The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Clinton Curtis appeared yesterday before a panel of Democratic House Judiciary Committee members. He has signed <a href="http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/12/i ... .pdf">this sworn affidavit</a> that he built a vote-rigging software prototype at a Republican Congressman's request.

Video: http://home.comcast.net/~clotheshorse19 ... 121304.wmv

Transcription: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2004/1 ... /541/77#77

(If you didn't already think Diebold delivered the election...)

Phew! I thought you were talking about Songfight! at first. Luckily, it's not a real problem.

Hey, maybe it'll spark some reform? Who knows...

Not if nobody pays any attention to it.
Why is this not plastered all over the news?
-bill

HeuristicsInc wrote: Why is this not plastered all over the news?

BWA HA HA HA HA HA!

HA!

heh... heh...

th-...... ... "the news..."

BA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

HeuristicsInc wrote:Not if nobody pays any attention to it.
Why is this not plastered all over the news?
-bill

Because they don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole. It's a very messy topic.

Also because of the threat of news regulation efforts by a mostly republican controlled administration/congress. Don't want to bite the hands that feed you...or let you live...however you look at it.

and also...

ha h ha hahyahhahahah hahaha 'the news' ha ha hahaha ha haha ha hahahaha!

Oh please. The news isn't controlled by the government. It's controlled by big business. Which the government is also controlled by. It's more like a parent telling one child not to tattletale on the other.

At least, if you're gonna believe conspiracy shit, that's the one to believe.

c hack wrote:Phew! I thought you were talking about Songfight! at first. Luckily, it's not a real problem.
...

Heh - I immediately thought it was about Songfight! too.

Not that there isn't vote rigging going on here - you can't tell me that there isn't some computer boffin writing secret code to siphon votes away from Caravan Ray. Why is it every time I'm in a fight with a certain,"Mr Woodward" - he gets heaps of votes and I get hardly any. Coincidence? I don't think so....

Caravan Ray wrote:

c hack wrote:Phew! I thought you were talking about Songfight! at first. Luckily, it's not a real problem.
...

Heh - I immediately thought it was about Songfight! too.

Not that there isn't vote rigging going on here - you can't tell me that there isn't some computer boffin writing secret code to siphon votes away from Caravan Ray. Why is it every time I'm in a fight with a certain,"Mr Woodward" - he gets heaps of votes and I get hardly any. Coincidence? I don't think so.... :?

I don't think it's coincidence either. ;)

As a programmer and not a Democrat or Republican, This guy is full of shit. I have worked in government programming shops and no one would EVER ask someone to do this. At least not that open. They would have 20 or more people working on a function and tie it all together at the end. Also, it is impossible to "Hide Code" in a program if you look for it. All they would have to do is get one machine and decompiled the code to find this. Not big mystery... ooooh. All the crap he says about "needing the source code" is crap. His stories don't match the facts, that is why there has been no rumble. Most of what he spoke of was theory or Orwellian plots. Have a little faith in our government. If this guy was for real, he would have been killed a long time ago.

Fried wrote:1
1. I have worked in government programming shops and no one would EVER ask someone to do this. At least not that open.

2. Also, it is impossible to "Hide Code" in a program if you look for it. All they would have to do is get one machine and decompiled the code to find this. Not big mystery... ooooh. All the crap he says about "needing the source code" is crap.

3. Have a little faith in our government. If this guy was for real, he would have been killed a long time ago.

1. I too thought that would have been a little too forward. Doesn't seem likely that someone would be so obvious about that type of intention. But it's not out of the question, people say stupid crap all the time and they might have accidently blurted out their plan to him. Or maybe his quote is out of context.

2. Well, I think he said that there would still be elements of it somehow, someway, somewhere in the code even if it self destructed by updating itself. Basically implying that code doesn't just disapear, something would still have to execute that function and *THAT* would still be there.

3. werd.

Well, with the stuff I've seen about people analyzing the code that some Diebold employee leaked to the Internet (not at all secure, and usable back-doors implanted right into the central tabulating machine code - e.g. the existence of two sets of "books" containing the votes, AND a demonstrable hack of the system known), Diebold refusing to let their actual code be examined, Diebold putting non-governmentally okayed code onto voting machines when they weren't authorized to do so, the head of Diebold vowing to "deliver Ohio's vote to the Republican party", the track record of at least one Diebold employee as a blackmailer and who knows what else, ... I could go on for a while. This is just one more thing to add to the big steaming pile of shit.
They could hide the backdoors if they kept the code secret, or if they put code on that had not been examined, which... oh, they actually did. How about that.
In other news, California sued Diebold for giving them a system that did not meet their security/voting requirements and won.
-bill

Hoblit wrote:

Fried wrote:1
1. I have worked in government programming shops and no one would EVER ask someone to do this. At least not that open.

2. Also, it is impossible to "Hide Code" in a program if you look for it. All they would have to do is get one machine and decompiled the code to find this. Not big mystery... ooooh. All the crap he says about "needing the source code" is crap.

3. Have a little faith in our government. If this guy was for real, he would have been killed a long time ago.

1. I too thought that would have been a little too forward. Doesn't seem likely that someone would be so obvious about that type of intention. But it's not out of the question, people say stupid crap all the time and they might have accidently blurted out their plan to him. Or maybe his quote is out of context.

2. Well, I think he said that there would still be elements of it somehow, someway, somewhere in the code even if it self destructed by updating itself. Basically implying that code doesn't just disapear, something would still have to execute that function and *THAT* would still be there.

3. werd.

1)It's possible that someone as passionate about the Republicans winning as the Blogs are about the Republicans stealing it, had their own agenda. I don't get suprized by the stupidity of "normal" people anymore.

2) Actually, if he didn't obviously suck as a programmer, he could load the "destructive" program into memory and kill everything pertaining to itself from the HD. When the machine turned off, poof, no trace. If you are thinking the HD could still be recovered, the program could repeatedly write to those addressed until the machine was turned off and no recovery either. (He could also encrypt the code ect...)

3) Ya

p.s. I think the whole thing boils down to an inability to accept the loss. More people didn't like Kerry than didn't like Bush. People need to get over it. The government loves a divided population(easier to control) and will continue to fuel the flames. As long as we concentrate on things we can do nothing about, we will minimize the time to influence the things we can. We have gotten to the point of treating the two party system like pro sports teams! Chanting "My team is the best!" instead of questioning why there are only two viable teams? /rant

Fried wrote:We have gotten to the point of treating the two party system like pro sports teams! Chanting "My team is the best!" instead of questioning why there are only two viable teams? /rant

Exactly. You need more teams to root for.




errr.... isn't that your point?

Fried wrote:We have gotten to the point of treating the two party system like pro sports teams! Chanting "My team is the best!" instead of questioning why there are only two viable teams? /rant

I agree with this, but I'm more concerned right now about whether our government is actually speaking with the voice of the people (which I think it's not). Neither party fits my political ideas.
-bill

HeuristicsInc wrote:

Fried wrote:We have gotten to the point of treating the two party system like pro sports teams! Chanting "My team is the best!" instead of questioning why there are only two viable teams? /rant

I agree with this, but I'm more concerned right now about whether our government is actually speaking with the voice of the people (which I think it's not). Neither party fits my political ideas.
-bill

Yeah, I might be rooting for the blue team...but thats not because I like the quarter back and recieving core. I just think they have a slightly better game plan. After that, it's the Arena league.

Also, I feel a little alone in the moderate categories. It's so black or white (read red/blue) these days that it's hard for me to be represented accurately. I side with the Blue team but I don't necessarily agree with all of the play calling. But the red team's play calling is much worse yet they are ahead here in the third quarter. The red team argues with me like I'm just like everybody else on the blue team. The blue team accuses me of being on the red team because I don't agree with all of their play calling. Sometimes the red team makes a good call that really gets the ball downfield, but if I recognize that...then the blue team wants to kick me over to the other sideline.

/Hoblit takes ball and goes home

Fried wrote:p.s. I think the whole thing boils down to an inability to accept the loss. More people didn't like Kerry than didn't like Bush. People need to get over it. The government loves a divided population(easier to control) and will continue to fuel the flames.

You may be right, but I don't think that grants people on 'either side' (as if there really is such a thing) much intelligence. Rather I think that regardless of political allegiance a large proportion of people smell something rather rotten with the Bush administration, and are grasping at straws, long or short, to find some way to oust him.

At least here, occasionally, the trash press get hold of a particular villain and on whatever grounds, hound him out of power. I don't think anyone really believes Blunkett's departure has anything to do with affairs, or babies, or whatever. Rather no-one liked the draconian home affairs policies he was driving on and on with, and found a suitable thing to get him on.

[quote="FriedThe government loves a divided population(easier to control) and will continue to fuel the flames. As long as we concentrate on things we can do nothing about, we will minimize the time to influence the things we can. We have gotten to the point of treating the two party system like pro sports teams! Chanting "My team is the best!" instead of questioning why there are only two viable teams? /rant[/quote]
Ex effing actly!
Nailing of the Head!
This character in the video....comes off a bit like a tattletale who want favor with those opposed to power.....not an outraged citizen......
Ms. Information.......could you deliver this memo to the public please
Fried your point is well spoken......the real question is what are the things we can influence......and what are some solutions to the current situation we find ourselves in?

Hoblit wrote: Yeah, I might be rooting for the blue team...but thats not because I like the quarter back and recieving core. I just think they have a slightly better game plan. After that, it's the Arena league.

Also, I feel a little alone in the moderate categories. It's so black or white (read red/blue) these days that it's hard for me to be represented accurately. I side with the Blue team but I don't necessarily agree with all of the play calling. But the red team's play calling is much worse yet they are ahead here in the third quarter. The red team argues with me like I'm just like everybody else on the blue team. The blue team accuses me of being on the red team because I don't agree with all of their play calling. Sometimes the red team makes a good call that really gets the ball downfield, but if I recognize that...then the blue team wants to kick me over to the other sideline.

/Hoblit takes ball and goes home

That is how I feel when I hear people spewing hate over Bush or Kerry. Wake up people, you are not on either side! I have friends that get so worked up it is pathetic. First thing I had to realize was, how much of what is going on I don't truely know enough about to have an accurate unbiased opinion. Second thing I came too: We are all spoon fed what we want to hear and if you are just dumb enough, you will believe them.

/Fried takes Hoblit ball and throws it back on the field- It's thier ball, they just let you think It's yours. heh.

J$ wrote: Rather I think that regardless of political allegiance a large proportion of people smell something rather rotten with the Bush administration, and are grasping at straws, long or short, to find some way to oust him.

Obviously more people wanted him in there than out. I don't buy the voter fraud argument. Both sides are just as corrupt. They were talking about contesting the vote before the vote was even taken.

Ow, I just want to trust something. I'm so sad. I can't.

I don't trust these whistleblowers either, but I would like to see their claims addressed and refuted if they're not true. Or something.

I also think I should watch football with Hoblit.
-bill

Fried wrote:Obviously more people wanted him in there than out. I don't buy the voter fraud argument. Both sides are just as corrupt. They were talking about contesting the vote before the vote was even taken.

Well, more people wanted the Republicans than the Democrats. That's obvious.

The pre-talk of vote corruption was based on the experience of the previous election and 'a leopard doesn't change its spots' approach, not totally out of the blue and uncalled for.

However the point I was trying to make (!) was about how people do make changes in the long gap between elections. Maybe it's not Paris '68, but it has changed to trying to use the worst of 24 hour instant media to its advantage. Whether or not the end ever justifies the means is a matter of opinion. I personally think not (though i did breathe a little sigh of relief to see Blunkett go.)

j$

I don't trust the whistleblower either, but I trust Diebold less. The code should be open source. It's absolutely insane that closed-source code is even considered for use.

c hack wrote:I don't trust the whistleblower either, but I trust Diebold less. The code should be open source. It's absolutely insane that closed-source code is even considered for use.

Why? So every kid from here to Pakistan can write a virus or set up attacks though what are already questionable networks? It so easy to see some peoples team. J$, What I was trying to say to you is they all have spots. They rest of what you are talking about just zoomed over my head.