The Song Fight Bulletin Board

So I've been getting a lot of comments about having a lack of passion in my vocals, and unoriginalilty in my guitaring. I know originality isn't really a technique, but how do you know if something sounds original or not? Does anyone have suggestions or techniques to improve boring vocals?

Are you bored when you're doing them? That's always a sign

Keep trying, and when you get reviews like that, pm the reviewer about it. Maybe ask for a band/title who's doing something like your song whom the reviewer thinks isn't boring/unexciting.

And listen to music. Lots of music.

the same thing was said a number of times about JJ&tGTB vocals. Theres singing lyrics, and then there's singing lyrics. How you are when you record singing seems to show through. If your disinterested, then the vocals come out a bit lacklustre. Recently I have adopted the j$ way of vocalising.

Alcohol + vocals = more interesting vocals.

I don't drink.

google, noob.

Boredom definitely could be a reason. I'll try and work on that.

jolly roger wrote:Does anyone have suggestions or techniques to improve boring vocals?

Some general things to try:
- Sing first thing in the morning.
- Double your vocal tracks.
- Learn your voice's breaking point, and write songs in a key that lets you hit lots of notes just below that point.
- Back off the mic and sing louder.
- Never use the first take of a vocal.
- Learn to recognize when you're singing flat. Try slapping an autotuner on the vocals, and watch (or listen) for when it has to work hard. Re-record those passages. (And remove the auto tuner when you're done )

For your stuff in particular:
- Use a compressor. Compress the shit out of everything you sing. Most of your tracks have passages where the vocals suddenly jump out, which draws attention to the quiet passages.
- Sing higher. You stick to a comfort zone in your middle register, but if you want your vocals to stand out, you'll need to stretch yourself a little.
- Back off the aggressiveness on your instruments. Music can sound "heavy" without being distorted and slammed. And since you don't have a rough voice, the contrast between your instruments and vocals furthers the impression that you're under-singing.

One last tip that may or may not be relevant: Neighbours come and go, but the songs you put on Songfight are forever. (Read: if you're holding back to appease the neighbours, you've got your priorities wrong.)

I think a good tip for more passionate vocals is to take the time to figure out who/what the song is about and who you are singing it to. Give your lyrics an emotional reading out loud. Pretend you are a slam poet or something and just read your lyrics out loud. Then when you sing your vocals imagine you are actually talking to someone, whether it is a plea to a lover, advice to a friend, or yelling at the president.

Uninspired vocals come from lack of understanding of your lyrics.

Ken

I would say write a lyric you believe in. But then I am quite often told that my vocals lack emotion, so go figure.

j$

Passion = making it hurt.

jute gyte wrote:Passion = making it hurt.

Coming from Jute, that is likely the most accurate thing ever said.

Also, good points, Des. As for neighbours (including your mom/wife/kids upstairs/in the other room), they're going to hear you singing anyway. So they might as well hear you singing with all the emotion/effort you can muster.

I can't imagine what Jute's neighbours think, but I'm pretty sure they don't think he's holding back.

deshead wrote: - Learn to recognize when you're singing flat. Try slapping an autotuner on the vocals, and watch (or listen) for when it has to work hard. Re-record those passages. (And remove the auto tuner when you're done )

Wow! That's a great idea and excellent suggestion! I’d always irrationally poo pooed the autotuner… but I'll have to check out the auto-tuner now.

My own generalist suggestion is going to sound contradictory, but it really isn't. Try to nail your track, but don't do TOOO many takes. If you're doing your 100th take of a vocal part, it's going to be hard to sound at all spontaneous or original. Don't strive for plastic perfection -- leave a little roughness around the edges -- imperfection gives character to a song.

(I'm guilty of snoozy vocals too -- but not so much when I play live...It's tricky to keep recorded stuff as energetic sounding, especially with minimalist arrangements.)

I hum the melody a lot, so I don't need to worry about hitting the right notes. Then I just sing as loud as possible, with as much "aARGH" as I can muster. Then I bring it down to whatever is the right emotion level, then just let rip. I think, corny as it may be, if you listen to a lot of emotional music(especially musicals, where the song has to convey a feeling) you get an idea. If it's sad, it's the slight vibrato. If it's angry, it's the slight shortness. Just learn these little things.

But then I dunno, I do like a few takes and can't be bothered to do others.

Bjam wrote:I think, corny as it may be, if you listen to a lot of emotional music(especially musicals, where the song has to convey a feeling)

Personally I find this is where NOT to look for Passion or Originality. Rather you'll find staged exageration and predictability. With rare exception.

But Bjam's on as far as humming, singing, practicing, knowing your parts before recording. The biggest challenge for me in these one week (one night?) projects is becoming familiar enough with the part to be convincing and passionate, while not leaning on familiar tricks or sentiment that prevent any originality from growing. I lay down the basic tracks, then work counter to these to develop interesting (at least to me) parts that make the arrangement unique.

Still working on my own version of passionate vocals. We may both be damned in this area, JR.

re: singing loud and at the top of your range

i have to disagree with what's been said here.

Suzanne Vega
Leonard Cohen
Stephen Merritt
Cat Power

passion and originality will pop out of your music if you simply have something to say. make it personal and something you give a shit about. even a goofy song should have a bit of something to it, whether a point you want to make or an observation about yourself and life. try to find one that hasn't been made before, or a twist on an old chestnut.

i mean, the guy from Bush sings loud. so, you know. there.

jb wrote:re: singing loud and at the top of your range

i have to disagree with what's been said here.

Suzanne Vega
Leonard Cohen
Stephen Merritt
Cat Power

passion and originality will pop out of your music if you simply have something to say. make it personal and something you give a shit about. even a goofy song should have a bit of something to it, whether a point you want to make or an observation about yourself and life. try to find one that hasn't been made before, or a twist on an old chestnut.

i mean, the guy from Bush sings loud. so, you know. there.

I have to disagree w/ your disagreeing

I think originality and passion are separate entities. I like all of the people you mentioned above, but particularly in the case of Stephen Merritt and Leonard Cohen, I don't know if I'd consider their singing passionate, even though they have loads of originality. In fact, IMO, Stephen Merritt has kind of made his reputation by sounding bored and dispassionate. Passionate vocals to me are ones that are sung OUT.

Jeff Buckley
Thom Yorke
Ray LaMontagne
Mariah Carey...(kidding)

[edit: forgot to lend advice] My advice is to make a playlist of songs by people that sound passionate to you. I did that when I was struggling with the same thing (and I'm not there yet). In case you're curious, here's my playlist
1. Jolene - Ray LaMontagne
2. I Was Meant For The Stage - The Decemberists
3. Hallelujah - Jeff Buckley
4. I Do - Jude
5. It'll Be A Breeze - The Long Winters
6. Freedom of the Road - Martin Sexton
7. Dizzy - Ours
8. Street Spirit - Radiohead
9. Hallelujah I love Her So - Ray Charles
10. Modern Nature - Sondre Lerche

my "google, noob" was sposed to be a jokey way of pointing out that passion isn't really something that can be taught. you can learn to improve on your execution, but most people either are passionate are aren't.

your songs don't really lend themselves to all that much passion anyways. your parts tend to be more static with small changes building up over time - it's not something you want to be all screaming over.

i think you worry too much about too many things. just write shit you like, change things you don't like so that you do like them, and tell everyone to STFU. you're never going to please everyone, or even most of the people here. tune your guitar, play things in time, and do enough takes that stuff doesn't sound like crap and you'll be aight.

listening to all your crap in the archive, you have a lot of tuning problems and your songs are all at 40 bpm, and mostly have reaaaally long, boring, repetitive, pointless guitar intros. if you write plodding music, people are going to tell you that you write plodding music. stop it with the arpeggios already.

If you don't consider Leonard Cohen's singing to be passionate, then you should go to a witch doctor and make sure you have a soul. Besides, the opposite of "boring" isn't "passionate", it's "interesting".

blue wrote:tune your guitar, play things in time, and do enough takes that stuff doesn't sound like crap and you'll be aight.

Dammit, why didn't you tell me all this last week.

erik wrote:the opposite of "boring" isn't "passionate", it's "interesting".

That would be why I included "dispassionate". And when's the last time you heard someone sound bored and passionate at the same time?

I've been called "passionately boring". I took it as a compliment. Must have been the arpegios.

Ummm, okay (also disokay), I don't understand (that is, I disunderstand) what you are saying. Leonard Cohen sounds bored and passionate. Stephen Malkmus sounds bored and passionate. Johnny Cash. Ian Curtis. Leon Redbone. Rik Ocasek.

I think that maybe the problem with dude's vocals is that they sound boring, not that they sound bored.