The Song Fight Bulletin Board

What tools (besides your gray matter) do YOU use to write lyrics?

Lately I've been delving into the arena of lyric-writing tools. You know, rhyming dictionaries, reverse dictionaries, phrase searches, etc. I was hoping we could trade a list of good programs or Web sites for songwritin' (particularly lyrics, but chord progressions and melodies are fun too). Emphasis on songwriting, not recording.

Here are some of the better sites I've used in the past:

RhymeZone - rhymes, definitions, synonyms, antonyms, consonant sounds, some phrasal search results, etc

WordNet - search word relations; very cool. Includes hypernyms and holonyms (e.g. a pye-dog is a kind of mutt, which is a kind of dog, which is of genus Canis, family Canidae, order Carnivora, etc), synonyms, antonyms and related words.

Cliche Finder - Search for cliches which use a certain word (e.g. "sweet as apple pie"). The catch: it doesn't search variations of a word, so your search for "apple" will yield different results than "apples".

Wikiquote - Lots of quotes, compiled by the Internet community (this is an offshoot of the great Wikipedia).

Masterwriter - Commercial product; overpriced, I think. Though it does have a searchable list of pop-culture names and terms, a real dictionary, an alliteration dictionary, and some slant rhymes.

UPDATED to include other URLs from this thread, and more:

Seventh Sanctum Generators - Generates ideas for a variety of topics, including characters, martial arts moves, song challenges, story ideas and themes.

SongFight! Song Ideas Generator - Pulls random song ideas as they were suggested by the SongFight! community on the old forums.

Multibabel - Convert a phrase from/to English several times in succession, severely mutating it. Recycle those old lyrics into something new. For example, "Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me" becomes "To the times my games of the alcohol of the returns in me."

The reason I ask? I find these tools painful to use for long periods of time. And I can't find good free slant-rhyme or alliteration searches, for example. So I'm trying to write my own tool to fill in the gaps (for purely selfish reasons, plus it's fun to learn about wordplay). But it'd be dumb to work on something when there are already good alternatives.

So where do you go for inspiration or lyric-writing assistance, when you're not braining it out hardcore? Google image search? Thesaurus.com? Dictionary.com?

i used a ryhming dictionary once. first song i ever wrote. umm other than that i have used lines from books i was reading before i put them down to write a song inspired by that line. but other than that never used anything. just waited for inpiration. and never spent more than 20 minutes writing lyrics. if it takes any longer i get bored and come back to it later. but as a general rule i try not to ryhme anymore. results in fuller ideas and better imagery.

my girlfriend wrote lyrics fully by opening a book randomly and writing down the first line she saw. it was really good. but then again im biased.

as far as a dictionary goes if you didnt know what the word meant before you were going to write it then you will prolly sound silly using it. unless your going for that kinda thing.

slowRodeo wrote:as far as a dictionary goes if you didnt know what the word meant before you were going to write it then you will prolly sound silly using it. unless your going for that kinda thing.

That's silly.

Use a dictionary.

Caravan Ray wrote:

slowRodeo wrote:as far as a dictionary goes if you didnt know what the word meant before you were going to write it then you will prolly sound silly using it. unless your going for that kinda thing.

That's silly.

Use a dictionary.

Yeah, because everyone knows what defenestration means right?

Dan-O from Five-O wrote:Yeah, because everyone knows what defenestration means right?

Defenestrate your dictionary. Buy a thesaurus.

I work my way through the alphabet to find a word I like that rhymes... then I resort to a rhyming dictionary.


I also use a pen, and a pad of paper.

Occasionally I'll use my computer, and word.


I have also used napkins, the back of ferry tickets, ripped open envelopes, tote tags (while working on the floor of the plant, if inspiration strikes, a tote tag and a sharpie!!) and my pay stub. In fact, some of the stuff I REALLY like is on the back of a pay stub. Not so thrilled with the stuff written on the other side... but hey.

http://seventhsanctum.com/index-writ.php has some cool stuff, including a song challenge generator, which should certainly appeal to this crowd. it's mainly meant for general writing inspiration, but can be applied to whatever.

Reaching, by Raymond Carver

He knew he was
in trouble when,
in the middle
of the poem,
he found himself
reaching
for his thesaurus
and then
Webster's
in that order.

Mostess wrote:

Dan-O from Five-O wrote:Yeah, because everyone knows what defenestration means right?

Defenestrate your dictionary. Buy a thesaurus.

You seem to have gotten your reference books mixed up.

It's best to have a dictionary on hand when you're writing anything, because, even if you don't actually use it, it helps to have it when you need it. And you're going to need it to check to make sure the word you want to use is the right word, or to poke around for any other connotations you might have been unaware of. Wallace Stevens routinely checked several different dictionaries for certain words while writing.

Thesauruses are alright, but by no means necessary tools. If you do use a thesaurus, though, please Google any new word to check for common use before slapping it into your song/poem/story/essay/whatever. Save yourself some embarrassment.

Generic wrote: It's best to have a dictionary on hand when you're writing anything, because, even if you don't actually use it, it helps to have it when you need it. And you're going to need it to check to make sure the word you want to use is the right word, or to poke around for any other connotations you might have been unaware of.

Agreed. The dictionary is your friend.

Have you really used a dictionary when writing a song?

Dan-O from Five-O wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:

slowRodeo wrote:as far as a dictionary goes if you didnt know what the word meant before you were going to write it then you will prolly sound silly using it. unless your going for that kinda thing.

That's silly.

Use a dictionary.

Yeah, because everyone knows what defenestration means right?

http://www.metaphorm.org/pages/portfoli ... defen.html

best music shop in SF used to be right across the street (Black Market Music)

Caravan Ray wrote:

slowRodeo wrote:as far as a dictionary goes if you didnt know what the word meant before you were going to write it then you will prolly sound silly using it. unless your going for that kinda thing.

That's silly.

Use a dictionary.

Actually I'm not sure it is that silly. I think it's pretty wise in a 'write what you know' tip. people always recoil at 'write what you know' because they mis-read it as 'write what you have experienced, first-hand'. There's very few people who can carry off someone else's wisdom as their own. I think it's more about accepting that you as a person are more interesting than you probably think you are. If you think you're really interesting, then write music for someone else

j$

15-16 puzzle wrote:Have you really used a dictionary when writing a song?

Probably.

I have a Concise Macquarie on my desk and I use it to check that what I think a word means is actually correct. I'm surprised by how often I'm wrong.

I don't use it as 'songwiting tool' as such - ie. trawling through it looking for words. I just think that it's an essential item that anyone who writes anything should use as much as possible.

I may have misunderstood slowRodeo's intent earlier when I described his statement as "silly". What I thought was silly was the idea that a dictionary isn't useful. Apologies to SR if I misinterpreted.

Caravan Ray wrote: I don't use it as 'songwiting tool' as such - ie. trawling through it looking for words. I just think that it's an essential item that anyone who writes anything should use as much as possible.

You misspelled "necessary" at the end of that last sentence-- check your dictionary.

bzl wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote: I don't use it as 'songwiting tool' as such - ie. trawling through it looking for words. I just think that it's an essential item that anyone who writes anything should use as much as possible.

You misspelled "necessary" at the end of that last sentence-- check your dictionary.

Ha! - I had that coming!
But I said I used it to check meanings, not spelling - bugger spelling.

...hang on - I didn't write 'necessary' in that last sentence...
------------------------------------------------
EDIT:
Sorry - you weren't bagging spelling were you - you were bagging meanings - I'm slow. Fair call.

That's the danger of using a cliched phrase instead of thinking want I really trying to say.

Anyway, I've re-thought now and I'm going to stick with "as much as possible" - the hyperbole of the cliche fits what I'm trying to say - "Use your Dictionary as much as possible kids, its fun!"

j$ wrote: Actually I'm not sure it is that silly. I think it's pretty wise in a 'write what you know' tip. people always recoil at 'write what you know' because they mis-read it as 'write what you have experienced, first-hand'. There's very few people who can carry off someone else's wisdom as their own. I think it's more about accepting that you as a person are more interesting than you probably think you are. If you think you're really interesting, then write music for someone else

j$

exactly. just cause you looked up antidisestablishmentarianism doesnt mean you wont sound dumb saying it. actually no that would be awesome. but generally I use words I use or know what they mean. just me. though. you can look up words and use them.

So you should never use a word unless you already know it? How do you learn words? Like I said earlier, don't just pick a random word from a dictionary and slap it anywhere... Google it, get a feel for the contexts it's used in.

Oh, and Erik, I have on occasion actually used a dictionary in writing a song. Not often, but it's happened. More frequently when I'm writing poetry.

I used a rhyming dictionary once to see if louse was pronounced how I thought it was. Anything more than that is like cheating.

slowRodeo wrote: exactly. just cause you looked up antidisestablishmentarianism doesnt mean you wont sound dumb saying it.

That's not what i was saying, but I agree with the sentiment (with an addendum to this sentence, 'but it doesn't mean you will, neccessarily.')

generic wrote: So you should never use a word unless you already know it? How do you learn words?

That's not what I was saying - I can't speak for slowrodeo here. Perhaps a better way of looking at it would be 'be sure that you fully understand a word before you start using it.'

And anyone who looks up for words in a dictionary rather than looking up the meaning of words in a dictionary in order to improve their poem/lyric/whatever runs the risk of being a total doofus. Of course I whole-heartedly reccommend the general perusal of dictionaries for pleasure.

j$

sorry that was a joke. umm. sheesh. im not funny.

anywho apperently you can read my mind and then talk better for me than i can for myself because i agree with you. just i dont say it as purdy or understanding-like as you does. i sound retarded.

i liked the part of your post where you said do you look in the dictionary for the words or for the meaning of a word.