The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Okay, first of all, here is the recently revised list of the top 100 greatest [American] films of all time according to the <a href="http://www.afi.com/">American Film Institute:</a>

1 CITIZEN KANE
2 THE GODFATHER
3 CASABLANCA
4 RAGING BULL
5 SINGIN' IN THE RAIN
6 GONE WITH THE WIND
7 LAWRENCE OF ARABIA
8 SCHINDLER'S LIST
9 VERTIGO
10 THE WIZARD OF OZ
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like it Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. The Extra Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather Part II
33. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance
50. Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. M*A*S*H
55. North By Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing Up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

That list spurred a website to create <a href="http://dailyfilmdose.blogspot.com/2007/ ... html">"the Fanboy 100"</a>.

Here's the Fanboy 100

1. The Godfather
2. Psycho
3. Pulp Fiction
4. Casablanca
5. Citizen Kane
6. Schindler's List
7. Goodfellas
8. Apocalypse Now
9. Dr. Strangelove: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
10. Star Wars
11. Raiders of the Lost Ark
12. The Godfather Part II
13. Taxi Driver
14. Jaws
15. The Shawshank Redemption
16. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
17. Silence of the Lambs
18. A Clockwork Orange
19. Rear Window
20. The Wizard of Oz
21. Empire Strikes Back
22. E.T. The Extra Terrestrial
23. Chinatown
24. 2001: A Space Odyssey
25. Raging Bull
26. To Kill a Mockingbird
27. The Graduate
28. It's a Wonderful Life
29. Fight Club
30. Vertigo
31. Fargo
32. Gone With the Wind
33. North by Northwest
34. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
35. Lawrence of Arabia
36. The Shining
37. Annie Hall
38. Back to the Future
39. Singin' In the Rain
40. Sunset Blvd.
41. 12 Angry Men
42. The Matrix
43. Saving Private Ryan
44. Blade Runner
45. The Lord of The Rings: The Return Of The King
46. Alien
47. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
48. Some Like It Hot
49. American Beauty
50. Forrest Gump
51. On The Waterfront
52. L.A. Confidential
53. Memento
54. The Exorcist
55. Die Hard
56. Unforgiven
57. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
58. Rocky
59. The Bridge on the River Kwai
60. King Kong
61. The Usual Suspects
62. The Maltese Falcon
63. Double Indemnity
64. Groundhog Day
65. Jurassic Park
66. Bonnie and Clyde
67. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
68. Amadeus
69. Toy Story
70. A Streetcar Named Desire
71. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
72. Treasure of the Sierra Madre
73. The Third Man
74. Rebel Without A Cause
75. Stand By Me
76. Touch of Evil
77. Dog Day Afternoon
78. Ben-Hur
79. Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
80. The Deer Hunter
81. Do the Right Thing
82. Close Encounters of the Third Kind
83. This Is Spinal Tap
84. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
85. Platoon
86. Braveheart
87. Network
88. Duck Soup
89. The Sixth Sense
90. The Sound Of Music
91. Blazing Saddles
92. Requiem for a Dream
93. Ghostbusters
94. The Manchurian Candidate
95. All About Eve
96. Being John Malkovich
97. Titanic
98. West Side Story
99. Airplane
100. It Happened One Night

In both lists, I kept recognizing movie titles that I have heard of, but not seen. So I recently watched "Citizen Kane" and "Dr. Strangelove" as a result of reading these lists.

I have STILL only seen 21 of the films from the AFI list, and 43 from the Fanboy collection. I intend to see more.

Thoughts on the lists or any of the movies contained within them?

ROCK!

Glenn Case

Casablanca should be number 1. I always found Citizen Kane to be incredibly boring.

This is a good list, although there are some odd choices as well. After some hasty consideration... (and considering the list needs to be American movies) I'd think about subbing out some of the "less good" entries for the following:

"Classic" films:
Touch of Evil
Stairway to Heaven
The 3rd Man
The Cameraman (Buster Keaton)
Breakfast @Tiffany's (In spite of the godawful racism)

"Sci-fi" films:
Brazil
The Matrix
12 Monkeys
Starwars
The Iron Giant

"Other" films:
Princess Bride
Schizopolis
Donnie Darko
Blood Simple
Office Space
Pee Wee's Big Adventure

anti-m wrote: Starwars

That one actually made it on to both lists. It's #13 on the AFI list, and #10 on the fanboy list.

The Empire Strikes Back even made it to #21 on the fanboy list, but didn't crack the AFI top 100.

ROCK!

Glenn Case

The ABC did a show a year or so ago where they got average punters to vote for their favourite film. The list is here:

http://www.abc.net.au/myfavouritefilm/top100.htm

1-10
1. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy
2. Amelie
3. Blade Runner
4. The Shawshank Redemption
5. Donnie Darko
6. Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope
7. Pulp Fiction
8. The Princess Bride
9. Gone With The Wind
10. Fight Club

11-20
11. The Sound of Music
12. To Kill A Mockingbird
13. 2001: A Space Odyssey
14. Casablanca
15. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
16. American Beauty
17. Doctor Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
18. Monty Python's Life of Brian
19. Lawrence Of Arabia
20. Apocalypse Now

21-30
21. Cinema Paradiso
22. Doctor Zhivago
23. The Matrix
24. The Castle
25. Singin' in the Rain
26. A Clockwork Orange
27. The Blues Brothers
28. Withnail and I
29. Life is Beautiful
30. The Godfather

31-40
31. Moulin Rouge
32. Some Like it Hot
33. Lost in Translation
34. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
35. Local Hero
36. The Third Man
37. Brazil
38. Serenity
39. Breakfast at Tiffany's
40. A Room with a View

41-50
41. The Rocky Horror Picture Show
42. Dead Poets Society
43. Harold and Maude
44. The Big Lebowski
45. The Wizard of Oz
46. Out Of Africa
47. Picnic at Hanging Rock
48. The Usual Suspects
49. Cabaret
50. Forrest Gump

51-60
51. Monty Python and the Holy Grail
52. The Piano
53. Pirates of the Carribbean - The Curse of the Black Pearl
54. Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back
55. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
56. The City of Lost Children
57. The African Queen
58. Love Actually
59. Strictly Ballroom
60. Wings of Desire

61-70
61. Raiders of the Lost Ark
62. Babette's Feast
63. The Fifth Element
64. Spirited Away
65. Aliens
66. It's a Wonderful Life
67. Napoleon Dynamite
68. Rear Window
69. Romeo And Juliet
70. Dirty Dancing

71-80
71. Kill Bill: Vol. 1
72. The Good, The Bad and the Ugly
73. Trainspotting
74. Muriel's Wedding
75. When Harry Met Sally
76. The Great Escape
77. Ferris Bueller's Day Off
78. Gallipoli
79. Lantana
80. Garden State

81-90
81. Sin City
82. Chariots of Fire
83. The English Patient
84. This is Spinal Tap
85. Chocolat
86. Fargo
87. Look Both Ways
88. Goodfellas
89. Alien
90. Grease

91-100
91. All About Eve
92. Citizen Kane
93. Stand By Me
94. Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
95. Mulholland Drive
96. Back to the Future
97. High Fidelity
98. The Thin Red Line
99. Being John Malkovich
100. Dead Man

GlennCase wrote:

anti-m wrote: Starwars

That one actually made it on to both lists.

Oops! Did I mention my consideration was hasty?

©aravan®ay wrote:The ABC did a show a year or so ago where they got average punters to vote for their favourite film. The list is here:

http://www.abc.net.au/myfavouritefilm/top100.htm

Yes, if I could vote un-American, I'd have a great number to add to the AFI list!

anti-m wrote: Breakfast @Tiffany's (In spite of the godawful racism)
Brazil
Princess Bride
Donnie Darko

You'll be pleased they are in the Aus. list - The Princess Bride even making a thoroughly deserved 8th place! And Donny Darko at 5 (though personally I didn't think much of that one). Brazil (#37) is also another all-time favourite of mine.

Oh yeah! Blue Velvet should be on that AFI list.

And for Godsake take Forrest Gump off!

Who the fuck voted for Donnie Darko?

anti-m wrote: And for Godsake take Forrest Gump off!

absolutely

fodroy wrote:Who the fuck voted for Donnie Darko?

Me!

I didn't like the director's cut though.

Yeah, that AFI list is usually off for me. I have seen 37 from the new list.
For fun I checked the other two, and I have seen 58 on both of them. Funny that they're the same number, but different movies.
Obviously I agree more with fanboys or the average Australian than the critics. I think a large part of that is the addition of science fiction and comedies to those lists.
-bill

Where's Rambo?

Yeah, I've got to second (or third, or ...) the call for Brazil. I'd also have to add Audition and Ichi The Killer, but I guess I'm a bit of a Miike fanboy. And for fuck's sake get Titanic off that list!

I wonder if the AFI ranking is just based on watching each movie, with no consideration to context/history/etc., or if the raters take into account the significance/impact/etc. of the films in cultural and film history?

Lunkhead wrote:I wonder if the AFI ranking is just based on watching each movie, with no consideration to context/history/etc., or if the raters take into account the significance/impact/etc. of the films in cultural and film history?

My understanding is that they ABSOLUTELY take the significance/impact/etc into account. It explains why Snow White and the Seven Dwarves and Toy Story are the only animated films on the list.

<b>EDIT: Just found the criteria.</b>

"<i>AFI asks jurors to consider the following in their selection process:

<b>CRITERIA</b>

<b>FEATURE-LENGTH FICTION FILM</b>
Narrative format, typically over 60 minutes in length

<b>AMERICAN FILM</b>
Motion picture with significant creative and/or production elements from the United States

<b>CRITICAL RECOGNITION</b>
Formal commendation in print, television and digital media.

<b>MAJOR AWARD WINNER</b>
Recognition from competitive events including awards from peer groups, critics, guilds and major film festivals.

<b>POPULARITY OVER TIME</b>
Including success at the box office, television and cable airings, and DVD/VHS sales and rentals.

<b>HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE</b>
A film's mark on the history of the moving image through visionary narrative devices, technical innovation, or other groundbreaking achievements.

<b>CULTURAL IMPACT</b>
A film's mark on American society in the matters of style and substance"</i>

ROCK!

Glenn Case

GlennCase wrote: 50. Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

What a fucking joke.

I've seen 33 of the films listed by AFI and 58 on the fanboy list.

It's important to note that this is not supposed to be a list of the greatest films ever, but the greatest AMERICAN films ever. So you're not likely to see any Miike on the list, obscurity.

Edit: I guess Glenn found the relevant info while I was writing this.

jute gyte wrote: It's important to note that this is not supposed to be a list of the greatest films ever, but the greatest AMERICAN films ever.

Very good point. Title of the thread edited to reflect this truth.

ROCK!

Glenn Case

jute gyte wrote:a list of the greatest films ever, but the greatest AMERICAN films ever.

That's what I meant when I said I'd vote up some "un-american" films if I could.

Although, considering my proclivities, I could see how this could be misconstrued.

I've seen 64 on the AFI list and 68 on the Fanboy list.


Steve

sdürand wrote:I've seen 64 on the AFI list and 68 on the Fanboy list.

I've seen 60 on the AFI list and 80 on the Fanboy list.
And 68 on the ABC list