The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Someone might have posted this already, but I just found this and pissed myself laughing.

The transcript for Tom's inteview by Matt Lauer about his views on psychiatry and drugs...

Please note the veritable deluge of proof and research he offers up...

what a complete dumbass.

http://www.disasterplanet.blogspot.com

THC,

I sincerely hope your interest in that story isn't due to personal experience. It's not something I would wish on anybody.

My wife and I would like to have a long and mindlessly violent chat with Mr Cruise on the subject of post-natal depression one day when he's got the time.

Hey Caravan Ray!

I'm indeed fortunate to be able to say, "no". There hasn't been any post-natal depression here, but I have definitely seen it in action with friends and was a bit anxious about it as we got closer to our daughter's birth. Like you, I would not wish that on anyone at all. I'd guess that you have some experience with it, though...I can understand your wanting to "discuss" it with him further.

TC has just shown himself to be a complete idiot in this interview, with his dismissive remarks about a science that he obviously knows very little about (note the piles of evidence offered up, and my favourite, that he's read the history of psychiatry, but elects not to inform us of what he discovered).

And I haven't even started on the Church of Scientology yet.....

Look, you guys don't know the history of SongFight...okay? I do.

I tried reading this transcript but I found the editorial interjections very distracting. Maybe I'll go through and pull them out, unless someone has a better transcript handy. I trust Tom Cruise is making a fool of himsef sufficiently enough without any help.
That said, it's probably worth noting that some drugs/medications merely suppress the problems we believe them to be treating. This by itself is obviously not very productive. Sort of like prescribing alcohol, I guess. But even a drug that temporarily suppresses the condition is valuable in that it can put a person in better position to get well through other accompanying methods. I suspect Tom does not subscribe to this point of view.

jimtyrrell wrote: That said, it's probably worth noting that some drugs/medications merely suppress the problems we believe them to be treating. This by itself is obviously not very productive.

What you describe there is poor diagnosis. You can't fault the drugs in that instance - when properly precsribed they do their job.

Caravan Ray wrote:My wife and I would like to have a long and mindlessly violent chat with Mr Cruise on the subject of <b>post-natal depression</b> one day when he's got the time.

The other day I accidentally said, "post-mortem depression" in place of "post-partem depression." It was amusing, and it connected back to the whole idea of necrolepsy.

I'm against prescribing drugs for mental, social, whatever conditions. Unless the patiant specificly wants it. In no situation should any doctor be telling a patiant that their brain isn't functioning normally. Who's to say any of our brains are functioning normally. That said if anyone wants to change the way their brain works, more power to them. We should all have the basic right to determine how we want our brain running, and if you want to "normalize" your brain with anti-depressants go for it, if you dont thats cool. If you want to fuck yourself up with spray paint and painkillers, the same is true. It just needs to be your choice, not some doctor telling you that your brain has a chemical inbalance and needs to be fixed, and definatly not some cop telling you that you can't be popping pills.

NeilThrun wrote:Who's to say any of our brains are functioning normally?

A doctor, maybe?

Puce wrote:

NeilThrun wrote:Who's to say any of our brains are functioning normally?

A doctor, maybe?

Puce wrote:

NeilThrun wrote:Who's to say any of our brains are functioning normally?

A doctor, maybe?

Ive been holding off on replying to this. Heres how I'm going to make my case. If I've learned anything from living, its this. There is no answer, divine truth, or simple equation that puts everything in its place. Nothing is intentional. Things just are. A brain is a brain. A functioning brain is a tricky thing. Functional is different to everyone.

NeilThrun wrote:

Puce wrote:

NeilThrun wrote:Who's to say any of our brains are functioning normally?

A doctor, maybe?

Ive been holding off on replying to this. Heres how I'm going to make my case. If I've learned anything from living, its this. There is no answer, divine truth, or simple equation that puts everything in its place. Nothing is intentional. Things just are. A brain is a brain. A functioning brain is a tricky thing. Functional is different to everyone.

Hey bro..I tend to lean your way. You are right in the way that you are not wrong. Drugs aren't always the answer and I too feel that doctors are way too ready to just pass them out. Believe me..I was telling my doctor some symptoms I was having and she INTERUPTED me and offered me xanex. I was...uh...no...I used to do those recreationally and I don't want to do them NOW. Essentially she was prescribing me a drug that I had already QUIT!

Anyways... as drugs may not be good for you or me..or a million other people...AND perhaps treatment drugs are in their infancy...there is still a purpose and place for them. They DO help people and in time perhaps we won't be cutting off limbs to solve our problems as we did in the past when we didn't know any better and did the best we could with the technology that we had/have at hand.

Trust me...I have seen drugs work on people...people who needed them desperately. I won't vouch for perfection..but they do help some folks.

Hoblit wrote:

NeilThrun wrote:

Puce wrote: A doctor, maybe?

Ive been holding off on replying to this. Heres how I'm going to make my case. If I've learned anything from living, its this. There is no answer, divine truth, or simple equation that puts everything in its place. Nothing is intentional. Things just are. A brain is a brain. A functioning brain is a tricky thing. Functional is different to everyone.

Hey bro..I tend to lean your way. You are right in the way that you are not wrong. Drugs aren't always the answer and I too feel that doctors are way too ready to just pass them out. Believe me..I was telling my doctor some symptoms I was having and she INTERUPTED me and offered me xanex. I was...uh...no...I used to do those recreationally and I don't want to do them NOW. Essentially she was prescribing me a drug that I had already QUIT!

Anyways... as drugs may not be good for you or me..or a million other people...AND perhaps treatment drugs are in their infancy...there is still a purpose and place for them. They DO help people and in time perhaps we won't be cutting off limbs to solve our problems as we did in the past when we didn't know any better and did the best we could with the technology that we had/have at hand.

Trust me...I have seen drugs work on people...people who needed them desperately. I won't vouch for perfection..but they do help some folks.

True. But drugs should only be used if the patient actively wants to change something. Not because the feel inferior after listening to a doctor tell them they need a drug to make them normal.
But then again should we give drugs to people who want them? Perhaps that is also a sign they shouldn't have it.

Ive been holding off of this topic too,
But the way I see it is much like Hoblit says..Drugs can be good if used properly and with proper diagnosis etc. ..... But I must say the big problem is when the state starts enforcing medication on people that either dont want, nor maybe need. I offer up th mass over-prescription of Ritalin to kids..I mean c'mon to kids...or at least to their parents who then enforce it on the children....(wont somebody think of the children...heheh)
But also this happens to adults..A good friend of mine was sectioned by the state a number of years ago, yes he had problems.. They then put him into a secure hospital where they fed him christ knows what for 6 months....after he came out of the hospital he was different . They had totally killed the person he was and turned him into a dependant zombie....Like I say he did have a few problems, but nothing a little time and understanding wouldnt have cured, he wasnt violent or nothing.... But a changed man to this day. He also didnt want to be locked up and drugged 24/7, but they took him regardless. I lost a very dear friend.

I guess what im trying to say is I agree with Neil and Hoblit
and drugs can be great or can be terrible---its all in the application


Messiah

all i know is that my psychology major roommate hates tom cruise.

Who is Tom Cruise to define what is or is not a DRUG anyway?

Not all drugs are created equal.

And drug use in moderation can make for an entertaining afternoon pondering the meaning of a bowl full of jello. Who hasn't profited from such an experience anyway?

The debate of course, is not about legality, or even morality, but effectiveness. Is it illegal to take PARTICULAR drugs? Yes... it is. That's just the way it is. Is it immoral or unethical? Well, that depends on your personal, individual belief system. Is it effective? That depends on teh nature of the illness or need, the ratio of benefit to side effect and NOT YOUR RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION. Maybe you don't want to take something because your moral code is defined by a belief in a system or higher power, that still doesn't change the effectiveness in a particular situation.


Furthermore... how the hell did they ever get that van to work in his last movie? I loved the movie, but give me a fuckin break. You still need a battery to get the engine to start BEFORE the alternator has any effect what so ever... I didn't see anyone crankin that engine over... HOW DID IT START????? Yep. he's as full of shit as his movies. I bet he goes into politics...

NeilThrun wrote:

Puce wrote:

NeilThrun wrote:Who's to say any of our brains are functioning normally?

A doctor, maybe?

There is no answer, divine truth, or simple equation that puts everything in its place. Nothing is intentional. Things just are. A brain is a brain. A functioning brain is a tricky thing. Functional is different to everyone.

My sarcasm has been met with surprising eloquence. Agreed; further, I'd argue that there is no objective morality, and that people should be allowed to do what ever they want to their own bodies / brains.

But that doesn't change the fact that the person most qualified to tell you about the functionality of a brain is some type of doctor.

TheHipCola wrote:http://www.disasterplanet.blogspot.com

My only problem with this version is that it has someone else's opinions written in brackets which completely taint any unbiased review of the interview.

Here's another version without the bracketed commentary. Plus it has a picture for the extra laughs...

Here's a link to MSN with video, too

But honestly, don't we all have these opinions? If I love snorting ritalin, does that make it a street drug? I swear I operate at twice the speed and with twice the precision. Give me more!!!! More ritalin!

Puce wrote:I'd argue that there is no objective morality, and that people should be allowed to do what ever they want to their own bodies / brains.

Amen! Hell yeah. I should NOT need a prescription for Ritalin.

NeilThrun wrote:I'm against prescribing drugs for mental, social, whatever conditions. Unless the patiant specificly wants it. In no situation should any doctor be telling a patiant that their brain isn't functioning normally. Who's to say any of our brains are functioning normally. That said if anyone wants to change the way their brain works, more power to them. We should all have the basic right to determine how we want our brain running, and if you want to "normalize" your brain with anti-depressants go for it, if you dont thats cool. If you want to fuck yourself up with spray paint and painkillers, the same is true. It just needs to be your choice, not some doctor telling you that your brain has a chemical inbalance and needs to be fixed, and definatly not some cop telling you that you can't be popping pills.

The right of a patient wih a mental illness to not take drugs prescribed to them is one thing - so long as that patient has also considered the rights of their friends and family and colleagues - all whose lives may become quite fucked up by having to deal with somebody with a treatable mental illness who refuses to take the medication which will manage it.

What's so wrong about a psychiatrist telling someone their brain isn't functioning correctly? Do you have a problem with an endocrinologist telling someone their pancreas isn't functioning correctly, and prescribing them insulin to manage the condition? Don't get carried away with the brain - it's just another big organ that needs certain chemicals to function.

And speaking of functioning big organs....

boltoph wrote:

TheHipCola wrote:http://www.disasterplanet.blogspot.com

My only problem with this version is that it has someone else's opinions written in brackets which completely taint any unbiased review of the interview.

2nd view that had issue with the dudes commentary...

That's his whole thing...he's all about the commentary... fwiw, I had no issue whatsoever reading the interview with his comments...they were easy to find..inside brackets. And as such, easy to keep seperate. I thought it was kind of funny...(his commentary, that is..) but, just because it was there, didn't mean I was tainted by it. How is anyones view of the interview tainted by someone else's comments? That's like being tainted by a movie critic...

sorry I posted that as the original link..it was the only I knew about...thanks to Boltoph for finding the unmolested transcript! It ain't no thang, but I was interested in the apparent need for unadulterated material in this thread.

Which has mutated nicely...how about a nice big discussion on the merits of the church of Scientology?

TheHipCola wrote:How is anyones view of the interview tainted by someone else's comments? That's like being tainted by a movie critic...

It's like a movie critic coming in the middle of the movie, pausing the playback, and making snarky comments while you wait for him to restart it again.
-bill

whoops..sorry, I wasn't meaning to come off as "snarky"...

i'll go get some popcorn then....