The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Our drummer has had his kit in my garage for the last year or so and this is a good sign of somebody who's not totally commited to their music I'm guessing (though I may be wrong, he is the man)

Anyway, I want to teach myself how to play them, hopefully really well, but this will take practice. I want 2 peices of advice:

1. Is there a particularly good approach to learning drums? Or would I be able to get away with trying to play songs I like over and over again and eventually get good.

2. Is there any way I can either:
a) mute the kit so it's not so loud? (I realise as I type this it may be the dumbest question I've ever asked - It's a goddamn drum kit)
b) simulate drumming without actually using it? Does air drumming work? If not I may ask my friends if I can set it up in they're basement and go round there every weekend (they have a studio setup, I'm sure they'd understand).

All advice is greatly appreciated!

1. If you learn songs over and over again, you will get good at those songs. If the songs are varied enough, it should translate into some type of skill as a drummer, but not something I, or for that matter, most serious drummers would define as "good at the drums". It really depends on what you mean by good.

Really, mastering anything lies in the details. Master a detail, master another.It seems to be generally accepted that practicing a wide variety of details in a skill with daily attention, striving for some definition of "good" or "perfection"; but understanding that this will occur with time is a more successful approach than working on only one aspect...like repertoire as you suggest.

Working only on repertoire will not teach good techinique either.

Keep in mind, if you input your data wrong, and practice recalling it wrong, it will never get "right" simply because you've inputed it wrong, so how would you even know if it was right or not??

If you want to get good, learn ANY detail properly, repeat it properly until it is easy. Now work on another detail.

As far as a particular way to "get good":

Practice at least 2 hours per day, divided up into these areas of study (the order can be tweaked as anyone sees fit, this is not an all inclusive list either) :

warm-ups -to physically prepare the body for motion, focus the mind

technique - how to sit, hold sticks, 4 basic drum strokes, other less utilized strokes, foot technique, tuning,

independence- work at the skill of each limb (all four) doing different things at the same time

rudiments- some would say the scales of stick drumming

dynamic control- the ability to play things quiet, medium and soft

tempo control - the ability to play something slow, medium and fast

reading- imprints the mind with drumming information differently allowing a cognitive approach, as well as the skill of reading

styles study- learning various different grooves and accompanying fills, like jazz, swing, blues, reggae, funk, fusion, rock, country, hard rock, latin, and any other that catch your fancy.

books- study different method books

fills and licks- learn specific licks and fills...

soloing- practice soloing over set numbers of bars, free solos, solo in a tune, solo over an ostinato, etc

improvising

material- an repertoire you are working on. practice breaking down specific sections to try an perfect your understanding, and playing the tune to a recording, and playing it correctly from memory without anyone else or a recording to reference.


..and finish your practice with "me" time where you do whatever it is that turns your crank and makes it fun.



2. If you stuff every drum with foam, tape the cymbals up so they dont' ring and hang blankets around them they'll sound like shit but be quieter.

b) no, air drumming provides no rebound control technique. I mean, does 'air running" make you a fast runner? heheh.


Practice pads are cheap, and work well enough for rebound control.


You could work your hands on a pad to develop hand technique, rudiments and dynamics and tempo control, that way all your kit time is spent on kit work.

For what it's worth, I've been learning to drum for a couple of months now, and here are my observations:

- Learning to play a beat wasn't too hard for me. Like, I can coordinate the kick, snare, hat, cymbals and toms in a variety of patterns that sound musical.

- BUT doing all of the above with a solid groove still eludes me. When Leaf says it comes down to detail, he ain't kidding. One kick hit in the verse of a song that's maybe a 16th beat late makes the whole thing sound amateurish and crappy. Ditto if the whole groove feels generally rushed or draggy. It's just really hard to get that fine-tuned precision going.

Leaf - I don't know if you have any specific advice for tightening up your timing, but I imagine it's some combination of practice, developing muscle strength, and probably innate talent/soul that each of us is or is not born with.

That's awesome. thanks a lot man.

I'm gonna have to go hardcore on this. I really wanna do it. I think independence will be my biggest problem, but I get what you're saying about the overall approach, and it's definitely not good to learn technique wrong.

Thanks again, I will be back here soon I imagine.

melvin wrote:I don't know if you have any specific advice for tightening up your timing, but I imagine it's some combination of practice, developing muscle strength, and probably innate talent/soul that each of us is or is not born with.

Practice to a metronome. It is the only way. Practice super slow, super fast, and everywhere in between.

Ken

ken wrote:

melvin wrote:I don't know if you have any specific advice for tightening up your timing, but I imagine it's some combination of practice, developing muscle strength, and probably innate talent/soul that each of us is or is not born with.

Practice to a metronome. It is the only way. Practice super slow, super fast, and everywhere in between.

Ken

Ditto.

I am thankful for this thread. Any book recommendations?

Drumming is just hitting things with a stick. There is no real skill involved. Anyone can do it, you don't need to learn it.

Re. the noise thing - I used to have a drummer who had big rubber pads he put on his drums and cymbals to keep them quiet. If only someone would make a big rubber pad we could put over drummers - then everyone would have be happy.

Caravan Ray wrote:Drumming is just hitting things with a stick. There is no real skill involved. Anyone can do it, you don't need to learn it.

Re. the noise thing - I used to have a drummer who had big rubber pads he put on his drums and cymbals to keep them quiet. If only someone would make a big rubber pad we could put over drummers - then everyone would have be happy.

...oh, almost forgot....

ken wrote:Practice to a metronome. It is the only way. Practice super slow, super fast, and everywhere in between.

I hated this advice for many years, but hey - it works! As a beginner though, I'd say, practice along with some music - sit down and try to figure out what the drummer is doing - Sweet Home Alabama was the first song I did this with (it's simple for drums, and pretty easy to figure out exactly what the drummer's doing).

Here's the best advice I can give -

Don't learn one beat and be content. Learn as many as you can, experiment with what you know how to do. Many drummers get stuck in a rut and only play a certain beat, and after a month of playing the same beat, they figure they've mastered the drums and get bored. Keep trying new things, and practice practice practice!

It's a lot of fun to learn the drums, and I hope you have a good time figuring them out.

Lessons don't hurt either.


As for Jim's question -

jimtyrrell wrote:I am thankful for this thread. Any book recommendations?

The first drumming book I got was 'Basic Drumming (revised edition)' by Joel Rothman. It's jam-packed of all kinds of things to learn, like rudiments, accents, sticking patterns, rock/jazz/latin/disco drumming - I'd recommend it to anybody.

Ive never told anyone this, but I learned good timing on drums from a drum machine. I had been banging around on a kit for quite some time, but my timing wasn't great. I was even a drummer for a band with some old friends at one point. I was already using a drum machine for writing, so I would program cool loops, then run the loop and play to it. Shortly after I started doing this, I sat in on drums for the band that I used to play drums for, and they were amazed at how tight I became.

I'm a terrible drummer, but before I moved to this apartment I'm stuck in now I had a little kit set up in my house, and I was starting to learn to play. How I miss having those drums around!

It's not a bad idea to get some fun stuff like brushes and mallets to play with. Brushes help with the "loud" thing, and feel totally different than sticks. Mallets feel really good and give a nice thick "whump" to your playing.

Modern Drummer's Greatest Drum Books

#1
Stick Control - George Lawrence Stone

#2
Ted Reed - Syncopation for the Modern Drummer
With these kinda ideas applied:
http://www.sezyum.com/dersbir_syncopation.html
(there are many more systems to apply to this book out there)

Not sure what number, but a great book, fun too:

Advanced Funk Studies - Rick Latham

Not sure what number, but it will crush your soul, in a good way:

The New Breed - Gary Chester

Always good:

40 Rudiments

Stick Control is a classic, but not a drumset book. It is a good book to practice at home in your bedroom. Work with a metronome and play on your pillow. The lack of stick rebound makes it a great workout.

Ken

Drum everywhere. Even if you're not in front of them, you still have your hands and feet attached and there's music playing somewhere. Get your right foot and left hand going along with whatever groove you're hearing. The 4 limbs doing different rhythms is still what kills me, damnit. 2 limbs sure, no prob. But for some reason, my feet and hands want to do the same thing. Wasted youth playing jazz & latin percussion, but never drumset, man

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=445364
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=445362
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=445363

These rock.

anti-m wrote:I'm a terrible drummer, but before I moved to this apartment I'm stuck in now I had a little kit set up in my house, and I was starting to learn to play. How I miss having those drums around!

It's not a bad idea to get some fun stuff like brushes and mallets to play with. Brushes help with the "loud" thing, and feel totally different than sticks. Mallets feel really good and give a nice thick "whump" to your playing.

I don't know if you've ever considered an electronic kit, but they are great fun and you can play through headphones, so no one can hear. The rebound isn't the same, but they are great for recording, and real kit timing and rudiment practice. They are also great for small coffee house type gigs because you have total volume control. I wish I still had my E drums because the time I have to play my acoustic kit doesn't jive with my household. For some reason my wife gets pissed off when I'm playing along to Helmet at 11:30PM. Go figure. 8)

Billy's Little Trip wrote: I don't know if you've ever considered an electronic kit, but they are great fun and you can play through headphones, so no one can hear. The rebound isn't the same, but they are great for recording, and real kit timing and rudiment practice. They are also great for small coffee house type gigs because you have total volume control. I wish I still had my E drums because the time I have to play my acoustic kit doesn't jive with my household. For some reason my wife gets pissed off when I'm playing along to Helmet at 11:30PM. Go figure. 8)

Hmmm... yes, perhaps I should make e-drums an addition to my "gadget wishlist!" I don't usually get too electronics obsessed... but drums would sure be nice.

Leaf wrote:#2
Ted Reed - Syncopation for the Modern Drummer

I've got that one! That was the second book I picked up during my first year of drumming.

anti-m wrote:Hmmm... yes, perhaps I should make e-drums an addition to my "gadget wishlist!" I don't usually get too electronics obsessed... but drums would sure be nice.

If you're willing to spend upwards of $10 000, you can get a good one! Honestly, I hate edrums/vdrums (except for the aforementioned $10 000 set I played at AXE music), but they are convenient in places where you need to be quiet, so don't mind me.

Do you have any of the independence exercises that go with it? (I don't know why they aren't ever published!)


Here's a few:

(pages 29 - 34 depending on what edition you have, but these readings should start after the two mixed exercises that around pag3 28 or 30 ish... )

anyway:

#1.
Right hand plays 8ths
Left hand reads page
right foot - quarters
feet play "latin pattern" which is kick on beat 1, hihat with foot on beat 2, bass drum on the "and" of 2 and beat 3, hihat w/f on beat 4, bass drum on "and" of beat 4, repeat... boom chik ba-boom chik- ba boom etc. I'll call this "latin foot pattern"

#2 right hand reads page
lerft hand plays quarter note cross stick
latin foot pattern

#3 right hand 8ths
left hand x-stick quarters
right foot reads page
left foot plays 2& 4

#4 right hand 8ths
left hand x-stick quarters
right foot - tacet (silent)
left foot reads page


#5 right hand plays swing pattern
left hand reads page (swing the 8ths)
right foot plays quarters
left foot plays 2&4

#6 right hand reads page (swing the 8ths)
left hand x-stick
right foot plays quarters
left foot plays 2&4

#7 right hand plays swing pattern
left hand plays x-stick quarters
right foot reads page
left foot plays 2& 4

# 8 right hand swing
left hand x-stick quarters
right foot quarters
left foot reads page (swing the 8ths!)



These are independence patterns are freakin gold. There's more, far more complicated ones, but these will give most people the ability to have a far superior degree of independence than someone who sits around playing random beats.

jolly roger wrote:

Leaf wrote:#2
Ted Reed - Syncopation for the Modern Drummer

I've got that one! That was the second book I picked up during my first year of drumming.

anti-m wrote:Hmmm... yes, perhaps I should make e-drums an addition to my "gadget wishlist!" I don't usually get too electronics obsessed... but drums would sure be nice.

If you're willing to spend upwards of $10 000, you can get a good one! Honestly, I hate edrums/vdrums (except for the aforementioned $10 000 set I played at AXE music), but they are convenient in places where you need to be quiet, so don't mind me.

Ahh, I bought my Alesis DM5 kit used for 300 bux and it was sweet. Best part was when I'd start getting crazy on it and it would fall over and do this amazing little drum solo by itself and start to smoke. Wouldn't you know it, it wasn't recording when that happened. I could never quite reproduce it. Good times......good ef'n times.

Billy's Little Trip wrote:Ahh, I bought my Alesis DM5 kit used for 300 bux and it was sweet. Best part was when I'd start getting crazy on it and it would fall over and do this amazing little drum solo by itself and start to smoke. Wouldn't you know it, it wasn't recording when that happened. I could never quite reproduce it. Good times......good ef'n times.

Or every time you do a straight RLRLRLRL drumroll and it makes it sound like you're doing a complicated pattern since it doesn't pick up every hit ... I love vdrums!

I've been teaching myself drums for the last year myself. Nothing good has come of it except now I don't sound as bad behind a drum set than I used to.

Go to your local guitar center / big commercial music store: They have rubber things that fit on top of the heads of the snare/toms and rubber additions for deadening the cymbals too. It'll sound like hell, but allows you to PRACTICE... and it's just like weights on the legs when you take them off... all of a sudden you move and feel like the wind.