The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Posted: **Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:25 pm**

Why is no one yammering about this yet?

I'll start!

Google has a nifty widget for watching the results as they come in. I'll have this doohicky on in the background all evening.

w00t!

Posted: **Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:33 pm**

I voted at 6:00 am for Obama. This is like watching a car crash in slow mo.

How about that McCain!?

Posted: **Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:07 pm**

California is going to be intense. I'll be asleep when the results come rolling in.

Zogby has Obama up 13 in CA, SurveyUSA has Clinton up 10.

I'm excited that the primary process in TX might actually matter. McCain's dominance seems inevitable. The speculation that Huckabee could be looking at trying to be McCain's VP is terrifying. Huckabee does not need to be in the line of succession. Of anything. Ever.

Posted: **Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:41 pm**

Sober wrote:I'm excited that the primary process in TX might actually matter.

Hah. Yeah... I'll be voting in May.

The END of May.

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:43 am**

McCain is on your side... when it's convenient for him. Dude's a toad, and a slimeball. Remember all those times when people thought he would stand up to Bush and instead he was all "yes, whatever the president said, I stand behind him"? Fuck off, John McCain, you fucking fraud.

Huckabee is somewhat insane. He was on CNN this morning talking about how he's the real conservative choice, and listing off all the evil positions he holds which prove it. Cocksucker.

Romney is the least horrible of the three, and he's a Mormon. Read this and tell me you don't think they're a little nutty: http://scriptures.lds.org/abr/3/25

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:11 am**

jb wrote:McCain is on your side... when it's convenient for him... Fuck off, John McCain, you fucking fraud.

I think that's called "becoming a politician". Yes, it's sad he's cashed in his creed.

jb wrote:Huckabee is somewhat insane.

OMG this guy scares me to no end. Remember his "It's easier to change the constitution to align with God's word than to change God's word to align with our ideas about modern living" quote? He will do more damage to this country's legal/justice system then Bush has even done.

jb wrote:Romney is the least horrible of the three, and he's a Mormon.

Mormon's aren't alone. Anybody who ... OK, I'll just stop right there.

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:11 am**

jb wrote:Romney is the least horrible of the three,

What? Honestly? Mr. Big Business is the least horrible? Look, Mormons are nuts and everything (the South Park episode about Mormonism illustrates this very well), but that's the least of our worries.

IMHO, Romney is W v2.0. A governor with a business background and a loose religious affiliation*, and more image than substance to his campaign. Compare his campaign to Bush's in 2000. They're both full of weaselly answers and hidden agendas, and appeal to voters with (relative) youth, looks, and personality, and various concoctions of a well-paid expert staff.

*Okay, so Mormon is admittedly more controversial than Methodist. But we know that both of these guys really just worship money.

You've got a point about McCain, and you also don't, but I'm not really feeling up to that at the moment. I just want to be clear that Romney's douchebaggery is at least the size of Neptune's atmosphere, and I'm glad to see him get his ass kicked by anyone.

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:25 am**

jb wrote:McCain is on your side... when it's convenient for him. Dude's a toad, and a slimeball. Remember all those times when people thought he would stand up to Bush and instead he was all "yes, whatever the president said, I stand behind him"? Fuck off, John McCain, you fucking fraud.

I got the impression that, rather than politicking to impress, John McCain usually does what John McCain thinks is best. He goes with his gut, he shamelessly flip-flops, and he supports President Bush on certain poorly-chosen (IMO) issues, but toad he ain't. That's the main reason I find him the least objectionable of the remaining republican candidates, but that doesn't even matter, since given the current lineup, there's no configuration that'll make me vote Republican this year.

God damn it, why do we split the primaries up like this? It's exhausting, and it's costing the candidates absurd amounts of money. Why can't it just be over?

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:42 am**

Generic wrote:God damn it, why do we split the primaries up like this? It's exhausting, and it's costing the candidates absurd amounts of money.

It's getting a lot of eyeballs for the advertisers.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:21 am**

obama raises $3 million in one day. hillary loans herself $5 million same day.

where's the momentum?

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:51 pm**

jb wrote:McCain is on your side... when it's convenient for him. Dude's a toad, and a slimeball. Remember all those times when people thought he would stand up to Bush and instead he was all "yes, whatever the president said, I stand behind him"? Fuck off, John McCain, you fucking fraud.

That may be correct - I know very little about the dude. But from where I stand, the future of the USA (and hence the rest of us) does seem relatively promising. If the worst possible outcome from this election* is that the Republican party is returned and McCain is the Prez - then at least you will have a President that thinks that torture is a bad thing and that anthropogenic climate change is a real problem that needs something done about it. This is a vast improvement on the status quo.

(*I'm assuming that it is virtually impossible that any of the other Republican nutbags could win the eventual election. Please tell me that that is so)

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:08 pm**

Current news is that Romney quit, so there's one of those you can discount. McCain is likely to get the Republican nomination now. But he was pretty far ahead anyway.
-bill

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:17 pm**

"MITT QUIT MITT QUIT MITT QUIT"

chanted in the lemming-like fashion of his supporters on super tuesday night....

at least mccain is the least of all evil republican choices, as far as i'm concerned. mccain vs clinton could be closer than mccain vs. obama, in which case obama wins easily. if it's a choice between business as usual vs. business as usual, i'm not sure who i'll vote for.

but business as usual vs. change, no hesitation there.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:18 pm**

Hahaha

This whole idea of change thats sweeping the country makes me laugh out loud. Definatley not a case of LOI.

Clinton, Obama, McCain all the same crap with different hats.
Buisiness as usual. The only hope of real change is being buried as much as possible, and when it cant be hidden, its discredited.
The change America needs is to get off this whole 'democracy' bullshit and return to the republic it once was.

The only real chance of change for America would be a Ron Paul or a Badnarik

Personally, Id burn the lot of em. Let anarchy prevail

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:38 pm**

Ron Paul is a creationist. He accepts money from hate groups. Most of his supporters don't agree with him on his politics and only are into him because of the "phenomenon." He's got a personality cult going on. There is a lot to hate about Ron Paul.

Obama has a lot going for him. http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/01/28/obama/

You can't expect things to change overnight, and anarchy isn't a step forward.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:28 pm**

Me$$iah wrote: The change America needs is to get off this whole 'democracy' bullshit and return to the republic it once was

When did the USA stop being a Republic?

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:37 am**

Me$$iah wrote: Personally, Id burn the lot of em. Let anarchy prevail

Right, because anarchy as a system works wonders for, say, repairing the roads and funding our public school system.

Our government may be corrupt, but jeez, I LIVE here! I don't want to endure the free market zombie apocalypse that would ensue if these people had NO governmental oversight!

Call me a cynic, but really! I like my public transportation thankyouverymuch.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:32 am**

Caravan Ray wrote:
jb wrote:McCain is on your side... when it's convenient for him. Dude's a toad, and a slimeball. ... McCain, you fucking fraud.
That may be correct - I know very little about the dude. But from where I stand, the future of the USA (and hence the rest of us) does seem relatively promising. If the worst possible outcome from this election* is that the Republican party is returned and McCain is the Prez - then at least you will have a President that thinks that torture is a bad thing and that anthropogenic climate change is a real problem that needs something done about it. This is a vast improvement on the status quo.

(*I'm assuming that it is virtually impossible that any of the other Republican nutbags could win the eventual election. Please tell me that that is so)

He has plenty good chance to win being it looks like hes going to be the only white male in the general election. In our culture that typically has an advantage over the black male or the white female.

However, I don't think we are looking for a 'one guy' solution to all of our problems. If the republicans win the election, Mr. McCain here will just be whatever the administration molds him into. Hes a guy who will make some obvious changes to the current administration but will also pat the back of anyone who got him there...which will be everyone in the current administration! You see? The democrats would most likely clean house and put in their own folks. (Which of course will have its own problems) This will be the only way to make any effective political climate change.

Which brings me to...

Me$$iah wrote:Hahaha

This whole idea of change thats sweeping the country makes me laugh out loud. Definatley not a case of LOI.

Clinton, Obama, McCain all the same crap with different hats.
Buisiness as usual. The only hope of real change is being buried as much as possible, and when it cant be hidden, its discredited.
....the rest was just extreme ranting that doesn't need to be seriously addressed...

This is partly why I'm pulling for Clinton. Dems (IMO) would make as much change as actually possible with her influence while maintaining the stability under the same basic political 'hat' mentioned above.

However, I do believe this country needs to re-read that part in the Declaration of Independence about :

Declaration of Independence wrote: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security....

it goes on about George:(literally)

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
...
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.
...
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury
...
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
...
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
...
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
...

and I don't know, maybe get me$$iah to do something about it...

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:03 am**

Hoblit wrote:
Declaration of Independence wrote: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm all for hanging the current administration by their own bootstraps. Kick 'em out and good riddance!

But replace a broken system with no system? Sorry, kids, that's naive. Wallmart America aint gonna run itself. (Thank God.)

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:11 am**

Hoblit wrote: Declaration of Independence about :

HAHAHA that's brilliant, Hoblit. I haven't read the Declaration's rant against King George as a rebuke of W. but it fits so frickin' perfectly.

And yes, it's not the system that's broken, it's that the administration has abused the system and congress has refused to stand up to provide the checks and balances that were designed to keep things, well, balanced.

Remember, the Preamble of the Declaration is a condemnation of how the crown had treated the colonies establishing justification for what follows, not an early draft of the Constitution, although some of it was inspirational to that end.

Posted: **Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:52 pm**

Yup, in an ideal world, I am an anarchist... This works for me, however, I am also a realist. I know that anarchy would not work as a system, this is because people are in general dumb and shitty

With this taken into account, I would happily support the Libertarian party.

The constitution of the the uSA is, whilst not perfect, the finest system of government that man has yet come up with.
Unfortunatley America no longer runs in accord with this system.

For a better understanding of America and its system, including the whole election process then take Badnariks Constitution Class If you have any interest in this whole thing then this class is a must. If youre an American then I think it should be your duty to watch.
Yeah I know the whole thing is like 6 hrs ... rediculous... yeh I know , but it covers everything, and I found it a very entertaining watch... Ive watched it many times, and in fact have a much higher quality copy here.

Badnarik is a constitutionalist so is Ron Paul. Id support whomever wants to reintroduce the constitution as the basic system for government, even with some idiot religious ideas... As long as the constitution is upheld and takes precedence over anything else, epsecially regarding matters of church and state etc...

EDIT: I have to edit to add, I support all hate groups ... I equally support all anti hate groups... damn , I mean I support free speech, across the board, speech is either free or its not. I also support the right of everyone to have their own opinions... even if I hate and disagree with them.

Posted: **Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:10 pm**

I support their right to speak but I don't want them running my fucking country.

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