The Song Fight Bulletin Board

erik wrote:

Lord of Oats wrote:He makes a good point, though. Towel head isn't racist; anyone can wear a towel.

Anyone can jockey a camel. Anyone can chuck a spear. Anyone can get their back wet. Start another thread if you want to illogically defend racial slurs.

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I was asked to, I know a lot of people don't want so much off-topicity, and I suppose there's a lot to say here.

Here are some thoughts.

I'm not racist. I don't walk around spewing out this sort of garbage. He's probably a racist, but towel head is not intrinsically racist. It's hardly a slur. It's a silly way to look at an adaptation to climate. It really has very little to do with race, though, because it's such a widespread practice in places outside the West. Xenophobic and jingoistic? Sure. Racist? Not really. Basically, people using it generally aren't educated enough to properly be racist. But if I were to say it, which I very likely wouldn't, as it would imply that I were some bigoted American retard, I certainly wouldn't mean it the same way as they would. There's a big difference between me going, "Hehe, isn't it funny how other peoples' cultures are different?" and these folks that are all, "Fuck those motherfuckers blowing up our buildings and shit." Not that the people who are blowing up our buildings don't deserved to be fucked. The problem is when you say that, and you somehow mean half the globe. I suppose ignorance is a large contributing factor, as always.

I usually get upset when I hear these kinds of things, myself. But it's all in how you mean it. Do I question the intent of the fellow making the argument? Yes. But it doesn't make his argument less valid. Towel head isn't racist. It's an ignorant cry for help. Headwear is such a ridiculous thing to make fun of, it shouldn't be offensive. If nothing else, it sounds cool. It's got a nice ring to it. I love hats of any kind. I have the utmost respect for turbans. I wish I had one. But let's be realistic. It is a towel. I don't see the problem there. I love towels. Shouting, "It's not a towel!" forty fricking times makes you sound like a dumb whore. I find interrupting an artist at work a lot more disrespectful than using generalized, non-vulgar gestures to describe people. Assaulting an artist at work, no matter how bad he is at what he does, or how much you dislike him as a person, takes it a step further.

Towel head is a neutral thing, despite what I think about it sounding cool. It's meant negatively, but it's really ridiculous that it can be used that way. Camel-jockey is even worse. I wish I could ride camels. In fact, I hope to, someday. It should be a point of pride, not an insult. But I guess I can't expect most of the populace to have the same respect for Arab culture that I do. I always thought spear-chucker was a little beyond ridiculous, and I suppose the other ones are, too, if we're trying to use any of them to refer to participants in mainstream American society. I guess the turban is the only thing that really holds up, and probably only for Sikhs, who are required to wear it as a religious thing, and, well, they're not the same thing as Arab Muslims, are they? Yeah, I don't know, as if everything from the Arabian peninsula to the Indian subcontinent were just one big mass of terrorist lunatics. What a bunch of fucking idiots we are. I guess I can see why we get upset with each other like this.

But to sum up. Asshole guy has a point, but he really looks like an idiot when all he can say is, "CUNT!" So, he's probably an idiot. Hecklers need to lay off, especially such self-righteous ones. And storming the stage?! People should fucking calm down. Basically, everyone should strive to have more respect for others. A lack of respect for people, their cultures, and their opinions is responsible for all of the problems in the video, which are further aggravated by an all-around failure to think critically.

If millions of people find a phrase insulting, then you should probably consider the possibility that it is insulting. You may, if you wish, insult an entire culture on the basis of race and then call it something other than racism, but be well aware that many will disagree with your choice of term.

From a purely practical standpoint (and one of personal safety in some situations), it is not a good idea to tell someone "you're a wetback and that's cool with me" or "you're a towelhead and I think wearing a turban is a swell fashion statement." If you do think that sort of thing, you would be wise to keep such thoughts private.

Lord of Oats wrote:stuff

Wow, LOA, you construct an argument the way I play pick-up-sticks.

I guess I'm just naive ... what is towel head? A turban?

man, you wrote all that bullshit and you could have been reviewing songs?

get your priorities in order.

Reïst wrote:I guess I'm just naive ... what is towel head? A turban?

I'm guessing that your browser blocks google... (?)

bz£ wrote:If millions of people find a phrase insulting, then you should probably consider the possibility that it is insulting. You may, if you wish, insult an entire culture on the basis of race and then call it something other than racism, but be well aware that many will disagree with your choice of term.

Yeah, and on the flip side of that, words are defined by usage. This particular turn of phrase is usually used by assholes, often xenophobic or straight-up racist ones.

Lord of Oats wrote:Do I question the intent of the fellow making the argument? Yes. But it doesn't make his argument less valid. Towel head isn't racist. It's an ignorant cry for help. Headwear is such a ridiculous thing to make fun of, it shouldn't be offensive.

The word is not used to poke fun at the hat choices that people make, it's used to insult and belittle entire cultures that wear turbans. Not just their hats, but everything about them. That's how racial slurs work. To say that something shouldn't be offensive because it's a phrase made up of innocent words shows a great amount of ignorance on how language works.

It's like how "wankel rotary engine" sounds rude, but it isn't.

Lord of Oats wrote:Basically, people using it generally aren't educated enough to properly be racist.

Racism requires no education, nor is it limited by it. A main ingredient of racism is ignorance, of which you have an abundance.

Actually, on second thought, I'm not going to post to this thread.

But you did, you rain-sponge.

The name of the country Niger is neutral. Adding another "g" in the middle makes it not so. Why? Because there's a lot of people out there who get offended by that word. Should they be? Probably not; it's just a word, and the only reason it offends them is because they're willing to let one word offend them. But the fact of the matter is, people get offended, therefore the word is offensive.

The words "Towel" and "Head" are both neutral. Combining them makes them not so. Should this be so? You can be idealistic about it and say "Of course not, a turban [which is NOT a towel, by the way] is a great fashion statement," but it doesn't change the fact that there's an enormous population that gets offended when you call someone a "Towelhead." And that makes it an offensive term.

Language becomes offensive when people get offended, not the other way around, and if you're not sensitive to that, then one day someone is going to punch you in the face, and you'll have deserved it.

The breeder has a point. (What a cracker.)

As a cracker that is also a direct descendant of sand niggers, I find that the ignorance to the term "towel head" unacceptable coming from some honkey I have never met.

Go back to Europe shorty!

*pours some of his 40oz to the curb for his fallen brothers.

<font size="1">The above is an illustration of how ridiculous (and useless) I find this thread. I hope I offended everybody OK!</font>

What do you know, you have sex with your sister.

At least he's not queer.

Racism is not a laughing matter, unless it's white-on-white racism.

This guy apparently went to the Micheal Richards School of Stand-up Comedy. That said, a believe that an exchange of words (excluding credible threats) can never justify physical violence. However, I am not so naive as to assume other people share my views. This last step is important, as it keeps you from getting punched in the face or thrown in a Sudanese prison.

Adam! wrote:Racism is not a laughing matter, unless it's white-on-white racism.

Yes. It is perfectly acceptable to make fun of:
1. The English (especially their cricket team and Royal family)
2. New Zealanders (baaaaaa...)
3. Nickleback, Bryan Adams and other Canadian musical atrocities.

(NB: It is obviously also OK to make fun of Americans, but that can be fairly pointless because they tend not to get it anyway. And they are often heavily armed)

Caravan Ray wrote:Nickleback, Bryan Adams and other Canadian musical atrocities.

If you continue to use these offensive stereotypes when referring to my people I will be forced to put on my toque, grab my hockey stick (which I use to fight my way through all the polar bears and potheads) and trudge down to the mailbox to fire off a polite but stern letter to my Member of Parliament.

Caravan Ray wrote:(NB: It is obviously also OK to make fun of Americans, but that can be fairly pointless because they tend not to get it anyway. And they are often heavily armed)

What are you saying?

fluffy wrote:At least he's not queer.

Adam! wrote:

Caravan Ray wrote:Nickleback, Bryan Adams and other Canadian musical atrocities.

If you continue to use these offensive stereotypes when referring to my people I will be forced to put on my toque, grab my hockey stick (which I use to fight my way through all the polar bears and potheads) and trudge down to the mailbox to fire off a polite but stern letter to my Member of Parliament.

EXACTLY!

(LAUGHING MAO)