The Song Fight Bulletin Board

To do all of my recordings right now, I use a SoundBlaster Audigy soundcard with a nice little front plate for easy mic hook-up, etc. This has always worked well for me, but I found when recording some drums the other day, even though I can run all eight mics into my computer via a mixer, I can't get them on seperate tracks for secluded mixing/editing. I have been reading into FireWire set-ups and it seems to be what I need (multiple line-ins recording at the same time to seperate tracks) but I don't want to blow $500 to find that's now how it works. So:

1. FireWire: Does it route each input to a new track and if so, what do I need to do this?
2. I'm looking to spend at most, $500. I only NEED 4 inputs but more is perferable.

Can you guys help me out?

Thanks,
Jeff

If you've been reading elsewhere, you'll see I've been spewing forth many praises for the Line 6 TonePort. This is a USB device (not firewire) that records directly to your PC. It comes packaged with a demo version of some recording software as well (it actually has all features but is crippled to only 4 tracks). The device has two mic (three prong) inputs, two quarter inch instrument inputs, two footswitch inputs, and several other inputs I haven't figured out yet. The recording software that comes with it will record at least two tracks simultaneously (i learned to do it today). I'm not sure it won't do more, but there's only one of me so I haven't had cause to try.

The firewire cable will send a data stream from your "box" to your computer. This data stream contains all of your tracks, separately. They are then fed to each track in your audio software. Depending on your software, this will probably happen without your having to set up jack shit. It mostly just works. It's only after you start trying to be fancy that shit gets fucked up.

Bascially it works like you hope it works, and you can for sure get a firewire recording interface (the "box") for $500. Go to m-audio.com or presonus.com.

does your mixer have outputs on each channel? whether or not you want to use your mixer for adding live tracks will have some impact on what you buy.

if you can use the external preamps, this sucker:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=241880

has 2 built in pres and and then 6 balanced line ins for $550.

if you just want 8 preamps in a single unit w/firewire, this thing:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=184131

is your man for $600.

USB is enough to record 4 distinct tracks at a time. You can find a used M-Audio Quattro for $100 or less that would let you record 4 tracks at the same time. I have one, which I use with a Mackie mixer. It's a cheap, basic setup that's relatively OK.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't see the "more is preferable" bit. Nevermind! If you want more than 4-in it seems like that involves moving up a price bracket...

This new Alesis mixer/firewire interface

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=630153

looks cool. I haven't been a huge fan of their mixers in the past, but the bang for buck factor seems pretty high with these. They are 24bit, have 4 or more mic pres, and include Cubase LE. the 12 channel one is $450, 8 channels for $300.

So, does that Alesis one have seperate outs for each track, too? Because, if so, I'm sold. Not only could I use that in the studio but that'd be amazing for band practice.

yep... according to musiciansfriend.com:

"...Each input channel on the mixer (plus the stereo mix) is sent into your computer and a stereo output is received from the computer for monitoring...."

Those seemed kinda cheap to me when I had my hands on 'em, but if they work they work, I guess.

Get a Firepod.

Kweep wrote:yep... according to musiciansfriend.com:

"...Each input channel on the mixer (plus the stereo mix) is sent into your computer and a stereo output is received from the computer for monitoring...."

i think he means analog outs.

Well, whatever makes it so something like this happens:

Mixer:
Channel 1 = Mic
Channel 2 = Guitar
Channel 3 = Bass
Channel 4 = Keys

Computer (recording):
Track 1 = Channel 1/Mic
Track 2 = Channel 2/Guitar
Track 3 = Channel 3/Bass
Track 4 = Channel 4/Keys

oh, in that case, it does what you want.

but.. buy a firepod.

Why go with an external box. Why not just change the audigy for somthing with more beef.

Why not get somthing like an M-audio 1010LT or Delta 66
these are great sounding cards

or theres the more exotic Scope Home system from Creamware that has a variety of output options

These are just some of the many out there, but whatever you decide on, I always recomend wating E-Bay for a little while too. Its amazing for bargains sometimes

The M-Audio Delta stuff is nice, but you still need preamps. If your mixer doesn't have inserts on each channel, you can't take advantge of the four inputs. Buying an all-in-one box is a good option in that case, and the preamps are probably nicer than what you already have.

Having said that, what kind of mixer do you have?

Ken

The Sober Irishman wrote:Those seemed kinda cheap to me when I had my hands on 'em...

yeah, main reason i haven't liked alesis mixers in the past... but cost/features on this new one seems pretty good.

the mackie onyx 400f looks ok, too:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180311

i haven't had any experience with the firepod personally (i worked at a guitar center when they first came out and saw a bunch of 'em returned, but first run stuff is always like that).

Me$$iah wrote:Why go with an external box.

Because they're better.

ken wrote:The M-Audio Delta stuff is nice, but you still need preamps. If your mixer doesn't have inserts on each channel, you can't take advantge of the four inputs. Buying an all-in-one box is a good option in that case, and the preamps are probably nicer than what you already have.

Having said that, what kind of mixer do you have?

Ken

I just have a mediocre Behringer for the moment. 8 channel. It gets me by.

The Alesis mixer looks really good, I like that it is a mixer and a recording device, but it only has 4 stereo tracks. Is recording via a mono channel a really bad idea? I mean, technically, you could just convert the track to stereo later in Pro Tools, essentially, wouldn't it be the same? Because if I lose functionality when recording to mono, then I want stereo tracks.

And response to the Firepod suggestion, it looks good, but people say the pre-amps on channels 3-8 are shaky and that is has a lot of driver problems. What do you guys think?

All 8 preamps are crystal in my experience. And it's got your 8 outputs to go to an external mixer.

As for drivers, I've had no trouble at all on my current setup. Still runs with the original shipping drivers.

On my old setup, I did have some problems, but Presonus tech support is the FUCKING SHIZ. During business hours, you can get a native english speaker on the phone who knows his shit, and he'll get a new driver in your inbox while you're on the fucking phone if you need it.

The last time I emailed them with a pretty simple problem, the guy responded within hours with seven solutions to my problem, along with the latest unreleased drivers just for fun.

Get the Firepod. If you don't like it, you can punch me in the face, and I'll buy it from you.

As most folks know I use the Yamaha 01X which is an awesome "Firewire" mLAN interface/Digital mixer with DSP effects. Got a mailing today from Yamaha announcing these two USB alternative. Interestingly I read a discussion that the reason Yam went with USB for these was cost and greater potential market plus an alternative for those who just think firewire is not going anywhere.

Yamaha MW10/MW12

Apparently the 10 ch one retails around $199 and the 12 channel $299. Could see those prices discount down over coming months.

Look very interesting and certainly much cheaper (and probably simpler) than the 01X. I was thinking of getting another consolidating mixer so I can leave more gear connected and I strongly suspect I may get one or other of these as my mixer and secondary (taking out) interface for my laptop.

Wow, $200 for four mic inputs? That is amazing. Can you use it as a stand along mixer as well for live gigs?

Just a reminder that the M-Audio Delta series is a PCI card and not firewire.

The Alesis mixer has four preamps, you could record 4 mono sources with it. Hopefully your recording software allows you to choose between stereo and mono tracks. You would just asign it 1/2 instead of 1 or 2.

Behringer mixers are pretty low quality, so you might consider something with preamps built in like the Firepod.

Ken

So it has come down to:

Yamaha MW12 vs FirePod

Yamaha MW12:
+Doubles as a mixer
+Has faders and knobs
+Very good price
+6 XLR ins
+Phantom power
-We can get more inputs
-Not a lot of info avaliable on product (testimonies, etc.)

FirePod:
+Widely regarded as the best
+Phanton power
+8 XLR ins
-Steep price, double that of the MW12
-Seeing as it is 10-channel, that must mean the first two inputs are stereo and the last 6 are mono, correct?
-No physical interface (knobs, faders, fun stuff)

So, yes, for $300 more, I can have what's called the best, but I'm really leaning towards the MW12 now. Thoughts? Thanks you guys, this thread has been eye opening.

There are quite plainly knobs visible on the front of the Firepod.

If you see '10 inputs' listed in reference to the Firepod, it's referring to the 8 mic/line inputs plus the SPDIF. That's it.

You get out of it what you put into it.