The Song Fight Bulletin Board

The Nur Ein continues with Round One

Round One begins now.

Title: Pyramids

Challenge: Use a repeating melodic phrase that gets shorter as the song progresses/builds.

Create a new original song from the prompt by May 25 at 11:59 PM Eastern.

Email your song to nurein.sidefight@gmail.com

"Pyramids" Listening Party
-Monday 5/26 Round 1 - 8:00 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpLmVA5kPj8

The songs are up:

https://nure.in/titles/2698F162E7787478F1526DF7D3A425E6

SquirrelProof/Eric Novak, please post your lyrics to the lyrics thread when you have a chance, thanks!

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Mon May 26, 2025 11:36 am

SquirrelProof/Eric Novak, please post your lyrics to the lyrics thread when you have a chance, thanks!

they're up now!

Damn good group of songs. re: Challenge - Weird how I pictured one thing in my mind but got something else entirely. If I missed something (obvious) about how you implemented the challenge let me know.

BSS - I like the guitars right from the start. The mix is very good. I like the melody. The vocal performance might be a hair tentative sounding but it’s a relatively small issue. Good first impression. Challenge: not super obvious on first listen. The intro guitar is 8 bars and then breaks at 4 bars. The “lead” guitars are certainly shorter phrases in the break. Which I like but…

Brown Word - Cool groove (again.) The rhythm track is busy but seems to work pretty well. The vocals aren’t exactly buried but not as up front as most and it gives it a cool feeling but maybe just a hair hard to hear depending on where I’m listening. Challenge: At the End

Carl Bruno Jr - I like that synth sound. The bass line and rhythm guitars work well together (and keys, too.) Challenge: Intro 8 bars, next break 4 bars, next break 2 bars.

Cavedwellers - Cool guitars, cool guitar break that leads into that… what is that effect? Sounds cool (2:30-2:51.) This mix sounds pretty good, the vocals maybe down a hair or not as clear compared to some others but it works for me. It’s a grower, too. I needed extra listens to get into it but that’s no bad thing. Challenge: That intro melody/instrument (guitar with synth effect?) is 8 bars, then the next break is 6 bars and the last break is 4 bars. The intro guitar phrasing shortens plus there are progressive shorter phrases in the outro.

Cybronica - I like the challenge angle and it works well for me. The lyric angle is creative and well implemented. I like the changing rhyme scheme from verse to chorus. Challenge: Chorus shortening in the middle (cool idea.)

Eric Novak - The vocals seem out of tune and it’s especially distracting with some of the harmonies (especially when they go high.) Challenge: 8 bar intro, 4 bar break; step by step section.

The Friends - I’m liking the chorus a lot. The backing/harmony vocals seem to clash a bit with the lead a little in places. When they work, they work well. That low slide guitar is effective. What a growl. This is another grower. I’m liking it more on repeated listens. Good arrangement. Challenge: Intro 8 bars, break 4 bars, outro riffs are shorter and almost stuttering/skipping beats.

Glennny - Cool angle. Guitars sound good and are very prominent in the arrangement. The vocals seem low in comparison. They also seem a hair tentative for some reason. The sample bridge was a great touch but it took an extra listen (or two) to get the musical progression/challenge.. or, I guess, regression, which I felt you did well.

Grumpy Mike - Definitely got a Muse “Uprising” feel from this intro and bass line. The chorus is catchy. Dang I like that groove. I have to admit this is sneaking into my favorites of the round. Challenge: Guessing the synth intro (8 measures) that goes into a break later (5 measures) and then fills qualifies. Doesn’t seem like a super obvious feature of the challenge. Shortening it at the front end was kind of cool, though. (Unless I’m missing something else.)

Jellyfish - I like the angle on the title as I just returned from the Missouri Recycling Association conference so the subject matter seems a bit appropriate. The vocals aren’t super strong and they’re a bit buried but some of that might be the mix/arrangement. The mix doesn’t really stick together for me, either. Challenge: Rethink, Reduce, Reuse sections by lines.

Ken Mahru - Catchy. The mix feels powerful. Probably that strong bass and steady rhythm. The vox seems a bit too up in the mix depending on how I listen. Challenge: the guitar solo? And in the chorus, but when you combine the two halves into one full, four line section it’s sort of a build even though it’s also a shortening.

Le Tits Now - I like the melodies. And the arrangement. The challenge, except for the ending, seems subtle to me.

Lean Mean GM - There’s a hint of rhythm in the vocal that reminds me of Tone Loc in ‘Funky Cold Medina.’ Which is funny. Cool bass break. The challenge was subtle enough I had to read/listen carefully but the bass is a highlight of this song. I love the Major Tom section. Challenge: The I’m Not Lost section? I think the bass line in the choruses, too.

Lucky Witch - A trippy arrangement. I like the melody and I like the lyric. The challenge was met a bit subtly when I stop scrutinizing and just sit back and listen.

Max Bombast - Loving the vocals here, melody and performance and doubling. You need a pop filter in places. 1:55 and 2:00 for instance. There may be a bit of a mid range build up, or maybe it’s just the guitar tones that I wish was slightly clearer. But this is cool. Challenge: In the guitar rhythms, right? Or maybe I missed it completely?

Micah Sommersmith - Mix isn’t as clear as some other entries. I like your angle on the challenge. The obvious shortening of the Remember sections. It was cool reading the additional pyramid shaped melody motif but I’m not sure how apparent it is without the hint.

Sober - Loving the layered vocals. And the overall feel of this. And the heavy bass. That pedal steel is gorgeous. Maybe the mix isn’t super clear but I think it reinforces the drowning metaphor. The vox starts off pretty loud in the mix but fits nicely once the full arrangement hits. I love the vocal harmony on the long held notes but I wonder if making that last note short wouldn’t give a cool effect, too. But then we’d miss that resolution at the end and it’s super tasty. Love that held note/feedback thingy at the end. (That’s technical talk.) Challenge: Shortening the choruses.

WreckdoM - I always seem to like your guitar tones. Challenge: Get Rich section is obvious. The shortening/stuttering of the lines is a cool effect. Those samples work very well with the musical background.

Pigfarmer Jr wrote: ↑

Tue May 27, 2025 5:52 pm

Ken Mahru - Catchy. The mix feels powerful. Probably that strong bass and steady rhythm. The vox seems a bit too up in the mix depending on how I listen. Challenge: the guitar solo? And in the chorus, but when you combine the two halves into one full, four line section it’s sort of a build even though it’s also a shortening.

Thank you for the early review! I felt I accomplished the challenge in two ways: 1. The two measure intro synth riff repeats a number of times and is shorter each time. (I hope this was so well done you didn't even notice it happening). 2. The chorus melody/lyrics is shorter between the first and second chorus. This then comes back in the final chorus starting full and complete and shortening down to just one line.

I'm not sure if I'll have time to write comments this round. I enjoyed the majority of these songs though, to the point where I had to really split hairs to rank my top 10+. Like PFJr I had something specific in mind with the challenge, but I liked that folks came up with a lot of other solutions that I hadn't thought of. Good work, y'all!

ken wrote: ↑

Wed May 28, 2025 10:18 am

1. The two measure intro synth riff repeats a number of times and is shorter each time. (I hope this was so well done you didn't even notice it happening). 2. The chorus melody/lyrics is shorter between the first and second chorus. This then comes back in the final chorus starting full and complete and shortening down to just one line.

A couple of thoughts on challenges in general based on your explanation. And to be clear, I don't necessarily think you did anything "bad" here.

1. "hope... you didn't even notice it" is a double edged sword. If a listener can't really figure it out then is it a feature of the song? And are the challenges in songwriting competitions intended to be "featured" at all? I think you run the risk of being downgraded if the challenge isn't featured or, at least, fairly obvious.

2. The first two choruses count as a "repeating melodic phrase that gets shorter as the song progresses" but if you combine them at the end you've actually lengthened the chorus again by either restating the longer phrase or combining the two into something longer than either of the previous. I think it works in the song (and is likely the best choice) but I'm not sure if I were looking strictly at the challenge how I would feel about it.

Which brings up the counterargument for the challenges being "featured" in a song. Do you sacrifice the best arrangement/structure for the sake of strict adherence to a challenge? I think each judge is likely to have a different answer or degree to which that is wise.

And I only bring this up because I was thinking a little bit about these topics while listening to these songs. I don't know if it means a whole lot, but while working today, your song was the one that popped into my head the most. To be fair, several of these songs were rattling around, but yours the most.

Pigfarmer Jr wrote: ↑

Wed May 28, 2025 7:08 pm

1. "hope... you didn't even notice it" is a double edged sword. If a listener can't really figure it out then is it a feature of the song? And are the challenges in songwriting competitions intended to be "featured" at all? I think you run the risk of being downgraded if the challenge isn't featured or, at least, fairly obvious.

As a contestant I always felt like I was being put in a no-win situation when faced with comments like this from judges. "Make it obvious" some would say and then "It was too obvious" others would say, or, "You fulfilled the challenge but not 'enough'". We're asking folks to post lyrics, because there is no guarantee every judge will understand every word of every song's lyrics. Maybe similarly we should be asking folks to explain their challenge fulfillment. Barring that I personally am weighting challenge fulfillment less than e.g. lyrics, composition, etc.

I see the challenge as a required element. It doesn’t need to be featured but if it’s so obscure that attentive listeners can’t find it you’ve missed the boat. If your ego keeps you from stating it in your lyric post then you’re effectively hiding it, or you didn’t meet the challenge…how are we to know? You should expect a ding in score. If you simply meet the challenge it’s not a ding, but if you brilliantly incorporate it into your song structure, lyric, or some way no one would think of, you get extra points.

Same for lyrics, and use of the title. This week was Pyramids…if you write clever fucking lyrics about pyramids you get extra points. If you only leaned on the obvious you don’t get dinged.

Waited on the judging to divulge my reviews, I listened awhile back. Mix is great on most, I'll comment if anything stands out, but altogether, I'm listening, learning from y'all, great work. Really good batch.

I'm not listening out for pyramidal musical expressions, it's not immediately obvs to me in some cases, I'll let the judges handle those

BSS - Solid BSS sound. Pyramid theme: pyramid scheme. I'm so impressed that not only do y'all get together regularly but the entries are so consistent. The chorus is simple but catchy, I like the 2nd voice popping in with "no way". Guitars sit in the mix so well.

Brown Word and the Big Whine - I wanted this to stay big and airy except at the end where it contracts as the urgency rises. I couldn't figure a way to speak of pyramids without calling to mind my 10th grade history professor who took a class period before Thanksgiving break to tell us some Art Bell level stuff about pyramids. Disclaimer: I don't know if Mr. Moore had any encounter at the Luxor hotel, nor the contents of his medicine cabinet. Pyramid theme: physical pyramids. I struggled with integrating the bass clarinet into the sound, it had to be there, just how... not sure whether it really worked everywhere it was.

2 carl bruno jr. - Great intro. I like everything about this, the mix is good, all instrumentation gels, I'm paying attention because the instrumentation is similar to my stuff (Brown Word). I like the vox especially over catchy, pleasing guitars + synths. Pyramid theme: pyramid mythology.

Cavedwellers - Yes wah. Great voice, the delivery is really pleasing over that impeccable guitar sound. Pyramid theme: a hangout spot called the Pyramids.

Cybronica - Your voice is beautiful. Spare and well placed instrumentation to showcase the poetic lyrics. This is a really gorgeous sound, I appreciate the style. Pyramid theme: Pyramids as tombs

Eric Novak - Detuned guitars carry melodically challenging vocals. Definite dissonance in the chorus, intentional? Pyramid theme: metaphors around pyramid's construction and heirarchical symbolism.

2 Friends - That chorus is so pretty - wow! The mix becomes part of the song when the dirgy guitar creeps across the back from ear to ear, well done. The toy sound sticks out just a tad in the mix. Pyramid theme: metaphor of class as a pyramid.

Great glennny guitars! Strong start, melodically complex, vox handle that effortlessly. I do love me some samples. Pyramid theme: Pyramid gameshow. Swell guitars in the outro.

Grumpy Mike - This is strong in performance, however the mix sounds low to me, distant, except for percussion in the verse comes in on the right dominantly and it is a bit distracting. The parts are well done, the vox while there are a lot are clear and engaging. Pyramid theme: paranoia/tinfoil hat business (?).

Jellyfish - Pyramid theme: pyramidal heirarchy. I enjoy the lyrical theme. Using the robot voice to read off the levels is clever. In the mix some things stick up a little more than others.

Ken Mahru - Pyramid theme: properties of pyramids, divine and mathematical. I like your vocals, sorta reminds me of a reserved Gibby Haynes. Good synth.

Le Tits Now - Pyramid theme: allegories between today's social heirarchy and the Great Pyramids. Great lyrics. Catchy hook. The mix seems a little low until more instruments come in, then the vox sound comparatively quiet, top loop is a little dominant.

Lean Mean Groove Machine - Lyrics draw one in immediately. Pyramid theme: witnessing Great Pyramids. Nice backing vox, those are sweeeet! Bass is baller.

Lucky Witch and the Righteous Ghost - vintage-y sound is captivating. Pyramid theme: pyramid as tomb.

Max Bombast - Strong start. Nice groove in the chorus. Guitars are going hard and sound really cool. They do sit a little dominant in the mix as does the percussion. Pyramid theme: heirarchical shape/nature of pyramids.

Micah Sommer - Great tenor voice. Pyramid theme: pyramid as allegory for past greatnet

Sober - Big lovely harmonies, brooding despite chill and atmospheric feel. Pyramid theme: pyramid objects.

WreckdoM - Pyramid theme: pyramid schemes. I would've had more guitar wheedling, ideally, but ran outta time.

Re: challenge takes, I love finding a way to subvert the challenge. It’s like a fun puzzle to see what I can do to fulfill it in the most unexpected ways (like taking a chunk out of the middle of the chorus for round 1).

Congrats Mike!
well deserved! Good song!

the question is...

are you a man or are you a mauer?
If you're a mauer, oh you're a very manly mauer
Are you a mauer or are you a man?
If you're a man, that makes you a mauer of a man

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Wed May 28, 2025 11:18 pm

Pigfarmer Jr wrote: ↑

Wed May 28, 2025 7:08 pm

1. "hope... you didn't even notice it" is a double edged sword. If a listener can't really figure it out then is it a feature of the song? And are the challenges in songwriting competitions intended to be "featured" at all? I think you run the risk of being downgraded if the challenge isn't featured or, at least, fairly obvious.

As a contestant I always felt like I was being put in a no-win situation when faced with comments like this from judges.

I prefer a better song than a better implementation of the challenge. And to be clear, I was mostly asking the question. I think how much a challenge *should* weigh probably changes by the challenge. Or, put another way, if a judge has to spend extra time to determine if you hit the challenge at all, much less well, it follows that it might fare worse when compared to other songs. After all, the songs aren't judged in a vacuum. What might be an above average implementation in one challenge/group of songs might be below average with a different group of songs.

We're asking folks to post lyrics, because there is no guarantee every judge will understand every word of every song's lyrics. Maybe similarly we should be asking folks to explain their challenge fulfillment.

It's only my opinion, but I think both should be mandatory.

glennny wrote: ↑

Thu May 29, 2025 12:24 pm

are you a man or are you a mauer?
If you're a mauer, oh you're a very manly mauer
Are you a mauer or are you a man?
If you're a man, that makes you a mauer of a man

Sounds like David Lindley’s “quarter of a man”.

This was another pretty good round. Again my top 10-12 songs were pretty close and could have gone any number of ways.

Berkeley Social Scene
I like the intro, nice indie rock band sound and vibes, cool guitar melody. The vocals could use some EQ to take some of the "honk"/nasal sound out of them. I like the flow and contrast as the song goes through the verse to the prechorus to the chorus. I like the way the vocals distort in the chorus and backups come in. Cool bridge, though I think you could have cut out a couple repeats of that first part of it. The challenge fulfillment is a little more subtle than I'd prefer but I didn't count that against the song much.

Brown Word
I like the lyrics. Musically I don't know that this really feels like it comes together for me. I wish the guitar was less bright and the vocals were more bright. The guitar noodling is kinda loud and distracting. Some kind of psychedelic effects on it, at least some delay, might make it blend in better with the ambient background stuff. Very clear implementation of the challenge at the end and I appreciate that what happens at the end fits the vibe of the lyrics and is coherent.

Carlo Bruno
I enjoyed the lyrics. "Chakralize" is my favorite word of this round. Good groove and I like the breakdown bridge after the second chorus. Music sounds good and overall everything feels like it all fits together well. Another clear challenge implementation.

Cavedwellers
For some irrational reason that auto-wah guitar effect makes me think of the Grateful Dead and that one Edie Brickell song and that bugs me. Are you guys just doing nothing but Berkeley fanboy songs this year? I appreciate the Thalassa reference in particular. I used to play pool there with three friends a couple times a night for years in the early '00s, before I got involved with Song Fight IRL. I assume you heard the Bear's Lair is being demolished, right? Anyway, auto-wah aside I think this one's pretty solid. More clear challenge implementation. Cy

Cybronica
I like the style of this and the lyrics. Those guitar smacks for percussion could stand to be a lot tighter, though, timing wise. I start out picturing a couple singer and a guitarist sitting in a dark foggy forest, until that organ comes in. It sounds out of place to me. I would have gone for flute or pipes or something reedy. Good challenge fulfillment and thank you for the explanation.

Eric Novak
I am still having a really hard time listening to your songs because the pitch of your vocals is, to be blunt, truly awful. I'm not trying to be mean, I just want to convey that off pitch vocals are going to be something that the vast majority of people cannot overlook, and that will make them want to stop listening to a song. I don't expect anybody here to be such an amazing singer that they can record perfect vocals in very little time for songs they just made up, so I personally am OK with it if folks use some of the many widely available pitch correction tools to try to tune things. I would much prefer hearing some occasional mild artifacts from tuning than a lot of sour notes. Anyway, other than the vocals this was ok. For some reason this song kinda reminded me of "Invisible Sun" by The Police. Very clear challenge implementation.

The Friends
I continue to enjoy your instrumentation choices. I am curious what is making those low "whoo whoo" background noises in the intro. Is that an effect on the glockenspiel or celesta or whatever the intro melody instrument is? Since I was just talking about pitch, you've got some pitch issues in the verse. That chorus is delicious though, and reminds me of Jon Brion produced songs, with the upright bass, the arpeggiated bells, and Mellotron strings. Very fun noise "solo". I don't get the connection between the lyrics and "pyramids" but I like the lyrics anyway.

Glennny
Funny idea for the song. The mix sounds very mono through the first chorus, till the acoustic guitar comes in and helps fill out the sides. In spite of the novel idea for the subject of the song, I wound up not really connecting with the lyrics. I appreciated the clear and creative challenge fulfillment.

Grumpy Mike
Starts off sounding like Muse to me. Epic arena rock time?! Except no guitars to start. I think the verse could use a pad behind it, it's a little sparse with just drums, bass, and very dry sounding vocals. Muse it up. Chorus is nice and hooky. I feel like it could have used some arpeggiated synth, like upward triad triplets. Some kind of counter melody. Are you the Nur Ein contestant who uses (4/4 with a swing | 12/8) the most?! The bridge also sounds a bit sparse, like I wish the vocals had a bunch of echo on them, and some wild synth or guitar noises were happening in the background with lots of reverb on them. Overall I enjoyed this one though.

Jellyfish etc.
Your verse vocals are buried in the mix. Sounds like some voice cracking in there, some intentional some maybe not. Chorus vocals are maybe slightly more prominent but could use more treble/volume/ambience. I very much appreciate the overall idea and the way you implemented the challenge in the choruses. I enjoy the "beep beep beep boop" synth plucks in the verses, and the claps in place of the missing words. I think for me the message of this one carried it and gave it a boost.

Ken
Please please play some real drums. Some live hand claps and/or tambo or something simple could help add some more juice to the percussion. And is that fake bass too?! I don't really get the chorus lyrics but I enjoy the chorus. Good melodies throughout. Pretty clear challenge fulfillment to me.

Le Tits Now
I really like the sounds in the intro. The verse feels a bit disco than the chorus gives me '90s vibes, like Luscious Jackson's "Naked Eye". Not sure those two things fit well together for me. That's got to be Pete in verse two, right? Then Vom for verse three? I feel like the third verse lyrics start to lose me, and I'm not that into the half time and semi-rap feel. Also ... "take 'em to the Horus". Wow. The tone of the lyrics is kind of all over the place.

Lean Mean
Very Dr. Demento ish. The humor doesn't land for me unfortunately.

LWRG
I am really not sure what it is, but the Omnichord often sounds out of tune from the other instruments to me in your tracks. Presumably though since it's electronic it's probably actually in tune? Do y'all try to tune the live instruments to the Omnichord? Is that a live piano? Maybe that is the issue because that's not something that'd be easy to tune to the Omnichord. The solo sounds in tune with the Omnichord though. Anyway. This is a cool song, in terms of the chords, melodies, lyrics, vocals. and overall vibe.

Max
Good vocals as usual. Sort of unusually lofi guitar/bass/drums sounds for you. Between that and the "second verse, same as the first", kinda feels like you were maybe short on time. Overall it's OK. I'm not sure I love the key change for the outro part. You've got some massive plossives happening, probably being emphasized by compression.

Micah
I like the concept for your shortening melody going with the sinking of the pyramids. You pull it off in a way that sounds natural. You've got some vocal pitch issues occasionally. Not sure about ending that chorus melody sooo low. I know you're going for a rock band sound but I think the instrumental melody could have sounded cool on accordion. Don't want to pigeonhole you though. Cool ending with the key changes.

Sober
Frankly I think you were robbed, but, that is how this game goes. I really enjoyed this one. I think nearly all the choices you've made here work for me. I don't love the initial long bending up note in the main vocal when it's by itself. The bends up after that work better, I think due to the backups. The backups are great throughout. Also I'm not a fan of the times when your voice kind cracks/growls as you attack a word, which I'm sure is a stylistic choice. It sounds a little out of control and off to me. Another nice use of the idea of sinking.

WreckdoM
Can't help but love the opening movie sample. Surprisingly straightforward rock band vibe otherwise, for WreckdoM, but I think it mostly works ok. Not bad.

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 10:31 pm

This was another pretty good round. Again my top 10-12 songs were pretty close and could have gone any number of ways.

LWRG
I am really not sure what it is, but the Omnichord often sounds out of tune from the other instruments to me in your tracks. Presumably though since it's electronic it's probably actually in tune? Do y'all try to tune the live instruments to the Omnichord? Is that a live piano? Maybe that is the issue because that's not something that'd be easy to tune to the Omnichord. The solo sounds in tune with the Omnichord though. Anyway. This is a cool song, in terms of the chords, melodies, lyrics, vocals. and overall vibe.

Yeah Omni can be tuned, there's a little knob inside a recessed housing on the underside of the case, but it generally doesn't go out of tune by itself unless someone fiddles with it. Also because when you strum it plays all the notes of the chord, it's kind of hard to tune to a regular tuner (though I can use the melody mode to play a single note and use that for tuning purposes). But we did play a live piano on this track which wasn't entirely in tune on all the notes. We tried to avoid the bad ones, but might not have been entirely successful. Thanks for the review!