The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Wages wrote: <B>I just want to know how everyone has time to do an entire song...including each instrument....in a single week!</B> I can only guess yall are all either virtuosos OR you spend just about all your free time working on your tunes. How DO you techno people do it?

No genius here though I will start the conversation.

A couple things that will help create songs quickly.

<b>Automation</b>
Having trouble synching your drum loops? Use the quantize feature. Reason has a great drum pattern creator. Use effects like tempo shifts and delays to create happy accidents. Once you have a groove you like, it’s as easy as ctrl c + v.

The trick as you become more advanced is to vary things up by varying the volume of drum hits, or as you become a better programmer, backing off the quantize to keep a looser groove. Then you can add fills or varying hi hat or ride patterns to taste.

<b>Presets</b>
Once you set up a signal chain that works for you save it and use it over again next time. Don’t try to reinvent it every time. A lot of software packages come with vocal and instrument channel strip sets – compression, eq, reverb – that will work with some tweeking. If you come up with something you like be sure to save it as a preference.

I also have a template for mastering that consists of a multipressor, exciter, and limiter. Though far from optimal, I know I can bring a song up to SF spec in 15 minutes if I need to.

Of course the downside here is that you may become stuck in a production rut if you are using the same settings all the time. So choose one or two elements to focus on to keep pushing in new directions, knowing that you already have a formula down for the rest of the track.

<b>Know You Equipment</b>
This is kind of obvious but it deservers mention. I know the frequency response of my mics is 40 to 15,000 so anything above or below is noise. My acoustic guitar needs a scoop at 200 – 400. Knowing this going in means you take less time tinkering with it in production.

So see if this helps. These are some things that I have learned over the course of the last couple years. I am still learning as well. If some of our production geniuses would like to chime in, all the better.

Happy Songfighting.

They're only 3 minute songs (in my case anyway).

It really doesn't take that long. You can play 2 guitar tracks, a bass track, vocals and 4 tracks of backing vocals in the time it takes to boil 8 eggs.

Time isn't really a big isue ( I just don't know what I'm going to do with all these eggs)

I work quickly and keep things simple. I use a minimum of drum mics and don't sweat the placement. I know when to edit what I have and when to do another take. I took voice lessons for a year and a half so I can now sing a complete and usable vocal take in a few takes. I keep moving forward. I spend a lot of my free time playing music.

Ken

Freddielove wrote:

Wages wrote: <B>

<b>Know You Equipment</b>
This is kind of obvious but it deservers mention. I know the frequency response of my mics is 40 to 15,000 so anything above or below is noise. My acoustic guitar needs a scoop at 200 – 400. Knowing this going in means you take less time tinkering with it in production.


Happy Songfighting.

This is the big one for me. I finally figured out that if I just knew my hardware settings and my software capabilities...that I could work this stuff faster.

Garbage in Garbage out theory works to your advantage as well. It's nice to be able to edit out things in production. However, if it's not there in the first place...less time to have to mess with it.

Long story short. Optimize your recording situation from the ground level up. Spend one of the weeks figuring out your best possible set up and make it routine. Write it down..settings...channel settings... noise reduction levels...whatever, just get it down and make it so that you can repeat it every time you record and not make it such a time consumer.

Sing, sing alot..everywhere you go..shower... car...just sing alot. This will make you a better singer. Less takes in the longer run.

Hoblit makes a good point, but having nice gear helps. The less you have to work to make something sound good, the better.

Ken

I'm probably a bad example but counting the time it takes me to do the music, write words, and then perform...... 2-3 hours.

I haven't done any songfighting for a while, but it usually takes me around three days. So I'll be one of the ones that spends most of their free time doing it. Now when I say three days, I don't mean 72 actual hours of writing and production. It's something like first day writing, second day recording and third day mixing. Something like that.

I may take the title and try and hum a tune to go with it. If I'm out in town commuting then I keep humming it in my head or find a quiet spot and record a few bars into my phone. When I get home I may spend some time finding the chords and lyrics. I won't even go to the recording stage unless I think the song is finished or think that I have to get something in that week. 2-3 hours max, including the commuting humming time.

I have two schools either side of my flat so I have to time my recordings for when they are in their classes, or I go in the kitchen. I have some working practices that I use over and over again. I don't really experiment because I know that I won't get it done if I do. Or I have my experimental idea long before I start the song. My drums are usally off the same sample cd which I cut up in Recycle and import as a rex file. My bass nearly always has the same compressor settings which I have written down in a spreadsheet along with other settings I use for guitar and vocals. Mic positions are always the same. Guitar is always xy. Vocals are double tracked. Hopefully masking the inadequacies of my voice but you can usually tell that my double tracking isn't that good. A few backing vocals, a few synth layers, some riffs and I'm done. Same old formula over and over again. It's not great, but it works for me and I know where I am. This can take about half a day or more. If I don't have a full day off in the week, then I can't really do it. I'm slow.

I try not to mix on the same day, but often end up having to do that. I don't have any fave settnigs here and try and treat each song fresh. But I do have a process and I follow that process.

I can only just make it in a week and usually I can't. I do need a lot of free time even with a lot of working practices in place. I wish I could work faster because I would get a lot more done, but I can't. The deadline keeps me on my toes and I don't think I'd ever submit anything without it.

I hum and sing a hook that might be the start of the song. I sing into my phone to capture bass lines, vocal lines, rhythms, etc. I type lyrics into my phone as well (having a Trio phone helps). At home I record quick ideas into Audacity (its just real simple and spontaneous).

Once I get recording I put a rough cut on my phone or iPod and listen on the commute, etc., imagining the other parts and the mix. Then at some point I get back to finish it up and mix it down.

Sometimes this all happens in one night, sometimes it happens over the whole course of the week but generally with one or two nights of real recording/mixing. Ideally I start the afternoon the new title comes out, anticipating a week where I'll have at least some free time. As you can tell this doesn't happen too often anymore

one of the things i was pretty proud of about sonofsupercar was the variety of songs and recordings we managed to get done for songfight. we would typically spend 1-6 hours writing and practicing, anywhere from 4 to 10 (death plunge, for instance) hours recording, and then as much as another 6 or 10 hours mixing.

but we tried everything under the sun as far as recording goes. we did groups of songs where we would have roughly the same recording techniques, but after 3 or 4 weeks we'd usually get bored and massively reshuffle our instrumentation, mic placement, arrangements.. something. i use the hell out of nuendo's awesome templating system and mono / group / master track setting saving features. we ended up with maybe 3 different track presets for every instrument and probably 9 or 10 different starting templates.

but we also had the (i realize now) utter luxury of 8 hours a week of guranteed practice time, plus a dedicated space to record. it makes a huge difference. the idea was usually to write a good song, practice it till we could R it TFO, and then jam out a recording, but that rarely worked.

otoh, when i record solo songfights, they are usually completely written, at least for guitar, vocal melody, and maybe the basic bass idea, before i record them. then i always record a complete take on guitar and listen back to the parts to see what sucks or isn't working before i start doing real takes.

blue wrote:when i record solo songfights, they are usually completely written, at least for guitar, vocal melody, and maybe the basic bass idea, before i record them. then i always record a complete take on guitar and listen back to the parts to see what sucks or isn't working before i start doing real takes.

Using loop-based recording software has gotten me out of the habit of doing that, but it's a bit of advice I'd like to get back to. I feel like my song writing skills are not being put to full use because I'm more focused on recording.

well, take it with a grain of salt. my songs are pretty bad. i mean, they're usually exactly what i was going for, but still manage to border on unlistenable.

that loop-based stuff, the kids like it.

Have something to say. Recording quality matters less if you do.