The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Any other Scrabble enthusiasts out there? I read Stefan Fatsis's "Word Freak" 5-6 years ago and got really interested in the game for a while. I learned the 2 letter word list from edition 3 of the Scrabble dictionary, the Qs without Us, some basic strategy, etc. Learning the 2s really opens up the game a lot, and there are only about 50-60 that are uncommon words. I also got over the notion that playing a "bingo" (a play that involves all 7 tiles from your rack) was basically impossible and not something that should be attempted. I saw "Word Wars" last year, which was pretty fun. Anyway, I'm curious of there are other people here who've read that book or seen that movie or gotten into Scrabble lore...

I read that book, and it was pretty entertaining.
I like the game a lot, but I'm definitely a casual player. I never studied the word lists or anything.

Lunkhead wrote:Any other Scrabble enthusiasts out there? I read Stefan Fatsis's "Word Freak" 5-6 years ago and got really interested in the game for a while. I learned the 2 letter word list from edition 3 of the Scrabble dictionary, the Qs without Us, some basic strategy, etc. Learning the 2s really opens up the game a lot, and there are only about 50-60 that are uncommon words. I also got over the notion that playing a "bingo" (a play that involves all 7 tiles from your rack) was basically impossible and not something that should be attempted. I saw "Word Wars" last year, which was pretty fun. Anyway, I'm curious of there are other people here who've read that book or seen that movie or gotten into Scrabble lore...

Yes - "Word Freak" is a great book. I love scrabble! There is no better way to start a fight!
(though I don't know how Americans can play scrabble - I mean, you guys can't even spell properly. If anyone tried "color" or "aluminum" on me, they'd be getting their little tile holder jammed up their arse )

I play Scrabble on the computer almost daily.

Yes, two-letter words are crucial. The ones with X's (XI, XU, AX, EX, and OX) have major point potential, and KA is a great way to dump the K. Short words with Q's and Z's, like QUA, SUQ, QAT, and ADZ are golden. And scoring bingo isn't that difficult, look for common suffixes in your rack (like -ING or -TION), and of course it helps to have blanks and S's.

C's and V's suck. I hate them.

Sometimes they televise Scrabble tournaments. I swear, it's like they're playing in an entirely different language.

I don't like Scrabble. I like crosswords, because they're games about language, but Scrabble is just a game that has, you know, 360,000 rules or however many valid letter combinations exist. It's a very mechanical game, and in my mind without the elegance of chess--which could also have theoretical perfect play--because so much of it is simply a game of who knows more valid words, versus chess's who will be able to employ their pieces better. Chess has identical pieces and all information is available to both players at all times. Scrabble is like boring poker with hundreds of thousands of possible hands, and nobody knows all of them.

Watch what you say about poker there, mate. It's not at all about knowing what to do with a given hand, because there is no correct answer to "what do I do with 99?" It's about deciding how to react in a certain situation with regards to position, stack sizes, game atmosphere, and then maybe the cards in your hand come into consideration. It's a game of incomplete information, which makes it very different from chess, where you can see every possible move on the board at any time.

I can see scrabble having similar intricacies. Sure, it's a huge advantage knowing lots of words, just like knowing how AA matches up against 76s (~77.5%), but that's not the essence of the game. The game is about employing the words you know to put yourself in a position to grab the best squares on the board with the best letters possible. Laying down a 'qua' or 'adz' on blank tiles is useless if your opponent can lay down 'butthead' on a triple word score.

I also like the idea of making sub-optimal plays on one turn to save the big letters for a better later turn. Then, expected value and ROI come into play, which as a poker player, gives me a raging clue.

Crosswords strike me as often being about trivia, though, not just word play. Did you see that one movie? Or do you know that one historical fact? etc. Such things are not my strong suit, personally. I've always been into vocab, though, so I like actually like learning funky new words.

It's true, though, that you don't need to know what the words mean to play them, so there is the mechanical aspect of people (even non-English speakers) trying to just memorize every possible valid word by brute force. That still doesn't make them automatically a good player, though, it just means that the game is more about anagramming and strategy. The strategy, as Sober said, comes partly into play in trying to get the best positions on the board for your words and tiles, and blocking your opponent from using those tiles. Really the only way to get serious points is to use the bonus tiles. You also want to manage your tiles by trying to avoid winding up with all consonants or all vowels (this usually involves trying to leave on your rack similar numbers of vowels and consonants after you've played a word, and for the really hardcore tracking what tiles have been played and what tiles are likely to be in the bag, etc.), by saving highly valuable tiles like the blanks and Ss for bingos, ditching problematic tiles quickly, etc. Then there's the anagramming, and other ways of making words out of your tiles and the tiles on the board, such as hooking on to existing words, playing across them, etc.

Have you read "Word Freak" Marcus? I think it would change your view of the game.

By the way, "aa" is a type of lava, which is what I first thought of when I read Sober's post, not ace-ace...

Lunkhead wrote:By the way, "aa" is a type of lava, which is what I first thought of when I read Sober's post, not ace-ace...

Me too! I use that word all the time. It generally doesn't make for a good score, but works well as a vowel dump.

So, what are our high scores, high plays, etc? Recently I topped 500 in a 2-player game, and also got 320 in a 4-player game. Granted, it's just against computer AI, which is set to a relatively moderate skill.

My highest single play was when I had the word "jingles" in my rack (with one blank), and it netted me 122 points.

A'a has an apostrophe in it. Doesn't that mean it shouldn't be legal? It's the kind that's all spiky and whatnot, as opposed to the flowy pancake kind (oh yeah, Pahoehoe). This information is courtesy of Mr. Finger who had the courtesy to invite me to Hawai'i.
I definitely dig Scrabble but I don't memorize stuff because that would make it less fun. My wife is crazy good at anagrams, so I have to really try hard tho.
-bill

I'll read "Word Freak" if you go see "Wordplay," which is about the NYT crossword.

Word Freak is a hilarious book. I highly recommend it, because I know how much you all value my opinions. I've never played competitive Scrabble, but the tournament chess scene is eerily similar. Same collection of total wackos, very low average level of social grace. Betcha there are all sorts of subcultures like that.

Bingoes are usually there once you learn how to find them. This is a great way to impress your girlfriend's little brother. Maybe even her whole family! Also, look for ways to make multiple words with one turn. That's the kind of thing that gets you lots of points and lots of adoring fans.

British style crosswords ("cryptics" in America, usually) are much more fun if you like more wordplay and less trivia. They still take some learning-- you have to get used to the idioms, just like anything else. The emphasis is on figuring out what each clue means, and not so much knowing what films Warren Beatty was in (ten to one it's Reds). Anagram fans will probably enjoy them.

One last opinion: the amount of stuff you have to memorize to play a decent game of chess is just staggering, for such a simple game with no random element. How do you decide what move to play? The best answer is that you've seen this exact position before and you already know what to do. I'm not entirely sure why this is relevant, though.

I'm not exactly sure what my best score is, but I know I've never broken 500, that's pretty impressive. I think I may have broken 400 a couple times, but I'm not sure, so I'd have to say a really good game for me at this point would be 350-400. I used to play 1-2x per week against a friend of mine who was theoretical physicist at the Lawrence Berkeley Labs, and he was really really good. That We stopped playing regularly a while ago and he recently moved to Baltimore, which is too bad. I think it's way more fun to play in person, so next SF! Live we should have a game or two, Albatross. You'll probably kick my butt. I played on Halloween with Ken and his friend Jennifer and got really lucky and bingoed on my first two turns, which whet my appetite for more Scrabble. What software do you use? Have you ever tried "wordbiz"? It's the online Scrabble that people like "GI" Joel use, along with other (non-pro) players.

I definitely want to see "Wordplay", I like crossword puzzles even though I'm not that good at them.

Lunkhead wrote:Anyway, I'm curious of there are other people here who've read that book or seen that movie or gotten into Scrabble lore...

I know Geoff Thevenot, who just started playing Scrabble professionally like 3 years ago and now is a total badass.

Lunkhead wrote:next SF! Live we should have a game or two, Albatross. You'll probably kick my butt.

I doubt it. Again, I usually play against moderately skilled AI and my vocabulary isn't exactly expansive. That's more Rabid's department, he throws around obscure words all the time. Although, playing against the highest AI is a really good way to learn off-the-wall words, because it uses a ton of them as it's scoring 500+points and bingoing 3-4 times against you routinely.

The software I have is Scrabble 2.0, when it was still put out by Hasbro. I got it free from a box of cereal. I also have a copy of the board game that has an embossed grid and rotates. Never tried Wordbiz.

erik wrote:

Lunkhead wrote:Anyway, I'm curious of there are other people here who've read that book or seen that movie or gotten into Scrabble lore...

I know Geoff Thevenot, who just started playing Scrabble professionally like 3 years ago and now is a total badass.

http://www.scrabble-assoc.com/tourneys/ ... 1/071.html

Wow, he got 2nd place in the 2006 US Scrabble Open. He beat Joe Edley and Brian Cappelletto! Hm, he also lost Brian Cappelleto in a later round, and to Marlon Hill at one point. He's a bonafide Scrabble star. That's awesome. Erik, did he disappear for a few months/years memorizing word lists, or did he already have a galactic vocabulary or something?

Lunkhead wrote: It's true, though, that you don't need to know what the words mean to play them, so there is the mechanical aspect of people (even non-English speakers) trying to just memorize every possible valid word by brute force.

I don't care if that is the rules - that is not the way a gentleman plays Scrabble.

Those stupid two letter words piss me off. I always insist on the general house rule that an official game dictionary is selected (A proper dictionary mind you - not a Scrabble dictionary - I use a Macquarie, though depending on your location, a Webster or an OED will suffice) - and all played words must be in that dictionary. Also, a player must know the meaning of the word before playing it (ie. a dictionary may be used for spell checking or word confirming - but not for trawling). Anybody trying to play something like "aa" who doesn't know the meaning of the word and cannot use it in a coherent sentance will be subject to a severe taunting, possibly involving some sort of physical punishment involving trouser removal. (and FWIW - my editition of the Macquarie does not list "aa").

Obviously arguements will always ensue - but that is the real charm of the game. Naturally the game should stop before blows are reached - but Srabble isn't Scrabble without a modicum of tears and muttered threats relating to the insertion of tile racks into anuses.

bzl wrote: British style crosswords ("cryptics" in America, usually) are much more fun if you like more wordplay and less trivia.

I love cryptics... I do the ones in Games Magazine all the time. The trick here is finding British-style crosswords that aren't really British, because I've had trouble with the cultural knowledge stuff in those. I'd like to find more, though... which ones do you do?

I really wanted to see the Will Shortz movie. But we missed it. Need to rent that.
-bill

Oh yeah, I meant to mention that in chess you have to know tons and tons of opening theory before you can go anywhere. which is why fischer random/960 was devised.

Just read about this new licensed Scrabble game for OS X (EDIT: and XP) today:

http://www.gamehouse.com/gamedetails/?g ... nloadgames

Sounds pretty good, only $20.

HeuristicsInc wrote:

bzl wrote: British style crosswords ("cryptics" in America, usually) are much more fun if you like more wordplay and less trivia.

I love cryptics... I do the ones in Games Magazine all the time. The trick here is finding British-style crosswords that aren't really British, because I've had trouble with the cultural knowledge stuff in those. I'd like to find more, though... which ones do you do?

Yeah! Real men do crypic crosswords. That sodoku crap is for nancy boys.

The Sydney Morning Herald publishes one online daily:
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/puz ... yptic.html

Also - the SMH "Quick Crossword" usually focusus on word-meanings and synonyms rather than trivia.
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/puzzles/quick.html

Lunkhead wrote:

erik wrote:

Lunkhead wrote:Anyway, I'm curious of there are other people here who've read that book or seen that movie or gotten into Scrabble lore...

I know Geoff Thevenot, who just started playing Scrabble professionally like 3 years ago and now is a total badass.

http://www.scrabble-assoc.com/tourneys/ ... 1/071.html

Wow, he got 2nd place in the 2006 US Scrabble Open. He beat Joe Edley and Brian Cappelletto! Hm, he also lost Brian Cappelleto in a later round, and to Marlon Hill at one point. He's a bonafide Scrabble star. That's awesome. Erik, did he disappear for a few months/years memorizing word lists, or did he already have a galactic vocabulary or something?

Yeah, he just knows a crapload of words. He's the best speller in Austin: he either won or came in second in our local adult spelling bee like 4 out of the 5 years that he entered it.

HeuristicsInc wrote:I love cryptics... I do the ones in Games Magazine all the time. The trick here is finding British-style crosswords that aren't really British, because I've had trouble with the cultural knowledge stuff in those. I'd like to find more, though... which ones do you do?

You used to be able to get a good daily one online from The Globe and Mail (not to be confused with the Toronto Star) but it requires a registration now, and it looks like you might have to pay. Still worth checking out, because, as I remember, it was a decent puzzle (edited by Fraser Simpson) and seven days a week.

Best bet in America is probably to just look through the crossword books at your local Barnes & Noble. There's probably one or two good cryptic collections mixed in amongst NY Times Sunday Puzzles Volume Sixty-Three and Large-Print Puzzles to Solve On Your Coffee Break. Anything by Cox & Rathvon will be excellent, and Henry Hook has done a couple of good books too.

Along non-fiction lines, Pretty Girl in Crimson Rose (8) by Sandy Balfour (which sounds like Caravan Ray's porn movie alias but isn't) was pretty entertaining. If the odd-looking title makes any sense to you then it is worth a look. (If it doesn't then the book will probably be incomprehensible.)