure you'll all do it in good faith, and if you can write a great song which has zero rhymes you'll score points with me.

Edit: I will almost certainly mark you down for repeating, unless somehow it sounds awesome (but chances are I won't think that even if you do ).

furrypedro wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:10 pm

Edit: I will almost certainly mark you down for repeating, unless somehow it sounds awesome (but chances are I won't think that even if you do ).

Well bugger - I just re-read my lyrics and looked at the whole song (instead of just looking at a single verse at a time) and I realised that the first two lines of each verse repeat the same last words.

Whoops!

That's going to be a pain to unpick

(but hey - grateful that we've had this discussion and I've noticed it now, rather than when the judging begins!)

gizo wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:08 pm

Well bugger - I just re-read my lyrics and looked at the whole song (instead of just looking at a single verse at a time) and I realised that the first two lines of each verse repeat the same last words.

Whoops!

That's going to be a pain to unpick

Just ask yourself critically, does it actually sound good and not just a bit weak and rubbish, and if you genuinely think it's a good lyric then you might just get away with it.

I can't promise anything until I hear it, but I do err towards a good song trumping a challenge fail.

Cybronica wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:43 am

gizo wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:57 am

So you could have ‘sky/behind’ or ‘laughter/after’ or ‘queen/machine’ end of line rhymes (as long as they’re not a couplet), but not ‘daughter/slaughter’

From this list, I would only count sky/behind as a slant rhyme. ‘laughter/after’ or ‘queen/machine’ are both phonetically identical, so they have perfect rhymes, whereas ‘rain/again’ don’t rhyme at all, despite being spelled the same. Can we get a ruling on this point? I would think the kinds of imperfect rhymes that are allowed are things like ‘dream/seen’ or ‘bloke/float.’

This also depends on accent as well. My Australian pronunciation of “again” is chameleon like depending on the context/emphasis of the sentence, and often rhymes with rain.

(See the song ‘Pasta’ by Angie McMahon; the comments on YouTube are full of people shocked that she managed to rhyme “pasta” with “faster”, but in reality that’s just how we say those words with our accent.)

crumpart wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:38 am

(See the song ‘Pasta’ by Angie McMahon; the comments on YouTube are full of people shocked that she managed to rhyme “pasta” with “faster”, but in reality that’s just how we say those words with our accent.)

Mark Humble once did my favorite rhyme in a song.

'So finish up that slice of pizza
I’ll school you in the ways of Nietzsche'

I had to do a doubletake that it sounded so smooth. Must have been the Brooklyn accent.

https://spintown.bandcamp.com/track/im- ... abe-shadow

gizo wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:08 pm

Well bugger - I just re-read my lyrics and looked at the whole song (instead of just looking at a single verse at a time) and I realised that the first two lines of each verse repeat the same last words.

But that could be done for poetic emphasis! I do stuff like that all the time - would hate for you to scrap a decent lyric when you could definitely justify it.

crumpart wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:38 am

This also depends on accent as well. My Australian pronunciation of “again” is chameleon like depending on the context/emphasis of the sentence, and often rhymes with rain.

This is a good point! I suppose a less American-centric way to put it is I would classify the rhymes phonetically, not visually. But we’re just doing a shadow, so my input is purely hypothetical!

Rhymes within a line are ok, right, like, including the title "June Moon" within a line?

And re: repetition, can we use the same lyrics for every chorus? Or are we expected to not repeat _any_ lines or anything _ever_...?

Internal rhymes are fine in my book and I definitely think you can repeat sections etc as I'm way more interested in hearing cool songs than pouring over lyrics hunting for a word that rhymes with a line two verses ago!

no matter what you hear onomatopoeia

In a British accent, this rhymes just fine. An American accent with a slight Utah drawl, hear, and ...poeia are nowhere near each other.

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:00 am

And re: repetition, can we use the same lyrics for every chorus? Or are we expected to not repeat _any_ lines or anything _ever_...?

Oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit....

Alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright alright

FINALLY finished the mandibles lyric…. This was probably the most difficult lyric I’ve ever done and it’s just a shadow! Probably didn’t help that I decided to add perfect rhymes at the start of the next line… At least we have a whole ~24 hours to record and mix the durn thing!

I said it in my lyrics post but I want to say here for extra visibility that my song is NOT about a person.