The Song Fight Bulletin Board

General idea: post ALL "Convalescence" collab requests here.

I've got a tune and I'm looking to collab.
In Box: vocals, lyrics, basic guitar rhythm
Minimum Requirements: drums
Suggested Requirements: instrumentation, instrumental fills/parts, and suggestions

I will keep working on instrumental parts/fills through Sunday if I don't get anyone to collab. If I don't have someone by Sunday, I'll start working on drums.

EDIT: FYI, the track in question goes "something" like this (with all its crappy inconsistencies):
http://www.philwages.com/music/convalescence2.mp3
The Verse chords are A-D, A-G-E, A-D, G-E
The Chorus chords are D-Bm-A x3, G-E
If anyone has any suggestions for "inbetween instrumental parts", I'm open to it! PM a small MP3 of the suggested part along with the chords or tab.

OFFER: If anyone needs vocals, lyrics, and/or crappy guitar for YOUR song, PM me.

If I have the song with click track by noon tomorrow, I can probably play some drums.

jolly roger wrote:If I have the song with click track by noon tomorrow, I can probably play some drums.

Tell me if this will work (FYI this is how I've had to do all my collabs because I have to practice a song a lot to get it in time): I send you my demo track that has an inconsistent tempo (therefore, no click track), you make up the beats as it *should* be and you send that track to me, then I re-record the guitar and vocals to match.

I know that scenario can likely make it difficult, so I would understand if you have to pass on it. However, I would LOVE to get the drums if you (or anyone) has time for such a project. Or, I could just try to play to a click track. It won't be perfect, but it might be "close enough".

One more option, if you just wanna make up an completely new drum track and/or provide your choice of instrumentation, I could add in vocals and/or guitar (and possibly kazoo) for a separate entry. OR (grin)....

LMK If we don't collab on this song, I can easily forsee a future collab.

That's definitely a different way to collab. It's similar, as generally I get the song by pm with a click track, with consistent tempo, but not the final guitar/vocal track. That way I can get some dynamics in, then the final tracks are laid down on top of the drums. Do you mean that I would have to play drums with no music to play along to? Because that's pretty difficult, at least for me. Getting the track with a click track makes it a thousand times easier for a drummer.

jolly roger wrote:That's definitely a different way to collab. It's similar, as generally I get the song by pm with a click track, with consistent tempo, but not the final guitar/vocal track. That way I can get some dynamics in, then the final tracks are laid down on top of the drums. Do you mean that I would have to play drums with no music to play along to? Because that's pretty difficult, at least for me. Getting the track with a click track makes it a thousand times easier for a drummer.

That's pretty much what a local drummer told me. I think Paco and King Arthur listened to my crappy demos, and re-recorded the entire mess (drums, guitars, and bass) then I just added the vocals. Of course, I realize that if you do drums only, then my collab scenario doesn't work, and even if someone could do all this, I do realize I am asking a lot.

With all that said, if the drums could be created sometime next week when I feel I have the song more "nailed down", then I could provide you with a click track (it would actually be 4/4 time snare beats as audacity's "click track"/metronome is difficult for me to play with). I believe you said that you would need the track by today if you were to lay down the drums, but incase that changes, I will make a new post here when I'm "ready" with a snare click track OR I will let yall know if someone volunteers to do the instrumentation.

I just posted the track in question along with chords and lyrics above in my original post.

Wages wrote:I send you my demo track that has an inconsistent tempo (therefore, no click track), you make up the beats as it *should* be and you send that track to me

I can tell you guys from experience, this won't work. Like JR said, drummers need *something* to play along with, and if that something has wildly inconsistent tempo, it's just too frustrating.

From a drummer's perspective, it's definitely better if you play along with the click, even if you don't match up perfectly.

Wages wrote:It won't be perfect, but it might be "close enough".

Phil, what is it about the click that throws you off? Do you "lose" the click, and start playing to your own internal rhythm?

If so, here're 3 things you can try:
1) Make the click louder. Make it so all you hear is the click.
2) Use a drum machine instead of a click. If you can find a beat that somewhat matches your strumming, you'll have an easier time keeping things in synch. Here's a loop for you that kinda matches the strumming in your demo above. 85 BPM.
3) Simplify the strumming as much as you can, at least for the demo track. You can re-record the guitar later, and add your right-hand action back in. But for the demo, you might find it easier to play a steadier rhythm which will more naturally line up with the click.

Another general tip for this type of collab is to give the drummer separate guitar and vocal tracks. It is hard to play along with a mix when it is mostly effected vocals.

Ken

deshead wrote:3) Simplify the strumming as much as you can, at least for the demo track. You can re-record the guitar later, and add your right-hand action back in. But for the demo, you might find it easier to play a steadier rhythm which will more naturally line up with the click.

I love all the advice in the post above, but this is the best. For the original demo for a collab, simplify. If you have an intricate strumming pattern originally, it will be difficult for you to record well, therefore causing any collaborators to be off. Do something simple, and once the majority of the song is developed, rerecord the guitar as it fits the song.

EDIT: Good advice from Ken as well.

jolly roger wrote:

deshead wrote:3) Simplify the strumming as much as you can, at least for the demo track. You can re-record the guitar later, and add your right-hand action back in. But for the demo, you might find it easier to play a steadier rhythm which will more naturally line up with the click.

I love all the advice in the post above, but this is the best. For the original demo for a collab, simplify. If you have an intricate strumming pattern originally, it will be difficult for you to record well, therefore causing any collaborators to be off. Do something simple, and once the majority of the song is developed, rerecord the guitar as it fits the song.

EDIT: Good advice from Ken as well.

Makes sense and what's more, it works! Here is guitar & snare track:
http://www.philwages.com/music/convalescence_demo3.mp3

Jolly Roger... if you still wanna drop some beats, I'll be happy to accept. If not, anyone else? LMK if this track works.

Sorry dude. I was really hoping to do this, and it's really cool how you followed the advice and are improving on these aspects, but I just burned my last disc right before I read this. If I had seen it a few hours ago, I definitely would have played for you. The field is officially open, and anyone who wants to drum for Wages, don't feel held back now. Future collabs are definitely possible though.

Phil, I have to tell you, I'm feeling it. But I'm screwed on time right now.

jolly roger wrote:Sorry dude. I was really hoping to do this, and it's really cool how you followed the advice and are improving on these aspects, but I just burned my last disc right before I read this.

No big deal. You had already told me your time line and I dragged my feet.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:Phil, I have to tell you, I'm feeling it. But I'm screwed on time right now.

No problem dude. I'll just work with some loops (and perhaps Leaf) unless someone PM me. We'll do a song sometime, don't sweat it.

Here's the current state of this tune:
http://www.philwages.com/music/convalescencedemo4.mp3

Right now, big portions of this is looped guitars. Once I work the whole bit out smoother, I plan to re-record the guitars and vocals. I'm looking for any suggestions on how to make this better. Whether it is dropping a part, adding a part, changing the melody in some areas, whatever.

If anyone could add bass, I'd be VERY grateful. Another great thing to have would be some sort of keyboard or organ type of pad for the tune. I plan to try some different drum samples for the chorus part, but if anyone gets time to tinker, I'm hoping to make the chorus more "open", for a lighter, groove feel so whether that be through drums or suggestions, I'm all ears!

And on the guitar, do you get the sense that its too distorted for this tune? I could try to clean it up if it would seem to make sense.

I know I've been given an incredible amount of help, and I almost feel I should be entering this tune under a name like "Learning to Record With The Songfight Tutorial All-Stars".

I feel like the two guitars are too much hard-panned, and don't sit in the mix well. On the other hand I might be able to get you some keyboard bits if you want them.
-bill

HeuristicsInc wrote:I feel like the two guitars are too much hard-panned, and don't sit in the mix well. On the other hand I might be able to get you some keyboard bits if you want them.
-bill

I re-listened to this mix and I found it quite erratic! I don't know how I initially thought this mix sounded halfway decent. I will change the panning for sure and work on the levels.

If you can provide keyboard bits, bring it on! Just PM them to me and I'll add 'em in. Thanks!

HeuristicsInc wrote:I feel like the two guitars are too much hard-panned

Agreed. I've found that hard-panning guitar parts is mostly useful if the guitars are playing the same part. I'd pan the guitar you're playing the chords with in the verse a lot less, probably 20%ish more or less. The other guitar could still be less far panned.

PS. Loving the song, Wages. Great chorus.

I like the chorus part the best. Your vocals on the chorus seem to match the pitch/tone of the music the better than on the verses.

I don't like the 2 guitar sounds from seconds 2-4 of the song. It would sound better without that in my opionion. But, I don't play guitar and have no musical training, so I could be totally wrong.

- Eric

impulse wrote:I like the chorus part the best. Your vocals on the chorus seem to match the pitch/tone of the music the better than on the verses.

I don't like the 2 guitar sounds from seconds 2-4 of the song. It would sound better without that in my opionion. But, I don't play guitar and have no musical training, so I could be totally wrong.

- Eric

Thanks!

I completely agree! This is the shortcoming of this demo, but I fully intend to improve this over the next couple of days. Thanks very much for your help!

jolly roger wrote:

HeuristicsInc wrote:I feel like the two guitars are too much hard-panned

Agreed. I've found that hard-panning guitar parts is mostly useful if the guitars are playing the same part. I'd pan the guitar you're playing the chords with in the verse a lot less, probably 20%ish more or less. The other guitar could still be less far panned.

PS. Loving the song, Wages. Great chorus.

I will definitely be "less-panning" the guitar parts. My ears aren't that great at hearing subtle differences, so I do drastic panning. However, I recently cleaned my ears with Peroxide, so maybe having less wax in my ears will improve my hearing, but I doubt it.

I couldn't help myself. I played around with your mix and added some bass and b/u vox. I didn't have much time to spend on it, but here is a quicky.
Wages - Convalescence

PS, I know the back up vox suck, I was trying to match your voice by duplicating my B/U vox and pitch shifting one of them, then lightly panning the original left and the shifted one right, but it just sounds weird. But I can send you the bass track to mix on your end if you like.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:I couldn't help myself. I played around with your mix and added some bass and b/u vox. I didn't have much time to spend on it, but here is a quicky.
Wages - Convalescence

But I can send you the bass track to mix on your end if you like.

Thanks! The bass track would be great!

Maybe since Pink Ribbon isn't posted yet, we can get another delay so I can get a few more days to work on this?

HeuristicsInc wrote:On the other hand I might be able to get you some keyboard bits if you want them.

Yeah! It looks like I am officially in this collab. Nice to be back in the fight.
-bill