The Song Fight Bulletin Board

A full transcript (albeit, a rush job with minor errors) here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... cf.01.html

Basically, Stewart's position was that shows such as Crossfire were hurting America by pandering to the political system instead of having true debate. The hosts were Paul Begala (Democrat) and Tucker Carlson (Republican, asshole); both evaded Stewart's questions and issues. At one point, they cut Jon off as he was making a point to try to bring up a comedic moment in his new book. When Jon wouldn't allow them to change the subject, they went to commercial, with Jon literally pleading them to stop. It says something powerful about the state of the media when a "debate" show from a supposedly reputable news source has to evade legitimate questions from the host of a comedy program.

Anyway. I thought it was really interesting to watch/read, and I'd be curious to hear some of your thoughts on the show or transcript, or on the subject in general.

Edit: I am told a (33mb) .mov file of the episode can be found here when the site isn't down due to bandwidth issues: http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wo ... tewart.mov

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yeah, ultimately Crossfire meanders as much as the politicians do.[/url]

Well, at least I wasn't the only one to notice:

http://www.mtv.com/chooseorlose/headlin ... id=1492305

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Oct15.html

Wow. Jon Stewart is my fucking hero.

Craig Kilborn certainly wouldn't have stood up like that.

I hate Craig Kilborn.

(I have no MeFi account so I can't respond there.)

Some people on the MeFi thread complain that Stewart cops out by using the "but we're FAKE" line all the time. I can see their point, but I disagree.

The people they are criticizing, like Crossfire, should not be allowed to have the crutch of "well you're doing A so who are you to criticize us for doing B?"

These shows, and these pundits, should not be held up to any other example of someone who is doing things right. They should be held accountable in light of their supposed "ethics" as "journalists". That's the only measure they're supposed to live up to.

So when Carlson tries to deflate Stewart's criticism by pointing out how lame the Kerry interview was (and Stewart admitted its mediocrity in an article Entertainment Weekly), it's vital that he not be allowed to deflect focus from Crossfire's failings. That's why it's important that Stewart continue to say things like "If you want to compare yourself to a comedy show, go ahead". It's not ABOUT the Daily Show. It's about Crossfire and how it sucks.

They're not allowed to use relativism to dismiss criticism of their odious duplicity to the American people.

jb wrote:They're not allowed to use relativism to dismiss criticism of their odious duplicity to the American people.

Can they at least use a stream of obtuse words?

The Sober Irishman wrote:Wow. Jon Stewart is my fucking hero.

Me too. Well, after Steve Irwin, of course.

The Sober Irishman wrote:

jb wrote:They're not allowed to use relativism to dismiss criticism of their odious duplicity to the American people.

Can they at least use a stream of obtuse words?

dictionary.com

What's the issue here? I always thought Crossfire WAS a comedy show. I mean, look at Tucker and his red bow tie. Give me a break. Jon is just better at it.

The Sober Irishman wrote: Can they at least use a stream of obtuse words?

"obtuse" isn't the most opaque of terms, either.

anyway, yeah, jb, I agree. I dunno, the thing with shows like Crossfire or O'Reilly Factor or Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Hannity and Colmes or any of them, is that they dedicate, you know, five minutes, or ten minutes tops, to each contrary guest, and it's just worthless, the interviews. Half of it is crosstalk, or the one side branding the other a liar, or whatever. I wish that the moderators in the debates would've interrupted the candidates and told them to answer the Godamn question (Bush's three mistakes, Bush on abortion, nothing comes to mind re Kerry but I'm sure he had mistakes too).

With Rush, you're never going to win versus him if you call up his show. With Bill O'Reilly, you can give a perfectly reasonable and justified position, but at best you're not going to change his mind, and at worst he'll tell you to shut up or just cut your mic.

If you only read the transcript, it comes off like Stewart is not deadly serious about everything he says. Because you can almost imagine him making a silly voice or a raise of the eyebrow or something. But then you watch it, and it's funny at first, but then you kind of realize "man, he's both serious and right". The audience starts by laughing, and then just chuckling, and then applauding. Sweet.

Man, I just saw that, and Stewart totally ass-raped those guys on air. And all they did was confirm how right he was by blatantly trying to cut him off and ignore his intelligent points by making attempts at jokes. Way to tear 'em a new one, Jon Stewart.

After watching this I have a new respect for Jon Stewart. I've always enjoyed his show when I happened to come across it, but never realized what an intelligent person he is. I always just brushed him off as "another comedian". I loved what he did on CNN and I am most likely going to purchase his book after seeing that. Way to go Jon!

c hack wrote:

The Sober Irishman wrote:Wow. Jon Stewart is my fucking hero.

Me too. Well, after Steve Irwin, of course.

Crikey!

Slate did a thing on this, but I think the good quote from it is this:

A while back, I called Jon Stewart the "court jester" of this election. But he may be more like the fool in King Lear, speaking brutal truth to a king who is already too far gone to hear it. Sure, Stewart's job is to make us laugh, not to lecture us. But as Lear's fool asked, "May not an ass know when the cart draws the horse?"

Today's Crossfire had a very brief segment about the controversy surrounding the episode. They showed two letters; the first insulted Stewart for being an overrated comedian, while the second praised the show for letting him speak freely. (Was he watching the same show I was?) Robert Novak then stated he thinks Stewart isn't funny at all, and that he makes such statements because he is uninformed. That was pretty much it.

An article, with a response to the show from Tucker Carlson:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... vs_stewart

this smug, bow tie wearing fool exemplifies perfectly everything wrong with the republican party. what an ass wipe that guy came off as. the democrat at least kept his mouth shut for the most part , let stewart speak his piece fairly uninterrupted, and was far more civil than that man-boy in the bow tie.

and then he tries trading comic quips with jon stewart? he deserved everything he got, including the dick remark. i especially loved the "i'm not your monkey" line. that should be the dems rally cry from here on out!

"hey george...i'm not your monkey!"

amen to that, mr. shite!

(Video) - A compilation of clips from the Daily Show after his appearance (the times Jon Stewart refers to the Crossfire episode):

http://www.looptvandfilm.com/blog/dailycross.mov

mkilly wrote:

The Sober Irishman wrote: Can they at least use a stream of obtuse words?

"obtuse" isn't the most opaque of terms, either.

I frequently like to point out that use of the word "pedantic" is in itself, pedantic. (Maybe that's why I have few real friends.)

(Pardon the double post)

I think it's sad that when I think of the national "heroes" of the liberals, the three people that immediately come to mind are Michael Moore, Al Franken and Jon Stewart. All comedians, who can be so easily brushed off by their conservative foes with a "he's not funny" or "he's just trying to be funny"

Do all heroes of the liberal culture have to be entertainers? Why can't we have any unfunny, unentertaining, liberal heroes?