Nur Ein II Round Four "No One Else"

[Ross]

First of all, thanks the positive reviews. I realize that when you get to this round of Ein! anything can happen, but I am very appreciative of the positive peer reviews here and am glad you guys are enjoying the song.

Ray asked a good question (I knew I'd be held accountable for my previous posts eventually )

So Ross - according to your complex song marking schemes - how do you assess somebody who addresses a "No Guitar" challenge by using an instrument that looks just like a guitar and sounds just like a guitar? Wink

I'm not sure if you were being rhetorical or not, so...

....in my little point thing I’ve been using the last few weeks (which is fairly arbitrary, admittedly), there are five criteria, the last of which is “challenge.” For each criteria I give a score from –2 to +2. So the highest possible would be 10, lowest, -10. For this challenge I’d probably give myself a 0 or a +1, but certainly not a +2. I don’t think I’ve given anyone less than zero (zero being “I believe it but I can’t hear it”). However, I did, in fact, do the challenge. Based on the judging so far, I would hope not to be significantly penalized for using this instrument, especially since permission was clearly given for “guitar-like” instruments.
BTW – The dulcimer has only three strings (well, four, but one is a “double” like a mandolin or 12-string) and does not have a fret every half-step. They are fretted in mixolydian mode, so only 8 total notes are available (it is however common to have a so-called 6-and-a-half fret installed to get the leading tone on the melody string). This can make songwriting and chording a little unusual. Additionally, they are played by sitting it on the lap and fretting with the hands downward. So, in several ways not played much like a guitar.

Other Songfight! songs I have played dulcimer on: “Come a Hellin’,” “She Gave Up,” “Pieces of Eight” (by the Seamus Collective) “For the Time Being” (by the Seamus Collective)

PS - What does "Come a Cropper" mean?

[Billy's Little Trip]

By the way I wasn’t aware that we could use eliminated players to supplement our songs , but hey its good to know that now

I just went to look for the rule on this, but couldn't find. I'm pretty sure that I read that collaborations with members that play an instrument that no one else in the band plays, is OK, or something to that effect. Plus, unofficially, Steve is my official horn section on my songs with horns.

[Thanks For The Frisbee]

By the way I wasn’t aware that we could use eliminated players to supplement our songs , but hey its good to know that now

I just went to look for the rule on this, but couldn't find. I'm pretty sure that I read that collaborations with members that play an instrument that no one else in the band plays, is OK, or something to that effect. Plus, unofficially, Steve is my official horn section on my songs with horns.

i definately wasnt complaining. you guys are great

[Billy's Little Trip]

By the way I wasn’t aware that we could use eliminated players to supplement our songs , but hey its good to know that now

I just went to look for the rule on this, but couldn't find. I'm pretty sure that I read that collaborations with members that play an instrument that no one else in the band plays, is OK, or something to that effect. Plus, unofficially, Steve is my official horn section on my songs with horns.

i definately wasnt complaining. you guys are great

Oh, I know that my bruva. I just wanted to point out that I remember reading it, but now, I can't find it.

[Lunkhead]

I'm too exhausted to write much, so I'll just say "Good job!" to everybody. Andy, it's too bad you didn't get your song in. It's easily one of my favorites from the fight. Really nice playing and singing. Some people fared better without their guitars than others, which was interesting to hear. Again I feel like I can't predict very well what the judges may decide. So good luck to everyone. Whatever happens it's been a productive experience, if not always a fun one.

[Ross]

I remember reading it, but now, I can't find it.

On April 27 on page of 7 of the Nur Ein! II Thread.

Rules Clarification Please:

Last year there was a little bit of pre-Ein discussion about guest musicians. I assume they are off limits except in the case of non-optional challenges. That would mean, for instance, I couldn't have someone contribute a kick-ass guitar solo if they aren't normally a member of my band. But if the challenge is "Harp Solo" and I don't play harp I could use another harp player.

I forgot to answer this before. I think this quote sums it up nicely:

There's clearly a line somewhere; I think "getting your friend the bass player to do a bass solo" is fine and "getting your friend the bass player to write your song" is not. It's hard to say where exactly that line is, and I'm fine with letting individual entrants deal with that themselves.

[Adam!]

EDIT: WOOO, 1000th POST!

Motherfucking reviews!
That's right, I said Motherfucking. It's not just for BLT anymore.

--- Grood ---
1. Abom - This has replaced Frankie's Brownie Points as my favorite song from Nur Ein so far. I listened to this like 80 times at work today. All streamed, because I hate your bandwidth. Spectacular melody and rad drumming. Everything else is good too.
2. Merisan - Why aren't you guys totally famous yet? Enjoy your well earned immunity. Also, this mix is warm and perfect.
3. Bovinity - I see you were unfettered by the challenge. Catchy and intricate, as always. I love the bell sounds and the possibly-unintentionally-thereminy-synth that comes in during the scientology riffing. I wish the piano rhythm changed up a bit. Vocals seem a bit shaky in places ("man" and the various "else"s). The fast vocals at the end are a nice change of pace. Solid Cow Ex.

--- Moh-kay ---
4. BLT - I'm not actually sure if I like this or not, but the horns and bass and drums all sound so killer. The melody is pretty darn great too. I don't like whatever reverb/delay is going on with the lead vocal: it obscures it too much.
5. Ross Durand - For some reason I always think this is the Thanks Glenny song until your vocals kick in. Must be the high-octave strings and the airy mix. That dulcimer sounds great. I kinda wish there was an [audible] kick drum in there somewhere to ground the low end a bit. I don't really like the cloud-of-lead-vocalists sound: I'd rather you boosted the best take and pulled down the doubling take[s] a bit. This song really feels like it's building to something powerful, but then it climaxes after only two minutes and leaves me kind of unsatisfied. No jokes, please.
6. Franky - Reminds me of several better frankie big face songs. Maybe I had high expectations after Brownie Points. I think I'm mostly biased against the sparse instrumentation; I'm not hot on the G&P genre. This song has a nice ebb and flow to it.

--- The ones I would apparently cut ---
7. T4tehFrizB (that's your L33T clan name) - I like your voice quite a bit: feels like a good indie-voice, sort of Animal Collective-y. This is another song where the loose doubling gives it a cloud-of-vocalists sound. I hate to be a production poser, but after-all that is what the P in Puce stands for ("production", not "poser"), but I couldn't really listen to this song. Sorry. The mix was painfully bright, despite the presence of a bass. The clipping was really distracting. The overall level is so consistent throughout the song that no parts stand out, giving it a homogeneous and fatiguing sound. Pot, kettle, black, etc. I might be putting you here partly because I'm scared of you guys.
8. Tex - Hmmm... not feeling this. The vocals are quite nice, especially once all the layers kick in, but the melody and story don't grip me. I like the bongo or conga or whatever loops, and the filter sweeps. But really, I was going to put you here regardless after the Savage Garden comment.
9. Paco - Oh paco, I hate to say it but I'm not into this song at all. I love the vocals from 1:35 - 2:05 and at the end, but otherwise I found them fairly grating. The snare programming is very nice, but all the other music is just too cheesy. I think you got hit by the challenge the hardest.

--- DQ'd or UnDQ'able ---
X. Bwells - I actually haven't listened to this song because it wasn't in the stream. OK, listening. That piano patch is nice. I've already mentioned my feelings about the G&P genre, but the playing and the vocals and the melody are really fantastic. It's too bad you couldn't get this finished: I'd like to hear the rest.
X. Puce - This was a chance to do a bunch of stuff I'm not going to be brave enough to do under normal circumstances. The challenge gave me an itchy glitchy finger, except I don't know how to do glitch so it came out all sideways. I liked the parts where I'm singing along to only-percussion. The vocals were basically a shitstorm in places (bits were recycled from a skirmish Plat and I did when the title was first announced; I never expected anyone else to hear them), so I tried my best to obscure them. The lyrics are pure garbage, just me linking together lines that sounded cool; I hope they mean something to you.

Puce- I was sure you were going to use a guitar this time just because you can.

Heh. I'm a dick, but not that much of a dick.

Goodbye immunity; I'll miss you.

[Paco Del Stinko]

I hate to say it but I'm not into this song at all

I'm just glad that you gave it a shot and were honest about it. I know I have no right to step up to the microphone, and/or certain other instruments, but I'm all that I have! I think I've done some pretty cool guitar free songs over the years, this just wasn't one of them. Thanks again, and for all the other comments as well -I love feedback, good or bad. I'm hoping to see you guys throw some serious punches in these upcoming rounds, though.

[Niveous]

The judges have made a decision......they have decided that they need another day to decide because this is a very strong round. results to come 24 hours from now.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Cool, I get to be part of the elite Nur Ein gang for another day.

[Billy's Little Trip]

BLT - I'm not actually sure if I like this or not, but the horns and bass and drums all sound so killer. The melody is pretty darn great too. I don't like whatever reverb/delay is going on with the lead vocal: it obscures it too much.

I'm still experimenting with vocal sound. I wish I could just hit on something I liked and stick with it. On this one I recorded the lead vox stereo with a mild reverb. Then copied the track and did the John Benjiman trick by moving one track slightly. Then panned each track slightly left and right until it thickened to taste.
After hearing it several times, I came to the conclusion that if I use this method of coping a vocal track and move one slightly, I should record the original in mono and less or no reverb. Just a thought.

[ken]

Yeah, don't record a mono signal in stereo.

Unless you are trying to give it a sense of space, like leaving a stereo mic in the center of the room and standing off to one side of it.

Ken

[Billy's Little Trip]

So you record your vocals mono Ken? I really like how they sound on the last AAD album you posted. That pretty much what I'm looking for, but maybe a touch rawer to fit my style.

[ken]

Of course, one voice, one mic. What I do a lot is record two mono tracks and blend them together, often autotuning the double and putting it lower in the mix.

Are you using a stereo mic?

Ken

[Billy's Little Trip]

No, just a regular SM58. But I run it through my PODXT Live and come out right and left stereo (2 cords) to my firebox, so I am recording a stereo track with reverb.

[bwell]

No, just a regular SM58. But I run it through my PODXT Live and come out right and left stereo (2 cords) to my firebox, so I am recording a stereo track with reverb.

Not sure if it would be convenient with your setup, but have you tried running the PODxt Live via USB yet? I would record the vocals through the mic hooked up directly to the firebox and then play around with reamping later on the PODxt if you really like those effects. It seems like keeping your chain as simple as possible from the mic to the disk initially would give you a slightly cleaner source to work with when adding effects later.

I also have a PODxt Live, but typically use it for guitars and bass only. I have an original Variax 500 guitar and the 700 and 705 basses which allow me to stay digital from the guitar to the computer. Everything I did for Nur Ein this time was on those basses but the guitars were a mix of Variax and my Tele (feels too good to pass up if I don't need a different sound). On my computer I almost always set the input from the PODxt Live to the clean signal and then apply effects later whether they be from the recording app or reamped back through the POD. I have yet to try processing vocals through it...and most likely won't unless I'm looking for a specific effect.

[erin.]

I really appreciate everyones reviews, good and bad.
I value what is shared by this group. It's been really challenging to commit to an ongoing project like this, and I have even more respect for those of you that contribute songs on a more regular basis.
I can understand why the judges need extra time on this one. It was such an interesting round regarding peoples styles and soft spots.
Great effort from everyone.
To those who get cut, you probably don't deserve to go...and this is why the judges are taking longer... (at least that is what I tell myself if Merisan is one of that group)

Thanks to Puce for keeping the bar high, even when he didn't have to.

Bewell's, too bad about the deadline. Very pretty song.

Abom: Cool arrangement. Excellent beats. Not sold on the vox, but not disliking them. Angsty.

BLT: Creative intro. Like the horns. Something about the chorus doesn't feel like the rest of this party of sound. The percussion is so rich and exciting!

TBV: So clever per usual I'm sure.

FBF: People like to compare you to David Bowie, and the likes, but I think deep down you would much rather be considered a Rufus Wainwright type.
A very thoughtful tune.

Me and Sam... Sam and I worked really hard on this one, I think the challenge kind of threw us a bit. I barely got to record my vox before my throat gave up on me. But I love Sam's keyboard skills just as much as his guitar playing..and I'm happy that we got the chance to be Merisan without the guitars.... though I can't imagine Sam ever allowing it again!

Paco: Paco, you surprise me very week with something different, I never know what to expect. There is an electronic vibe here that I'm not sure suits you, but doesn't obscure your songwriting style. Paco is still there, but is wearing all black instead of bold stripes.

Ross: Ah, the dulcimer. I would have liked you to have abandoned your strings all together for this challenge. Really top notch production. Your dulcimer sings. The intro reminds me of the band "Orleans", "Dance with me". When your harmonies kick in, the song really takes off.

Tex: What a great story. I love your illustrative lyrical style. There are some very creative beats happening too. Love the "Shake, Roll, Dive" part.

Glenny and the Frisby: I am smiling my biggest smile. Love this arrangement. Mandolin magic! This song is so bright. Frisby, your lyrics always impress me. Those are a lot of lyrics to sing.

I won't name favorites, as I have too much respect for all of you. This is the time to suggest forming an ultra-mega super duper group. A deca-group if you will.

[Billy's Little Trip]

No, just a regular SM58. But I run it through my PODXT Live and come out right and left stereo (2 cords) to my firebox, so I am recording a stereo track with reverb.

Not sure if it would be convenient with your setup, but have you tried running the PODxt Live via USB yet? I would record the vocals through the mic hooked up directly to the firebox and then play around with reamping later on the PODxt if you really like those effects. It seems like keeping your chain as simple as possible from the mic to the disk initially would give you a slightly cleaner source to work with when adding effects later.

I also have a PODxt Live, but typically use it for guitars and bass only. I have an original Variax 500 guitar and the 700 and 705 basses which allow me to stay digital from the guitar to the computer. Everything I did for Nur Ein this time was on those basses but the guitars were a mix of Variax and my Tele (feels too good to pass up if I don't need a different sound). On my computer I almost always set the input from the PODxt Live to the clean signal and then apply effects later whether they be from the recording app or reamped back through the POD. I have yet to try processing vocals through it...and most likely won't unless I'm looking for a specific effect.

This is great info. I love my XT live, but I've never tried the variax, but many express your opinion about them. I tried using the USB out at first, but I was having trouble and gave up on that. I'll have to get that straight one of these days. I use the POD for guitars and bass, I really like the clean line 6 channel for vox. But you're right and Ken basically said the same thing. Get the vox on the HD first, then alter them to taste. Thanks.

[Caravan Ray]

PS - What does "Come a Cropper" mean?

Fall over or fail at some venture.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/97150.html

[Caravan Ray]

The last thing you want from me is a Peter Gabriel comparison, so I'll just say great job. :

Peter Gabriel I will happily accept. But if Tex ever starts to sound like Phil Collins - please shoot him.

[Caravan Ray]

If a complaint - too long - but I see why you ended up there based on combanitorics.

Yes, combanitorics - that's it.

Cough ...maths nerd ...cough

[Ross]

Ross: ...I would have liked you to have abandoned your strings all together for this challenge.

Yes, I hear you. This was not an easy call for me (you know how I am about challenges). But in the end the song won out. Besides it was nice to be forced to spend some time with my dulcimer and the songwriting challenges it presents.