The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I need some help solving a big recording issue. I live in a tiny apartment with a lot of noise (fridge, air conditioners, whirring computers, yowling cat, etc). I record right in the middle of it...

I'm using a crappy Radioshack mic for vocals, which is so insensitive that it doesn't pick up much room noise. However, the tone is horrible; spiky levels and very muddy. I have to boost the audio, which invariably causes distortion, and equalizing the signal ony helps a little.

I've used the built-in condenser mic on my ibook with garageband, and the tone is much better, but captures all of the urban ambient noise. I'd like to avoid running the signal through a de-esser, as the computer resources take a big hit, and significantly degrades the sound as well.

I'm planning to get a better mic to get a crisper sound. Does anyone have any recommendations? A powered condenser would seem to be the choice, but I'm concerned about the room noise. Would a better dynamic mic provide a cleaner recording, or are they inherenty 'dull'?

Any ideas about isolation? I'm thinking about making something that I could just stick my head in with the mic. Sounds ridiculous, I know - but I don't know if there's a better way.

Thanks much!
Hans

HansGruber wrote:I'm planning to get a better mic to get a crisper sound. Does anyone have any recommendations? A powered condenser would seem to be the choice, but I'm concerned about the room noise. Would a better dynamic mic provide a cleaner recording, or are they inherenty 'dull'?

In general, they're duller, yes. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. If you don't have a lot of breath or air in your voice, a dynamic mic should capture everything you need. All mics respond differently to transients, too, so depending your style you might actually prefer the sound of a dynamic mic.

Something else to consider: Condenser mics need phantom power. If you don't have a pre-amp, things could get costly for ya.

HansGruber wrote:Any ideas about isolation? I'm thinking about making something that I could just stick my head in with the mic. Sounds ridiculous, I know

I don't think it sounds ridiculous.

If you can't isolate the noise sources in your environment, then isolating the sound source is your only option. There are a few ways to accomplish this:
- Physical isolation: build a booth, or a box, or what have you, and put the sound source and the mic inside. Alternately, you could use a closet. Or hang a thick blanket from the ceiling. I've hung blankets from mic stands to good effect.
- Separation: Move the mic as far away from noise sources as possible.
- Mic selection: Use a cardioid or hypercardioid mic which only picks up sound in one direction. Point it in the direction with the least noise.
- Gain staging: Turn the input down, and get closer to the mic. You'll be louder in relation to the background noise.

The cheapest option will probably be something involving blankets and pillows ... Just remember: People hear the recording, but they don't see you make it. So it doesn't matter if you look ridiculous.

Check this out. A cheap isolation booth designed by Puce.


http://songfight.net/forums/viewtopic.p ... 6&start=22




Steve

HansGruber wrote:Any ideas about isolation?

Check out this postfor more pictures, or this thread for more info.

I definitely second the cardioid recommendation, and also getting close to the mic (this will be easier with a condenser, because they have typically less proximity effect. Also, play around with noise gating, which can be much more transparent than noise reduction when it's done right.

EDIT: Jinx!

Also I believe roymond records in his elevator, or some such
He made some posts about this a while back.
-bill

sing in your shower. close the curtain.

Thanks, guys -

You gave me a few ideas, or at least helped me narrow down the choices.

I saw Puce's womblike contraption a while ago - I used to deliver plumbing supplies during college, so I feel a special affection for the construction technique. I don't even have space for a booth, but I might be able hang something off a wall or build a desktop version just for my giant cranium. That said, I think I'd rather run a cable around the corner to the closet. I'll have to run back and forth to the computer, but it would be better than suffocating in a box.

deshead wrote:So it doesn't matter if you look ridiculous.

It would only be a matter of time before my wife caught me wearing it and I'd never hear the end of it

deshead wrote: you might actually prefer the sound of a dynamic mic. Something else to consider: Condenser mics need phantom power. If you don't have a pre-amp, things could get costly for ya.

I have a little tube preamp (that I don't use anymore, as it makes the sound warmer) that has phantom power. I would prefer the dynamic mic for a few reasons, mostly 'cause of the room noise. Just frustrated with the sound - I'd like it crisper. Is the Sure SM58 a good model?

HeuristicsInc wrote:Also I believe roymond records in his elevator, or some such

G.D., I wish I had an elevator! I think he owns his building, so he has a little mobile recording booth. I could record in my stairwell, but my neighbors already think I'm strange and loud.

Jack, I'm going to try the shower. It's a little ringy, but I always think I sound great in there. I remodeled my bathroom a few months ago, should have included soundproofing and studio monitors!

i was being totally serious!

One time while recording in the dorms I built a shelter out of old kleenex boxes around my iBook in order to block out the fridge and hall noise. I don't know how well it worked, but whatever. It was fun to pretend.

I don't know why I even post in these help and how to threads...

HansGruber wrote:Is the Sure SM58 a good model?

It's the standard mic for live vocals. And they're dependable as hell. I have a used one that's over 20 years old (a lot of that time spent inside a kick drum,) and it still works like new.

fodroy wrote:I built a shelter out of old kleenex boxes... I don't know how well it worked, but whatever. It was fun to pretend

I tried the same thing but with condom wrappers, that didn't work very well either but sometimes pretending is all I have

i had a similar problem last year or so, and I was getting really frustrated with my condenser mic for amplifying room noise and weird acoustics.

so I got a Sennheiser e835 (a competitor of the sm58) and have not used anything else on my vocals since. It seems to automatically eliminate all the extra sounds that were driving me crazy. And I think it sounds great.

-criag

HansGruber wrote:That said, I think I'd rather run a cable around the corner to the closet. I'll have to run back and forth to the computer, but it would be better than suffocating in a box.

If you go to this sort of arrangement it might be helpful to have something like this: Tranzport - which I have to postface with the fact that I've never used it - but it's supposed to make that sort of thing easier.

I think somebody talked about making a head-fort from couch cushions too ...
-bill

starfinger wrote:so I got a Sennheiser e835 (a competitor of the sm58) and have not used anything else on my vocals since.

You used it on 'Smoke Right'? Right? Sounds friggin great. Nice bright image. Other end of the spectrum from my results! Seems to be very popular on Musician's Friend - users compare it to the sm58 and claim it's better. HHHHmmmmmm.....Can you 'spaz' out a little, or do you have to keep a constant position / distance from the mic while you're singing?

deshead wrote:It's the standard mic for live vocals. And they're dependable as hell. I have a used one that's over 20 years old (a lot of that time spent inside a kick drum,) and it still works like new.

Are you using it for vox, or your kick drum? (Can't tell if you bought it used from a drummer or you've had it yourself for 20 years). 'Cause your vox sound fabulous - I always assumed you were using a condenser. It'd be good to get a workhorse, since it would be my only mic, at least until we move outta the city.

Looking online yesterday, I got the feeling that a performance mic might be the choice, since they're designed with these environmental constraints in mind. I've been stuck thinking 'studio mic', but they tend to be more sensitive since they go in a studio. Duhhh.

HeuristicsInc wrote:If you go to this sort of arrangement it might be helpful to have something like this: Tranzport - which I have to postface with the fact that I've never used it - but it's supposed to make that sort of thing easier.

You know, I love the gizmos, Bill. But I cashed in a fairly robust studio last year for a minimal, USB 'n' software driven setup. I love the feeling of being free from all that crap, and can still record well enough for my purposes (for now). I'd rather not spend 200 samolians just to trigger the DAW. A cheaper solution would be a brick on a string above the space bar and the other end run into the closet

Ideally I can find I mic I won't have to isolate - and I can just sit here and do my thing. That Sennheiser is looking like a viable candidate...

Furrypedro wrote:

fodroy wrote:I built a shelter out of old kleenex boxes... I don't know how well it worked, but whatever. It was fun to pretend

I tried the same thing but with condom wrappers, that didn't work very well either but sometimes pretending is all I have

If you save all your old condom wrappers - you can gently re-fill them with small peices of foam rubber and glue them closed again - then hand them out to children in the park to use as tiny pillows and cusions in their doll-houses.

HansGruber wrote:A cheaper solution would be a brick on a string above the space bar and the other end run into the closet

Ha, understood. I just remembered what I used to do in grad school when I had little money and a weird layout - instead of a mouse I used a trackball. You can move that thing around (carefully) and it won't fall off the screen location you want like a mouse would.
-bill

HansGruber wrote:Can you 'spaz' out a little, or do you have to keep a constant position / distance from the mic while you're singing?

Dear Hans,

I can't *not* spaz out.

Seriously, it seems superhumanly forgiving to me. I got this as part of a trade with an audio store manager who was supposed to get me an SM58, but for some reason they were out of stock. He kept going on and on about how great this one was, so I finally said "what the heck".

Anyway, it sounds better than the 58 to my ears, and yes it was on Smoke Right. But for the sake of full disclosure, I also always run my vocal tracks through WaveArts Trackplug, so you're also hearing that.

-craig

jack wrote:i was being totally serious!

Me too! My cable's long enough to run in the shower. I'm gonna give it a shot just for kicks. Maybe I can save myself the overhead of using the "tiled room" reverb!

HeuristicsInc wrote:instead of a mouse I used a trackball. You can move that thing around (carefully) and it won't fall off the screen location you want like a mouse would.

Ha! Yeah, I can see you tip-toeing around the room, like you're balancing an egg on a spoon. Don't bump the ball! While trackballs generally give me anxiety, I find that sitting on them can really improve one's posture.

starfinger wrote:I can't *not* spaz out.

HeeHee! Yeah, that's pretty obvious, yah freak. While I can not spaz out, I would prefer to . Nothing worse than trying to emote like Whitney Houston while standing stock-still. By my second hit off the crack pipe, I'm bustin' out the flying scissor-kicks like Eddie VanHalen.

starfinger wrote:Seriously, it seems superhumanly forgiving to me. I got this as part of a trade with an audio store manager who was supposed to get me an SM58, but for some reason they were out of stock. He kept going on and on about how great this one was, so I finally said "what the heck". Anyway, it sounds better than the 58 to my ears

I read an almost identical comment on a store site - they bought the Sennhieser cause the store was outta 58s. Everyone seems pleasantly surprised, and all think it's an improvement. I'm gonna keep shopping around, but it's a very strong lead. And the price is right.

starfinger wrote:But for the sake of full disclosure, I also always run my vocal tracks through WaveArts Trackplug, so you're also hearing that.

Oh, so now the truth comes out Are you doing much EQ in Trackplug? Do you find you always have to boost certain frequencies? I have some VSTs that came bundled with Tracktion. The EQ plugins are OK (there's a Mastering plugin that is probably like Trackplug), but the basic Reverb is a total POS. There's a new, better one, but I haven't been able to get it working yet. Also - do you use a pop guard?

HansGruber wrote: Oh, so now the truth comes out Are you doing much EQ in Trackplug? Do you find you always have to boost certain frequencies? I have some VSTs that came bundled with Tracktion. The EQ plugins are OK (there's a Mastering plugin that is probably like Trackplug), but the basic Reverb is a total POS. There's a new, better one, but I haven't been able to get it working yet. Also - do you use a pop guard?

If I do a lot of EQing in TrackPlug, it's just to fit the sound in the song better.. not because there's some inherent problem with the recording.

Are you talking about Final Mix? It does look vaguely similar, but Trackplug does not have multiband compressors.

Anyway, here are some vocal tracks from my Smoke Right and Exclamation Point without any processing.. that is straight from my mouth, through the mic, and the preamp on my MOTU Traveler.

http://kongbalong.com/working/smoke-samplevox-nofx.mp3
http://kongbalong.com/working/exclamati ... x-nofx.mp3

I do not use a pop filter, since the mic has a foam pad in it. The pop filter actually makes it sound muffled, to me.

As far as reverb goes, I use MasterVerb (also wavearts) a lot. There are some free ones that sound pretty good, I think.. Ambience and SIR come to mind.

-craig

starfinger wrote:Are you talking about Final Mix? It does look vaguely similar, but Trackplug does not have multiband compressors.

Yes. I really don't know what I'm doing with mastering, but it at least has some presets for quick-and-easy EQ and compression. Unfortunately, I also use it to brighten up the vocal tracks, and the end result is pretty lossy.

starfinger wrote: Anyway, here are some vocal tracks from my Smoke Right and Exclamation Point without any processing.. that is straight from my mouth, through the mic, and the preamp on my MOTU Traveler.

Oh, thanks Craig - they're just what I needed. They sound incredible - very crisp especially considering you're using a dynamic mic. I'm confident now that my mic really is the offending link in the chain. Nothin' but mud.

Also pleased to hear that you can get away without the pop screen. My mic also has the grill-and-foam construction, but it does no good. I'll look up the reverb plugins - trying to take a more minimal approach (just get a good raw recording), but a little space usually helps.

Thanks

hey, glad to help

-craig

HeuristicsInc wrote:I think somebody talked about making a head-fort from couch cushions too ...

Hey that was me, too. I'm temped to build the Puce Box, but my elevator space is working pretty well. It's the foyer, not the actual elevator. And I own the floor, not the whole building, so I actually have to respect my neighbors a little. Frickin neighbors...oh, and my family. whatever.