The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Hey guys, what's up?

I just entered my first song onto songfight for the "how much will you give me" topic. It was more to try it out and enter since my song is completely horrible. It was written and recorded in about 10 minutes, using a 50$ MP3 player to record a 1996 casio keyboard.

I'm going to get some recording gear for christmas, so hopefully I'll be able to put together some actual songs (with actual guitars!)

That puts you ahead of half the folks here

Welcome! Even if it's a total lo-fi disaster, it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd say it's better make a big entrance with a good song, but hey, we're used to wading through crap, though you wouldn't know it from the reviews. Despite what you say here, or in the prefight thread, people will still give you shit about your production values if they're lacking. I was wondering, did you make a vocal song, or is it just a solo keyboard piece? Also, will you be competing under the same name you used to register your forum account? If not, let me know the artist name you used, or put it in your signature. It seems that a lot of us here don't seem to get that idea.

You do not get a pass because you have cheap equipment.
You do not get a pass because you couldn't be bothered to take more than 10 minutes to make your song.

jb wrote:You do not get a pass because you have cheap equipment.
You do not get a pass because you couldn't be bothered to take more than 10 minutes to make your song.

That's pretty harsh. At least you've already had your first taste of SongFight's less polite side.

Welcome to Songfight!

Can we have a "how to present your song to an audience" forum? It ain't special 'cause you made it, sir or madam. It's special if it moves someone who doesn't know who you are.

Saying "Hi! Here's a shit sandwich, and I wouldn't eat it myself, but you gotta give me credit for making it 'cause, you know, I did make it after all" can be interpreted as a big ol' F.U. to the people who give half a damn about what they do.

And knowing's half the battle. Don't make excuses. Don't be an asshat. If you don't like it, don't inflict it on anyone else. Grrr.

Lord of Oats wrote:Welcome! Even if it's a total lo-fi disaster, it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd say it's better make a big entrance with a good song, but hey, we're used to wading through crap, though you wouldn't know it from the reviews. Despite what you say here, or in the prefight thread, people will still give you shit about your production values if they're lacking. I was wondering, did you make a vocal song, or is it just a solo keyboard piece? Also, will you be competing under the same name you used to register your forum account? If not, let me know the artist name you used, or put it in your signature. It seems that a lot of us here don't seem to get that idea.

yeah it's under the same name, and it does have vocals.

and for everyone already calling me out. . . I do plan on making some good music. I just wanted to use this one to see how the format of this whole thing works out

JB was hardly harsh at all, and I'm sure that if Mr. Monday submits poop he'll hear about it. Welcome aboard, Mr. Monday. Good luck and have fun.

Hello Blue Monday wrote:and for everyone already calling me out. . . I do plan on making some good music. I just wanted to use this one to see how the format of this whole thing works out

Well, when you do get to understand how the whole thing works out, and you start to actually care about the work you submit, and you begin to despair that no-one is reviewing the songs, know that you were part of the problem.

jb wrote:You do not get a pass because you have cheap equipment.
You do not get a pass because you couldn't be bothered to take more than 10 minutes to make your song.

I'm not clear on exactly what "get a pass" means in this context.

Um...I'm going to try to weigh in again without pissing everyone off. It probably won't work. I'm kind of in the middle here. I certainly don't want to encourage anyone to submit lo-fi chunks of, to quote the author, "horrible." There's already quite enough of that floating around here. Although I do enjoy terrible music when it's self-aware and takes a humorous approach. But apparently, no one else here is into that, or my song last week wouldn't have taken so much shit (I guess satire was battling with try to make a good song anyway, and it resulted in mutually assured destruction. ). In any case, that doesn't sound like what we have here. We could potentially have a good song with poor production values. Artists are often their own worst critics. Then again, he doesn't come off sounding like he tried very hard, which is disappointing, and possibly maybe insulting to the people who do put a lot into their work. That said, you were all given fair warning. You can skip it if you want to. Even if this song is a gigantic suckfest, I know in advance not to expect anything. I prefer someone who's upfront about their bad music to someone who never shows up on the forum and submits shithouse pieces from the shadows. If you're actually going to participate in the SF community, I think you should be given a little more credit than the acts that seem to have no mission but to dirty up our pool of songs. I wouldn't show up and say "Hello, I hope you like shit sandwich," myself, but this fellow is new, and obviously doesn't understand this place yet, and has stated an intention to create good music...someday. IMO, don't submit any more shit. Obviously, it just pisses everyone off. To every one frustrated by it, try not to be. Calm down. Life's alright. We'll all float on okay. Didn't anyone listen to MC Eric B's song this week? You don't have to listen to anything more than once. If you think it's an uninspired work of shit, don't review it. Or, you know, write a nasty review! That's even more fun! But if it sounds like an earnest effort, try to help out. This doesn't necessarily sound like an earnest effort, so even me with my incredibly populist view of art isn't going to hold it against anyone who skips this one altogether. With all this hype, I'm pretty eager to hear it myself, now. Especially if I can trash it. Although after this week's fight, it will get some points just for having words. In any case, do whatever makes you happy, and don't let anyone else's actions get to you. That's the important thing for everybody to take from this.

Lord of Oats wrote:We could potentially have a good song with poor production values.

Really. He admittedly wrote AND recorded it in ten minutes. Let's have a breakdown of this artistic process:

• Minute 1 - Read title from SongFight web page.
• Minute 2 - Write lyrics.
• Minute 3 - Write music.
• Minute 4 - Connect Casio to MP3 player.
• Minute 5 - Practice Czerny warm-up exercises.
• Minute 6 - Choose most appropriate 1996 Casio preset.
• Minutes 7-9 - Record song directly to MP3-encoded file.
• Minute 10 - Post to the Introductions forum.

The reason why people get upset about this stuff is that there are 30+ entries every week and many of them suck. A good rule of thumb: if you don't like your own song, don't post it to the competition. If you really want feedback, post it to the forum and let people listen to it.

And by the way, the more crap that makes it into the weekly fight, the more people think it's okay to post crap. And that's bad.

frankie big face wrote:• Minute 5 - Practice Czerny warm-up exercises.

This is more important than people seem to think! If you injure your preset-selecting finger due to improper warmups you darn well won't be rockin' out next week. This is why I am so strongly against songs that are written and recorded in nine minutes.

Lord of Oats wrote:

jb wrote:You do not get a pass because you have cheap equipment.
You do not get a pass because you couldn't be bothered to take more than 10 minutes to make your song.

I'm not clear on exactly what "get a pass" means in this context.

"Get a pass" means "get excused from making something of quality".

frankie big face wrote: • Minute 1 - Read title from SongFight web page.
• Minute 2 - Write lyrics.
• Minute 3 - Write music.
• Minute 4 - Connect Casio to MP3 player.
• Minute 5 - Practice Czerny warm-up exercises.
• Minute 6 - Choose most appropriate 1996 Casio preset.
• Minutes 7-9 - Record song directly to MP3-encoded file.
• Minute 10 - Post to the Introductions forum.

Damn, that came out to EXACTLY 10 minutes. You couldn't have gotten any closer if you tried.

erik wrote:

Lord of Oats wrote:

jb wrote:You do not get a pass because you have cheap equipment.
You do not get a pass because you couldn't be bothered to take more than 10 minutes to make your song.

I'm not clear on exactly what "get a pass" means in this context.

"Get a pass" means "get excused from making something of quality".

Well, that's a little disappointing. I was hoping maybe JB was just going to bonk him out of the fight, i.e., get a pass = be allowed to compete.

No excuses. You either suck or you don't, no matter what your situation.

You're <i>allowed</i> to take only 10 minutes to make your song, and you're <i>allowed</i> to be poor and have shitty equipment.

You're even allowed to call out those facts as excuses for why your songs/recordings are terrible. But you're going to get a whole lot of shit, and deservedly so, if you do.

Listeners don't cut songfighters any slack. What matters in the end isn't whether the listener pats you on that back and says "oh well, that wasn't bad for ten minutes, yelling into a pair of headphones, and beating on a pot."

What matters is whether the listener clicks stop before your song is over.

What matters is whether the listener clicks PLAY more than once.

Excuses are annoying and you'll get yelled at for them. But what's above is the bottom line; don't fool yourself that it's not.

Isn't this in the songfight excuse thread somewhere?

JB

jb wrote:"oh well, that wasn't bad for ten minutes, yelling into a pair of headphones, and beating on a pot."

I've got to try that one of these weeks! I think beating on a pot is just what my songs have been missing! [Edit: I guess you can yell into headphones, and it works. Cool.]

Oh, I'm sorry. That part just made me laugh hysterically. I feel like pot-beating might actually be a step up from some of what we've got here. Ultimately, I think you're right on all these points. People only hear what they hear, and can't be expected to consider your personal circumstances. That said, most of the time someone makes a lo-fi recording, they're aware of it, and giving them shit probably isn't going to make their equipment any nicer. But it may very well get them to either try harder, or leave. Not putting effort into songwriting is the real crime, I think. Not bad production values. I recall, in the Memphis fight, 4 a.m. cigarette not taking half the shit Blues Train did, at least in my reviews, because they were both big disasters, but the former almost had a decent song hidden under his nightmarish feat of audio engineering. This fellow seems guilty of both crimes, so if we want to stone him to death or whatever, I'm not necessarily objecting just yet. But I'd like to hear his piece before I make the final judgment.

oats can you please try to get your message out with fewer words? just for me because I'm important.

Lord of Oats wrote:

jb wrote:"oh well, that wasn't bad for ten minutes, yelling into a pair of headphones, and beating on a pot."

I've got to try that one of these weeks! I think beating on a pot is just what my songs have been missing! [Edit: I guess you can yell into headphones, and it works. Cool.]

Oh, I'm sorry. That part just made me laugh hysterically. I feel like pot-beating might actually be a step up from some of what we've got here. Ultimately, I think you're right on all these points. People only hear what they hear, and can't be expected to consider your personal circumstances. That said, most of the time someone makes a lo-fi recording, they're aware of it, and giving them shit probably isn't going to make their equipment any nicer. But it may very well get them to either try harder, or leave. Not putting effort into songwriting is the real crime, I think. Not bad production values. I recall, in the Memphis fight, 4 a.m. cigarette not taking half the shit Blues Train did, at least in my reviews, because they were both big disasters, but the former almost had a decent song hidden under his nightmarish feat of audio engineering. This fellow seems guilty of both crimes, so if we want to stone him to death or whatever, I'm not necessarily objecting just yet. But I'd like to hear his piece before I make the final judgment.

not me. i won't be listening to this one.

Can't we all just get along?

jolly roger wrote: Can't we all just get along?

This is not Song Love!

Welcome Hello Blue Monday. I think your name is hilarious, seeing as the Songfight NY show is at a place called Goodbye Blue Monday. Are you a Vonnegut fan?