The Song Fight Bulletin Board

I'm signing a deal on Thursday to essentially provide an original sample library to an independant software developer. In this prototype phase, I'll be providing 400 2-measure 120bpm clips of guitar, bass, keys, etc. that cleanly loop. A lengthier contract may follow if the project does well. The development idea is basically an ultra-simple drag-and-drop loop sequencer that even kids could use to write songs with. "'Funk drums', ok now.. 'funk guitar C' and 'funk bass C'" and so on.

My question is to the folks out there who have experience with recording in loop mode, particularly Craig if I remember right. Would recording in this way really benefit me? I've never used it, but it seems to me that if I want to crank these things out, laying 10 down in a single take would speed things along.

The logistics are my concern, I suppose. Will strict loop paramaters limit my editing control? Is this even something I want to attempt, with Cubase no less?

Any other suggestions on creating a large sample library would be greatly appreciated.

Will strict loop paramaters limit my editing control?

You're primarily concerned with the audio data at the loop's end-points. Almost always, you want a zero-crossing at both ends.

I use one of two approaches when recording loops: For straight-up riffs and drum beats with no accompaniment, I hit record and just start playing the riff over and over. (I think this is what you mean by "laying 10 down in a single take.") After recording, I crop out the best takes and edit those into loops.

Alternately, if I'm playing a loop along with previously record accompaniment, I'll use loop-recording mode and set the loop points to a couple of bars on either side of the section I'm interested in. This way, I still have leeway at the end-points of the loop to find good zero-crossings.

Any other suggestions on creating a large sample library would be greatly appreciated.

The crop-trim-stretch-save routine gets boring as hell. Depending on how you work best, you might want to break up the monotony, either by alternating between "creative mode" and "loop-edit mode" (as opposed to doing all the recording then having to edit 400 loops,) or by getting shitfaced.

deshead wrote:Depending on how you work best, you might want to break up the monotony [...] by getting shitfaced.

True wisdom.

I don't know anything about Cubase's loop mode, but if that lets you dump individual loops as trimmed wav files, then it's probably the right way to do it. Ableton Live is perfect for this kind of thing, but you didn't ask about that.

Whatever software you use, you probably want to record sets of loops together.. that is record new parts while playing along with the other loops you made. This way you'll get pieces that lock together into a groove in a nice way.

sounds like a fun project.

-craig

also, you can force the zero-crossings at your loop boundaries with a really short fade-in/fade-out at the ends of the file

-craig

If you record lengthier passages into Acid, it will mark the measure boundaries in the WAV, so you have markings that tell you the length of the loop and such in SoundForge... dunno if that works in other editors. I have found that to be helpful. Sometimes I chop a bit off the end and merge it into the front rather than cut the sound at the end - for certain things this does sound better (but not if the beginning of the loop sounds all wonky).
I do a good bit of this for Tapegerm.
Definitely play new sounds along with earlier loops, to make sure they'll sound good together. People are likely to mix-n-match from your sampleset.
-bill

The loops mode in Cubase is tricky in how it stacks the loops and allows you to edit them. I really think you are better off just recording to a click and then editing. You may get a great take that is slighty ahead or behind the beat and you can just slide it into place.

You are going to have to mix down each of these loops anyway.

Ken

another way to record a clean 4 or 8 beat loop is to import a drum loop in from almost any stock loop library (reason, garageband, acid) and use that as your click. record to it and then delete any loops you don't need from the drum track. then mute the drum loop (or loops) and bounce down your recorded track. the length should exactly match your muted drumloop length (4, 8, 12, 16 beat, whatever). just make sure to trim your recorded loop so the muted drum loop is longer.

Yeah, I'll definitely be recording to a drum loop that compliments whatever groove I'm trying to lay down, just to ensure a solid feel. People are potentially going to be stacking different grooves against each other, so it's essential that everything be rock solid. By that token, I'll be cleaning up all key parts and recording as many takes as are needed to get these things perfect.

So I joined nextcat.com and this guy Lou Lombardi, "your guitarist" asked me to be his friend. he produces guitar tracks for folks and is doing lots of self promotion. He started a Yahoo group "Guitar Tracks Online" (http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/gu ... cksonline/) where people talk about production, gigs, recording techniques,,,all thigns online guitarist-like. You might want to give it a look.