The Song Fight Bulletin Board

At playing, that is.

I was sitting in the store about a week ago, talking to my coworker, who is an amazing guitarist. Jazz-trained, all that. He was flying about on the fingerboard, and I was like "show me how to be badass at guitar," jokingly, more than anything. But he stopped, looked at me seriously, and said 'practice with a metronome.'

He then demonstrated how it worked. He grabbed a metronome, and played a scale ultra slow with the metronome. It sounded boring, and I imagine it was boring to play. Then he said 'do that over and over, and each time, bump the tempo up by one click.' He skipped the metronome to light speed, and proceeded to play the scale and bump the metronome, and within minutes he was at ludicrous speed. By this time, the same scale sounded ultra badass, and he looked like he was having fun playing it.

None of this was new to me. My piano teacher assigned this exact exercise to me for the two years I took lessons. I just never cared to do it. Also, it was never demonstrated to me in a way that made me find it useful.

I still haven't tried this exercise with guitar, because I've been trying to focus my energy on piano. I got home that night, and tried to run through a two-octave c major scale as fast as I could with both hands, just to see where I was. I couldn't get it steady past 140bpm eighth notes. Then I set the metronome (fruity loops) back to 80, and started the exercise. Within 15 minutes, I was running through 180bpm.

In the past week, I've tried to put in at least 10 minutes of this kind of practice every day. As of this evening, I'm at 220bpm eighth notes.

I'm finding now that I'm starting to get the scale into muscle memory, which will really help me fly on it. Also, I've found that this focused practice has helped in my normal playing. I can solo better, and improvise more on my feet, because I'm thinking less of where to put my fingers, but what I want to hear out of them.

So, 11 more major scales, then minors, modes, chromatic, whole-tone, etc. and I'm done.

Right?

<b>ADMIN MODIFIED THREAD TITLE FOR INCREASED DESCRIPTIVENESS</b>

This is how to get faster at playing, not better.

More notes psi and better are not synonomous.

Jeez.

This is why you start at slow speeds. That ensures you play steadily, and are actually hitting all the notes correctly. If you can play something equally well at slow and fast speeds, you're getting better.

I think your statement is quite silly, and that you missed my entire point, perhaps on purpose.

He's not missing your point, he's disagreeing with it.

What Erik said.

The Sober Irishman wrote:. If you can play something equally well at slow and fast speeds, you're getting better.

No, you're getting more proficient.

C.



Faster IS better. It may not be more desireable, It may not turn you on, but from a musical standpoint, it' s BETTER to be able to execute something at any tempo proficiently than not. If you are playing a piece with a tempo of 220, you need those skills. This does not make the MUSIC that individual is performing NECCESSARILY better, but it certainly makes a more skilled, and thus better musician.

Really. It's a matter of where the starting point of the end result of better started, and what the comparision is that allows for the statement of "better".
Is it better than Ice cream? Is it better than Alica Klass? Is it better than melted butter on spuds? Who knows... that's a rather opinionated perspective and personal. But!! Is it better to be able (ABLE) to execute musical ideas quickly or not? The answer is yes. You are a better player if you can execute the idea quickly.

Now, if you want to express your musical ideas, and you don't use speed to do so, fine. If you don't want to practice to achieve that result, fine.
It does not make a lick of difference though. The player who can execute quicker is still better, in that regard.

C.


C.

Leaf wrote:The player who can execute quicker is still better, in that regard.

C.

No they are more proficient.

Some of the confusion comes from the thread title, which seems to imply that this method alone is how you get better. It is but one exercise (a very good and important one) and should compliment a core set of exercises that help build proficiency, fluency, stamina and strength.

It's also a great way to warm up - just for a few minutes, even - before rocking out.

Suggestions to vary the scale exercises:
- play all scales in each position of the neck
- play each one across all positions of the neck (start as close to low E on the sixth string, end as high as you can on the first string). A good guide for this is the Segovia scale book (a rare roymond tip to Segovia technique). Especially the minor scales, which are different ascending than they are descending.
- play octaves (yes, two fingers at a time on the left hand. This is a TOTAL bitch but is tremendous for developing dexterity. Start slow and don't do this for long periods of time until you build lots of strength. You will develop cramps, tendonitis, etc.)
- alternate, skipped steps of the scale (do-mi-re-fa-mi-sol-fa-la-sol-ti-la-do-ti-re-do). Do it backwards, too.

Make up your own variations.

Always play in as relaxed a manner as possible. This should be challenging, but not necessarily physically strenuous. When your hand tightens up, pause...shake it out gently...relax...continue.

Start slow and confident. Speed up in small increments.

j$ wrote:

Leaf wrote:The player who can execute quicker is still better, in that regard.

C.

No they are more proficient.

Leaf already called C.

roymond wrote:Always play in as relaxed a manner as possible.

Ya, good advice Roymond. I think it's near universal: Almost anything you want to learn, from guitar to golf to German, will come easier if you stay relaxed. Just sayin'.

deshead wrote:

j$ wrote:

Leaf wrote:The player who can execute quicker is still better, in that regard.

C.

No they are more proficient.

Leaf already called C.

Misuse of language can't always be dismissed as mere semantics. But carry on, regardless.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=better


Check out #7.

Now think of me.

I do think that proficient is a better word in this case. SOBER!!! CHANGE YOUR THREAD TITLE MAN!!!

Future Boy does a mean I Want To Get Better.

DO NOT ARGUE FUCKING SEMANTICS IN THE HELP AND HOW TO FORUM.

For the record, pithy, one-sentence statements that you KNOW a person is going to either misconstrue or not take the time to puzzle out indicate that you're just either being a bitch or have had a frustrating day and are spoiling for a fight. That's the way I see it, and if that pisses you off, click PM and tell me so.

Please do not pollute the Help and How to forum with such malarkey. If you feel compelled to disagree in such a manner, feel free to either a) send a PM with your argument to the person in question or b) compose a complete and full response that doesn't beg for a freaking fight.

The meaningless argument posts will be stripped when I get a spare minute. And this here post will also be removed in a while after I think everyone has had a chance to see it and PM me a nastygram for my heavy-handed fascism.

JB

Re: playing to a metronome

Whenever I play to a metronome, regardless of speed, I feel my playing is boxy as hell and boring: there's no swing at all (or whatever the proper term is) and I feel it's like playing with the world's worst drummer. What can I do to make better use of the technique of practicing slowly, then practicing faster?

erikb wrote:Re: playing to a metronome

Whenever I play to a metronome, regardless of speed, I feel my playing is boxy as hell and boring: there's no swing at all (or whatever the proper term is) and I feel it's like playing with the world's worst drummer. What can I do to make better use of the technique of practicing slowly, then practicing faster?

Velocity exercises (which inevitably involve a metronome) give you the chops to play faster passages comfortably. This comfort level will let you then add artistic decisions on top-- you won't be just struggling to keep up because the tempo is too fast.

So don't worry about sounding wooden when playing along with the metronome, because musicality isn't the point. And after you can play faster, you can begin to attack the question of whether you should, because then it becomes a conscious decision rather than a moot point. "It has to go this fast, because I can't play any faster." vs "It has to go this fast because it's right for the music."

JB

I think it takes time to get comfortable with a metronome.

At first it seems unsteady but eventually, there is a zen moment where you sync up with it and it becomes a friend. Then you can swing on top of it and it acts as an anchor.

Wow, that is abstract.

Ken

Yeah, playing with a metronome is weird. I'm like "man, this metronome isn't steady at all! It keeps speeding up and slowing down!"

You guys have it pinned there in those last posts. You can swing on top of it if you treat is as a guide, not as the lead instrument that you're following. Just takes getting used to it, I think.

Of note: If you're a drummer, it's really good practice to practice with a click, but when it comes time to record in the studio or play live, you are probably better to abandon that click during the session -- you are the click when it comes time to record the song and play it with the band. Our old drummer in the Pincushions swore by this method, and his tempo is as solid as a rock.

...most studio engineers will tell you that a drummer's own natural push / pull of tempo is much better than the drummer pushing / pulling, in attempt to follow a click.

I agree, although I always record to a click when i do songfight.

You can still push and pull the beat with a metronome. You can play behind the beat, on the beat, or in front of the beat. Each has a different feel.

I think the more you use a click, the more it becomes another band member, the one with the steady tempo.

Ken

If a "metronome" isn't your cup of tea, open up fruity loops, lay a simple 4/4 beat down, and use that. Serves the same purpose, but you don't feel as silly playing with it. And that way, you can addd swing if you want.

jb wrote:DO NOT ARGUE FUCKING SEMANTICS IN THE HELP AND HOW TO FORUM.

For the record, pithy, one-sentence statements that you KNOW a person is going to either misconstrue or not take the time to puzzle out indicate that you're just either being a bitch or have had a frustrating day and are spoiling for a fight. That's the way I see it, and if that pisses you off, click PM and tell me so.

Please do not pollute the Help and How to forum with such malarkey. If you feel compelled to disagree in such a manner, feel free to either a) send a PM with your argument to the person in question or b) compose a complete and full response that doesn't beg for a freaking fight.

The meaningless argument posts will be stripped when I get a spare minute. And this here post will also be removed in a while after I think everyone has had a chance to see it and PM me a nastygram for my heavy-handed fascism.

JB

C'mon JB...I do believe that this is SongFight! not SongLove!

heheheeh

The Sober Irishman wrote:If a "metronome" isn't your cup of tea, open up fruity loops, lay a simple 4/4 beat down, and use that. Serves the same purpose, but you don't feel as silly playing with it. And that way, you can addd swing if you want.

See also: drum machine. There's gotta be a 4/6/8/12/16 beat pattern you can groove on.

Sometimes you've just gotta step away from the computer. /heresy

Whoops, UPS God just delivered my birthday cabasa. Outta here!