The Song Fight Bulletin Board

This looks interesting:

http://www.turnmeup.org/

I'd be curious to know what process they use to "certify" an album as sufficiently dynamic. And is there any way for an unsigned artist who only produces MP3s and no CDs (that is, most of us here) to get certified.

(Assuming it was something one even wanted.)

Here's a good article, related and current. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/ ... h_fidelity

The RS article is actually how I found out about Turn Me Up.

Good link, although ISTR reading essentially all the same information on some website or other as long ago as 2004.

EDIT: I think I meant this.

Interesting. I got the book: This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession as an Xmas present. I am now even more excited to read it.

Ken

I love reading about this stuff. I'm, too, caught in this funk. Here at Song Fight, we are making music that is being listened to from computers and Ipods, for the most part. So after a few months of submitting songs, I started listening to my final mix through my computer speakers and taking note and making adjustments to the mix to work with them. I try to get an all around good mix by listening on several different systems. Ive also started pumping up my volume, even though Ive been told by the likes of Ken and other good studio guys, to be careful of that slippery slope, and slippery it is. I was working so hard to get my volume up to the other fighters, that my songs started losing their range. But instead of going back to a lower volume, I started trying to make them better at higher volume. The next thing I knew, I was making the crappiest recording in the history of crappism. Even then I continued putting bandaids on the problem, instead of seeing the wrong direction I was traveling. Its like a drug addiction, and hard to recover. They tried to send me off to rehab, but I said;a no no no.

I still second guess myself to this day because I feel there has to be a way to have the best of both worlds. Even on the last song I did with Fluffy, I was feeling that it didn't have the drive I thought it needed to stand up to the other songs, but he kept insisting it is fine and the others are just over boosted. So I went with the flow and now listening back, he was right. Our song stayed true with nice range and still sounds good. I still feel it might be a tad compressed, but not bad.

This is a quote from Nigel. I'm not sure if it was just a cliché expression, or if it was a physical "knob turning" truth, because of the fact that I didn't boost the volume very much on this one. But either way, I read it as an honest opinion and a fact that people do use their volume knob.
As quoted:
"Nigel (spOOn) Clements"]
BLT (ft. Sockpuppet): Industrial Rock in a NIN vein this works on almost every level, the instrumentation is great, and has me reaching for the volume up knob, this is an almost pefect unison of two masters of there chosen genres, I'm also loving the sung vocals counterpointed with the whispered vocal line behind, some really professional touches here... good work! 9/10

But I have started using a few tricks. Ive been playing around with them and some other things Ive picked up here and there. Mostly from here.

reaching for the volume up knob

That sounds more like because he's psyched and wants to rock out.

Ideal: the flexability of digital with the warmth of analog capturing a literally dynamic performance. I love hearing Slayer, but afterwards I may like some Willie Nelson. Get those guys to work together, and I'm in heaven. Unless the point is to get numb, wouldn't you want dynamics in a live performance as well?

Paco Del Stinko wrote:

reaching for the volume up knob

That sounds more like because he's psyched and wants to rock out.

See, I was so conscience about the volume, that I took it as he needed to turn it up.

Been really excited to see what develops at turnmeup.org ever since it launched. Charles Dye and Bob Katz are the madmen behind it, and I really like the way they sell the concept of preserving dynamics.

The linked Rolling Stone article is a nice summary, but one thing I never understand is using the Arctic Monkeys' disc as the example of "a prime offender" in the loudness war. Well, no, I understand where the complaint originated from: the finished album wasn't as dynamic as their [home-recorded, un-mastered] demos. OK, that may be, but I can think of dozens of albums that have more limiting/clipping or less dynamic range. In fact, I would hazard a guess that most recent charting pop/rock/alternative/whatever-the-genre-is albums are louder.

Paco Del Stinko wrote:Unless the point is to get numb, wouldn't you want dynamics in a live performance as well?

Most live music is too loud, and has been for a very long time.

If the *audience* has to wear earplugs in order to be able to perceive the music that is actually being played rather than a wall a noise, then the music is too loud. In my experience that has been the exact case since at least the late 1980s.

Ken: I recently finished listening to that as an audio book. I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.

jeff robertson wrote:

Paco Del Stinko wrote:Unless the point is to get numb, wouldn't you want dynamics in a live performance as well?

Most live music is too loud, and has been for a very long time.

If the *audience* has to wear earplugs in order to be able to perceive the music that is actually being played rather than a wall a noise, then the music is too loud. In my experience that has been the exact case since at least the late 1980s.

The last live venue in NYC that really paid attention to audio quality was the Bottom Line, which shut its doors a few years ago because NYU owned the property and wanted to put more admin offices or something there. But there isn't anywhere else I know of where I'd almost go to hear any artist because I know 1) they only host good artists (regardless of genre) and 2) they make them sound AWESOME from any seat in the house (it only held like 250 people).

Are there venues like this in your town?

röymond wrote:

jeff robertson wrote:

Paco Del Stinko wrote:Unless the point is to get numb, wouldn't you want dynamics in a live performance as well?

Most live music is too loud, and has been for a very long time.

If the *audience* has to wear earplugs in order to be able to perceive the music that is actually being played rather than a wall a noise, then the music is too loud. In my experience that has been the exact case since at least the late 1980s.

The last live venue in NYC that really paid attention to audio quality was the Bottom Line, which shut its doors a few years ago because NYU owned the property and wanted to put more admin offices or something there. But there isn't anywhere else I know of where I'd almost go to hear any artist because I know 1) they only host good artists (regardless of genre) and 2) they make them sound AWESOME from any seat in the house (it only held like 250 people).

Are there venues like this in your town?

Really can't say because I don't get out that much anymore. I just know that 90% of performances I've ever attended where the whole band was playing through a PA, it was too damn loud. Even when I was 16 and the band was Metallica, a combination of circumstances under which it should be impossible for anything to be "too loud", it was.

EDIT: admittedly, a Metallica concert is an example of a place where you should just expect everything to be really, really, loud. But when the same level of pain is induced by a local band in small club..

Another interesting article:

http://volcanoboy.com/modules/news/arti ... toryid=866

jimtyrrell wrote:Ken: I recently finished listening to that as an audio book. I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.

I read the introduction and loved it. I am midway through the first chapter and love it. I'll try to post more specifics later. I'm going to buy this book for a lot of my musician friends.

Ken

jeff robertson wrote: Most live music is too loud, and has been for a very long time.

If the *audience* has to wear earplugs in order to be able to perceive the music that is actually being played rather than a wall a noise, then the music is too loud. In my experience that has been the exact case since at least the late 1980s.

I fully agree. I only started going to concerts in the late 80's but I know what you mean, I saw Rush and Iron Maiden about 88-89. Rush was tolerable, Iron Maiden was crazy loud. I don't even like to go to concerts in venues over 2000 seats because of the loudness, but now even that is insane. Even if it's outside. As I get older I'm just scared about what it might do to my ears.

I'm in Nashville right now, and I'm planning on going to see Del McCoury tonight at the Ryman, so we'll see how that is. I've heard it's great.

ken wrote:Interesting. I got the book: This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession as an Xmas present. I am now even more excited to read it.

Ken

Crap. Another book I must read. The list is too long!