The Song Fight Bulletin Board

This has surely been done before but I didn't find where. So, what order do you write your songs in?

I put varies by song though historically I tend to do both simultaneously. I'm actually working to split the process up because I feel both tend to suffer when I do them together.

Secondly: anyone have tips for writing good lyrics? The reason I ask is that, in general, I tend to think that I have above-average writing skills when it comes to stories, essays, poetry, etc. But when I try to translate that to lyric writing I always seem to come up short. Do you think this will improve if I focus on writing music and lyrics separately?

Lyrics and music are typically done at the same time. If I write the lyrics first I have a hard time fitting them to music. I'm not much of a writer when it comes to following meter.

For me it varies by song. But, I never have the lyrics first. It's either lyrics and music simultaneously or the music first.

Steve

As usual, yeah KMS it's been asked before.

Dan-O from Five-O wrote:As usual, yeah KMS it's been asked before.

Ah, but not as a handy-dandy poll.

I always do the music first. I can compose music and make lyrics that fit but I can't make lyrics and compose music that fits. I guess because I use Fruity Loops and I don't know what I'm doing most of the time.

Rone Rivendale wrote:I always do the music first. I can compose music and make lyrics that fit but I can't make lyrics and compose music that fits. I guess because I use Fruity Loops and I don't know what I'm doing most of the time.

I don't use Any bowls of cereal and I still don't have a clue...

I usually walk to work and something happens, (either I end up at shitty work completely bored! or I end up at shitty work with a tune and a handful of words and a certain purpose for the day.....usually bored!)

Rone Rivendale wrote:I can compose music and make lyrics that fit

Then why don't you?

Rone Rivendale wrote:I always do the music first. I can compose music and make lyrics that fit but I can't make lyrics and compose music that fits. I guess because I use Fruity Loops and I don't know what I'm doing most of the time.

A kindred spirit. That sounds like my methodology exactly

kill_me_sarah wrote:Do you think this will improve if I focus on writing music and lyrics separately?

The most obvious response to this is "why not try it and find out?"

kill_me_sarah wrote:anyone have tips for writing good lyrics?

Do it LOTS. Seriously, nothing makes an expert like repetition.

You say you've got good writing skills, so you already have everything you need to be a good songwriter. And song writing isn't that hard. It's not something you have to do perfectly the first time in case you never get another shot at it. In fact, probably 50% of the songs you write will suck, but so what? Write a song a day, and in a month, even with a 50% suckage rate, you'll have 15 good songs.

deshead wrote:Write a song a day, and in a month, even with a 50% suckage rate, you'll have 15 good songs.

If you write a song a day for a month, I think the percentage will be more like 90% suckage.

My songs are channelled through me by a transcendent being. I am but a voice to a higher calling.

Sven wrote:If you write a song a day for a month, I think the percentage will be more like 90% suckage.

Ever tried it?

Serious question. In my experience, the more you write, the better you get.

I've written probably 400+ songs in my life. I've recorded maybe 75 of them. Maybe 10 of them I would say are 'good'. I find that if I try to push my 'muse', it fights back with a vengeance. And if someone is a talented songwriter, writing a large volume of songs in a short time tends to make them all sound like 'filler' to me. Listen to just about any album-a-day for proof. I'd rather write/hear one good song that took a month to write than 30 uninspired exercises in songwriting.

Just my 2¢

I've got to say people bring their own prejudices to the subject of AADs - sure, what is produced is different, but not neccesarily worse.

Some of my personal favourite songs come from the AADs I have done - and 'S/HE' is probably the most coherent thing I have produced. Someone said at the time they wanted to hear it 'produced' but it came out exactly how it would have done if I had taken six months.

Not to say that anyone who takes time over their songs is wasting it (time, that is), but by their very nature AADs are focused on what you write not how you play it, which can be very revealing and more importantly, liberating and enjoyable.

*takes sven's 2 cents and invests it wisely on the markets*

j$

Stubs write the lyrics and sends them to me.
Then and only then, I write the music.

The only variations are these:

Someone else writes the lyrics. I still write the music after.
Across the Dusty Plains (mad dog), What We Need More Of Is Science (fluffy) & others.

Someone else writes the music. The lyrics are still written first.
Watch Your Face (Stubs), Indie Rock Pete (Stubs), The Elements of Style (fluffy)

Someone else writes the music and the lyrics. Lyrics still come first.
Zombie Son (Jeff Williams, Jeff Williams)

...then 12 hours later when I've got home from work, had my dinner, kised the cat and stroked the wife... (yep! I got that right!), I have maybe 11 minutes to crank something out based on what I can remember from the day!

LYRICS FIRST! Yay!

(I've got a bucket load of half written/half arsed ideas, and when I get time I'll dig them out and go "hey! a bucket load of half written/half arsed ideas...")

Never throw anything away! write down everything! buy a dictaphone thing for those lyrical/musical ideas when you're away from a pen.

deshead wrote:

Sven wrote:If you write a song a day for a month, I think the percentage will be more like 90% suckage.

Ever tried it?

Serious question. In my experience, the more you write, the better you get.

I tried it. I wrote one lyric a day, and one riff a day. Short, semi-spontaneous bits. I sort of abandoned it after a week or two.

As for me, I usually write the lyrics with a vague sort of tune in my mind. Most of the specifics of the music are written when I record, unless I want to plan something special. So I'm pretty lyric-heavy.

Spud wrote: What We Need More Of Is Science (fluffy)
Indie Rock Pete (Stubs)

Heh. That's awesome.

Usually it's music and vocal melody at once - some lyrics usually come out of it, but in general I have to refine the lyrics afterwards.

I used to do music and then lyrics and melody, but that was always a one-way ticket to Shoehorn City. Plus, I was treating the melody as an afterthought, but if you're doing pop it should really be one of the first things you think about. For Nur Ein I've been doing the full vocal recording with harmonies and everything first, before I lay down any permanent instruments; this forces me to get off my ass and actually write lyrics and come up with a melody before I get to do the music, aka The Fun Part.

Lyrics first. Sometimes I have a rough idea of the tune in mind when I'm doing the lyrics, but often that rough tune gets tossed out entirely. The melody doesn't really get settled until I'm recording the song (particularly with SF stuff).

I've tried doing music first a few times, and the song never seems to come out as well focused (lyrically) as I want it to be.

Charles (KA)