The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Or, conversely, empty thereof...

cleavage... i like it.
edit: they don't look real.

Reviews (in random song fight order):

FAWMit
I like the idea behind the production, and the song could be really cool. And I'm definitely not one to talk, since I'm lacking big time in the vocal dept. but since we're giving honest impressions one of the first things I noticed is the vocals are just out of tune. I like your voice for the song, but it just seems like you need to lock onto those notes a little better.

Plain Songs for Doves & Tigers
Hey, this is cool. I dig the song, I wish more time was put into the recording. There was some clipping, and i'm not sure the second vocal part was working quite right. Overall it's still a good entry though.

Dying Light
Your vocals are pretty muffled but far up in the mix. I could see that being a production choice if they were sitting back in the mix. The harmony intervals are either clashing in that low range or just don't sound right since the vocals are so muddy. Overall I think there are some cool concepts for a metal tune of sorts. Just seems like you need to work on the vocal production and performance. The performance seems lifeless... like with out any passion. Now, you could be trying to get a kind of lifeless vibe from your vocals, but I just think there's a way to perform it like that too. Don't get me wrong, my vocals need work too... But like I said, though I think it could be cool song.

DoubleBack
Your vocals are kinda burried in the mix here... Wow, I feel like an hypocrite asshole because I'm never happy with my vocal work and so far I'm just ripping on others' vocals. I get that you're kind of trying to do that voice through a telephone effect (right?) but you could still pull up the vocals a bit. Also when you have the two parts over each other it gets a little confusing. Maybe have fairly normal production on the vocals but use the telephone idea for those additional parts? Just a suggestion.

Bax
This is me. I was experimenting with FM synths through bass and guitar amps, at least through software. Was hoping it was going to end up a little more chaotic, but I'm still kind of happy with it even though sometimes I think one of thesynths almost sounds like a general midi distorted guitar from the early/mid 90s at times. Kinda short, I know, but it just really felt like I had made my point.

Jim Tyrrell
Okay, I want to drink now, gonna go get a beer. Yes I really just got a beer, unpausing. Great submission. Only suggestion I can make is that at the end it feels like you repeat the 'rum a dum' part too soon, like it wants a little room to breath before repeating. Maybe follow through the chord progression with out the 'rum adum' vocal part, and then repeast again with it? Or even the lead up to the verse. Thanks for put up the lyrics, and great job on them as well.

PQ Band
I like that the guitar is pretty dynamic, but I think it does get too quiet at some points. Just nitpicking though. Nice vocal performance. I'm not sure what else to say.

Andre Was Here at Midnight
I don't follow sports that much, so I don't get the #23 reference. The song reminds me of Modest Mouse a bit. But over all the song doesn't feel like you were trying enough. Or maybe that was the point? Vocals seem off in places. Thanks for posting the lyrics.

Melvin
Very first impression, the beginning reminded me of the song in 28 days later when they're in the supermarket. Harmonies seem off at the end of the chorus, on in the verse though. Good melody and I like your ending.

MC Eric B
I dig the backing track. The pre-choruses have promise too. I'm not really feeling the verse, well really, your inflections at "sacred psalm" just have a really nerdy vibe to them. Maybe that's what you're going for, but itjust seems like the backing track is too good to turn it into a goofy song, in my opinion. Backing track reminds me a little of NIN's Closer. I think the song could be pretty good though if it felt more serious. I'm sorry if you really were serious and this seems harsh, just trying to offer advice. Thanks for posting the lyrics.

The Capitalist Youth
Nice harmonies! Great Performance, great recording, great song. Like the way it builds.




Vote: This is tough. Both Jim Tyrrel and The Capitalist Youth have strong submissions. I'd argue The Capitalist Youth has a better recording/performance, but I think Jim's song is stronger so it will get my vote. Any song that gets me to drink, I guess Great job, both of you!

Runner-ups:
The Capitalist Youth
Plain Songs For Doves and Tigers


Good Job everyone! Hope no one's offended with my hopefully constructive criticism, just trying to offer advice that would help. I know I have lots to improve as well.

I like the early reviews, it shows alot of enthusasum(sp?) but uhh don't you want to listen to the songs at least a second time before you go voting on the first day?

I like my voting like I like my sex... quick and thoughtless!

In all seriousness though, I suppose you have a point. But in the few fights I've entered I've only written reviews in maybe 1/2 of them if I'm lucky. But for all of them I started writing reviews and then never got around to finishing them and so they weren't posted. And I don't think that's really fair to the others, so I wanted to take the time now and listen to them and write up reviews rather than risk putting them off and not getting them done. I'll take your advice next time, though, and maybe not vote so early.

I did listen to each song at least twice, most of them 3 times or more. Next time I'll hold off on the voting even if I do an early review. We'll see if my opinions change.

Rone Rivendale wrote:I like the early reviews, it shows alot of enthusasum(sp?) but uhh don't you want to listen to the songs at least a second time before you go voting on the first day?

It's really not that hard for some people to form a complete opinion about a song after hearing it only one time.

fretnoize - I totally agree with your comments. No, I was not trying to be goofy/nerdy but my attempts at serious songs usually come off that way. I am a horrible singer, so that is one problem of course.

========================

fretnoize wrote:MC Eric B
I dig the backing track. The pre-choruses have promise too. I'm not really feeling the verse, well really, your inflections at "sacred psalm" just have a really nerdy vibe to them. Maybe that's what you're going for, but itjust seems like the backing track is too good to turn it into a goofy song, in my opinion. Backing track reminds me a little of NIN's Closer. I think the song could be pretty good though if it felt more serious. I'm sorry if you really were serious and this seems harsh, just trying to offer advice. Thanks for posting the lyrics..

====================================

My Reviews:

Andre was here at midnight - The first 2/3rds of the song all sounds exactly the same. The guitar solo part is good, but it needed something like earlier in the song also, to give it some variation. There does not really seem to be any chorus. I still like the song though, it just could have been structured better.

Bax - I like this. The drumming is great.

The Capitalist Youth - A very well done folk type song. Professional sounding, like something on a real folk CD.

DoubleBack - I like the hardcore gangsta type sound. The problem is the vocals are too soft in the mix, giving them a weak feel, which makes the gangsta part lack authority.

Dying Light - I love the intro. The way the vocals are mixed with music sounds amateur though. The song is catchy.

FAWMit - I like it. Catchy and good singing. Although a little slow moving.

Jim Tyrrell - You sing with a lot of authority, which is perfect for a drinking song like this. Great, vocals, great background music, and great production.

Melvin - Catchy and well done as usual.

Plain Songs for Doves & Tigers - Good song.

PQ Band - The vocals are good, but the song needs more music. Too slow and boring for much of the song.

drë wrote:cleavage... i like it.
edit: they don't look real.

Yeah, well, what did you expect from the guy who brings the MIDI drums every time he enters?

Q: What's the difference between an optimist, a pessimist and an engineer?

A: The optimist thinks the glass is half full. The pessimist thinks the glass is half empty. The engineer thinks the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Charles (KA)

Review time

Plain Songs for doves and Tigers : Definitely a well put together song, and interesting to listen to. The bit where the flutes (or whatever they were) came in was cool.

The Capitalist Youth : Nice vocal harmonies, I really like this song

Melvin: Cool synth, and a catchy tune.

Andre Was Here at midnight: sounds like the voclas are cut together at one point... but apart from that the song flows pretty well.

FAWMit : im not a fan of those fairly electronic sounding drums, but the rest of the song is great...

Bax: Catchy riffs. Your singing kinda reminds me of system of a down, I dunno if thats what you were going for, but its cool. bit short though? I dunno I wanted to hear more at the end xD.

Doubleback: The vocals are too muffled (I know i can't talk xD) but the song works very well.

Jim Tyrell: I enjoyed lisnin to this, the lyrics were very good.

MC Eric B : at the start and at certain points the voclas were too quiet, but its a cool drum beat and your vocals have a good sound too.


PQ Band: A nice song, the guitar was a bit quiet at times maybe ...

And my vote goes to : Bax. but it was a close one...

God im useless at reviews. sorry.

-- And Now --

My amasing excuse why my song was so bad : I don't have one. Yeeah, im not really a singer, so me doing vocals is difficult, and my voice is quiet so thats why the vocals might sound muffled at times. Oh and I did a enter shikari stlye techno version as well xD, Its basicly the same song but with less guitar and with a synth thingie --> http://www.zshare.net/audio/78082511e84c6a/ <-- Called Half Full. I was hoping to mix them together and add lyrics to half full but there wasn't time...

I was dying light btw

fretnoize wrote:Reviews (in random song fight order):

DoubleBack
Your vocals are kinda burried in the mix here... Wow, I feel like an hypocrite asshole because I'm never happy with my vocal work and so far I'm just ripping on others' vocals. I get that you're kind of trying to do that voice through a telephone effect (right?) but you could still pull up the vocals a bit. Also when you have the two parts over each other it gets a little confusing. Maybe have fairly normal production on the vocals but use the telephone idea for those additional parts? Just a suggestion.

it's just a mic not pre-amped, singing bout as loud, as close to the mic as i can...
if i raised it much higher... it would clip... i actually lowered the music some... and it really didn't help too much
the vocal effect... is caused because i had to double the vocals really to make them stand out of the music a little better...
but you know that is really a losing battle period really

anyhow... glad that besides that it has promise \m/

Reviews

PQ Band: Unlike the other reviewers so far, I think the song is fine with the instrumentation as is. It's a slow song. But the vocals tripped me up right away, I don't know if maybe it's just the effect you're using on them? It seems like there might be some off notes in there. I think it's a pleasant melody.

Bax: I like the sound on this. High energy, spastic, but it knows where it's going. You sounded like you were stretching on the high notes. You're right, the synth sounds a little like midi guitar, but not in a bad way. I think it's articifial enough that people will realize it's intentional, rather than some kind of limit on your production abilities.

The Capitalist Youth: Me. A little bit of a straight up country/folk experiment. Recorded in <8 hours. Finished at 4am. Based loosely on the real life story of a girl dumping me because a prophet came to her church and told her she wouldn't meet the man she was going to marry until she was 20.

DoubleBack: I think the drums on this could really work, you just need to tighten up the timing some. What recording set up are you using? It should be pretty easy to take a good few measures then copy and paste them across your project. The mix could be better. The backing track is nice.

Dying Light: Good guitar parts. Drums sound a little artificial, but when you're playing metal I think that will fly to some degree. You need to project your voice better. Here you sound kind of scared and all wavery.

Plain Songs for Doves & Tigers: I really like this. Good lyrics, good music. Reminds me of Leonard Cohen. When the second vocal part comes in, I think you need to make sure you decide when you'll double the melody, and when you're going to harmonize. It's ok to switch, you just have to clearly separate the two, or else it seems like an accident.

Andre was here at midnight: Your song has a kind of intangible charm to it I like. One thing to work on is there seems to be some problems with rhythm where one thing gets ahead of the other. Also the "aay" in the first "Todaaaayyy" is out of tune. I like whatever is going on at the beginning of your guitar solo.

FAWMit: I think where you had different parts panned to either side was interesting. It sounds almost like you have two separate songs that could play by themselves but they fit together too. Unfortunately, a lot of the notes sound off on your vocals. The song itself seems good.

Jim Tyrrell: As a bar/drinking song I think this is very successful. I have no complaints. I'm curious, what's your recording set up? It sounds like you're going direct in with your guitar. I think you would get decent improvement in sound if you miked it, even if you only had a low price microphone. If you could get the bass to sound more distinct I think that would be a bonus. Finally, I know I never have a drumset available when I want one, but it also would be cool to have more "room sound" real drums. But like I said, I think your song worked very well.

Melvin: I really like the synth at the beginning. It reminds me of the Rentals or Weezer. Actually, the acoustic matched with metal guitars reminds me of that too. Are those real drums? Overall sounds good.

MC Eric B: I think your vocals sound alright here. I say this as someone who it's been said to: What are the last two lines of your chorus supposed to mean? It sounds like you're addressing someone who sees a rainbow shining down when they look at any empty glass. I hope that doesn't come across as mean at all. I just know that it really helped out my songs when someone pointed out something that made sense to me but didn't necessarily to the listener. I think it would help to have the bass louder, and probably help to have more to the backing track than just bass/drums.

I am indeed recording direct with the guitar. And yeah, I'd love to be able to mic it instead. The problem is, you'd hear three kids in the background most of the time. It's tricky enough just trying to get a vocal take. Matter of fact, I bet you can hear the little guys here and there on my recordings.

Reviews to follow.

TheCapitalistYouth wrote:Are those real drums?

Yes! I've been playing and recording them for about 10 months now, and I think I'm getting the hang of it. And yes, my entry this week is very Weezy. Someone's got to keep that golden sound alive. Thanks for the reviews so far, everyone. I'll do my best to contribute reviews this round...

andre was here at midnight: i like the music, it's straight
of course on the minimalist side, but toe-tappin'
the vocals are so-so, i like the lyrics for the most part
a few parts could've been strengthened with some dif. lyrics
but all and all not too bad

bax: haha, that's pretty hot... production is really actually really good...
sounds just like offspring... not saying that it sounds like you ripped their song... just sounds extremely similar to the style
i think if it had a nice change up at some point it would probably get my vote
it may still, gotta check the others (drums were really nice) \m/ are the drums real? haha they sound it, i just have to ask
browny points if they real

capitalistyouth: feel like i'm around the campfire man, the vocals are alright
minor mixing if's, but deffinately not 'bad' at all
this actually a pretty nice song
the little riff break is nice, simple... but effective
i think the whole thing is done really well though
up there for a re-listen

dyinglight: intriquing, like the intro
at first the guitar sounds strange, but it worked really well
i honestly really can't understand none of the lyrics
the music is pretty fuckin' cool
i think the vocals need to be more stereo, and loud by voice
not so much loud by production, that would've been nice
don't know your recording situation\m/
it sounds like the lyrics aint bad... they fit the song well
though i don't really like the production of them
it sounds like it has a lot of promise \m/


(had to take a little pause for 'freebird(your bird is freebasing mix)' haha i didn't even know it was on the computer haha)

fawmit: i don't really like the drums being panned, sound good...
the guitar is fine panned like it is...
it just needs more going on in the other side
production seems to be the biggest problem
the back-up vox would sound really nice up an octave, female or as it is with a female voice added \m/
haha not sure if you can hit those kind of notes
but this isn't bad or nothin'... just really needs production work
maybe another instrument on the otherside of the pan as well \m/

jim tyrrell: haha i'm a huge great big sea fan \m/ very irish
'and the very idea, was the point of the game' i like, i like
sometimes having another vocal come in, in the otherside of the pan
would've been hot i think
it's missing the vocal mixture, specially during the rum a dum parts
it's a song for two, but i can imagine... it would be awesome
if you ever get that, i want the recording
re-listener

mc eric b: nice production,
the vocals are put together alright
i would've really liked to hear the music build
and it really never does
all and all it's alright
i dig the setup
just think it's missing that full build
something slow just full at the end
would've been nice way to work it
or hit full, and minimalist be the way it starts and ends
all and all it has a cool building base

melvin: i like the effect, it's all well produced
the vocals are sometimes back and forth on the strength of the vox
but all and all the vox are done well
really that's it... pretty good song

plain songs for doves and tigers: i like the minimalist sound of this, like the guitar
the production is not really that great, but it's not awful
sometimes the vocals i can hear you hitting your lowest point
and it's shaky... but i like the whole idea of the song
a whole lot
i may re-listen at possibility for vote, just for the idea
gotta figure out if i think the idea is better then the songs of others

pqband: sounds too much like that you are beautiful mother fucker haha..
that's pretty shitty of me, i've grown cold in my age
dude just really gets on my nerves, james blunt or somethin' like that
the song really isn't there, it's alright and all...
it just aint my thing at all...
shouldn't be a 4 minute song...
the guitar never really does anything either
deffinately needs more 2 it

hopefully i didn't miss anyone
if so, just holla (all the songs mix with like 3000 other songs...)

tip top 5
Capitalist Youth
Jim Tyrrell
Plain Songs for Doves and Tigers
Bax
Melvin

capitalist youth gets my vote
a really really good fight though
it was a tough choice

Andre was here at midnight
I keep losing the beat here... it seems you slip in a beat or lose one every other bar; it's not strictly 4/4.

Bax
Short but good!

Capitalist Youth
Good wholesome old time music. My favorite.

MC Crapalot / DoubleBack
The sound is very muddy, which makes it hard to follow the rap. Not my thing at all, so I cannot say if the flow is good or so.

Dying Light
Nice idea, but the vocals are not standing out or self confident enough. Dare to sing! And loudly!

FAWMIT
Vocals are a bit flat here and there. Again, could use more confidence in singing...

Jim Tyrell
Hahaha, here be irish pirates, yarr! Sounds very good.

MC Eric B
Again, I'm not the one to say something about rap.

Melvin
Tasty keys in the intro. Nice orchestration and harmonies.

Plain songs for doves and tigers
Very sparse, very sad. But beautifull.

PQBand
Hm. This sounds somewhat awkward; the song halts now and then. And it's also too long for me, I wanted it to end at 2:00. Sorry, but this is not for me.

i am aware that the vocals on my FAWMit entry are pretty off key. basically, after we wrote the two separate songs, and combined them, i found that my voice was shot. i thought i was getting sick at first, but it was back to normal the next day. it may just be that i'm recording so much for FAWM that it just went out. i'm just glad whatever was screwing with my voice was only for one night, but i'd been meaning to do a song that is actually two separate songs in different ears for years now. it's a shame because we were very rushed in the writing and the vocals are not up to my usual all-right-ness. thanks for listening though. we appreciate it.

MC Eric B wrote:fretnoize - I totally agree with your comments. No, I was not trying to be goofy/nerdy but my attempts at serious songs usually come off that way. I am a horrible singer, so that is one problem of course.

========================

fretnoize wrote:MC Eric B
I dig the backing track. The pre-choruses have promise too. I'm not really feeling the verse, well really, your inflections at "sacred psalm" just have a really nerdy vibe to them. Maybe that's what you're going for, but itjust seems like the backing track is too good to turn it into a goofy song, in my opinion. Backing track reminds me a little of NIN's Closer. I think the song could be pretty good though if it felt more serious. I'm sorry if you really were serious and this seems harsh, just trying to offer advice. Thanks for posting the lyrics..

====================================

Englisheddiemusic wrote:
My amasing excuse why my song was so bad : I don't have one. Yeeah, im not really a singer, so me doing vocals is difficult, and my voice is quiet so thats why the vocals might sound muffled at times.
...
I was dying light btw

I completely understand, guys. I'm pretty self-conscious about singing as well, and I don't think there's any easy way to get over it. But I also feel it WILL effect your vocal performance... The best thing I've found that helps me is being comfortable. That usually means not having to worry about whether or not someone can hear you sounding like an idiot as you work out your vocal part. When I lived in an apartment in Santa Monica, I used to rent a rehearsal room in the valley on sunday mornings if I wanted to record (it was cheapest then AND bands usually don't practice on sunday mornings, so no accidental tracking of the band next door). I told people it was so I wouldn't bug the people in my apartment building, but truthfully I didn't care about annoying them, but I was self-conscious enough to not want them to hear me being stupid. Luckily now I'm in a living situation where I'm alone often enough to not have to worry about that stuff, but I still won't try to record vocals if others are around. When you're alone you won't worry about experimenting, trying crazy things, or just making dumb sounds into the microphone. But doing these things helps is some weird way.

Eddie, you said "my voice is quiet so thats why the vocals might sound muffled at times". First I don't buy that you have a quiet voice since everyone is capable of yelling But in all seriousness this song really has a lot of energy, and it sounds like it really wants that energy reflected in the vocals. You might be singing the notes you'd like, but you have to have a convincing performance too. Try belting it out. Really projecting into the microphone (hope you have a pop filter). It might be disastrous at first, but keep at it. (If you're hurting or losing your voice, you're probably doing it wrong or too hard, so stop. If this is the case find real advice from a vocalist to read and not me).

Another thing since I'm not a vocalist, I know it's going to take some work to get something I'm satisfied with. Be prepared to do lots of takes (if you're not doing it already). I probably did each line in this week's song maybe 10 times each at least.

If you have trouble with singing on pitch or in key, and such, maybe look into some type of ear training system. I'm not sure what to recommend, but you'd want something that includes sight singing, interval and chord recognition/singing. Practice that stuff for a while. do re mi!

Poor June wrote:

fretnoize wrote:Reviews (in random song fight order):

DoubleBack
Your vocals are kinda burried in the mix here... Wow, I feel like an hypocrite asshole because I'm never happy with my vocal work and so far I'm just ripping on others' vocals. I get that you're kind of trying to do that voice through a telephone effect (right?) but you could still pull up the vocals a bit. Also when you have the two parts over each other it gets a little confusing. Maybe have fairly normal production on the vocals but use the telephone idea for those additional parts? Just a suggestion.

it's just a mic not pre-amped, singing bout as loud, as close to the mic as i can...
if i raised it much higher... it would clip... i actually lowered the music some... and it really didn't help too much
the vocal effect... is caused because i had to double the vocals really to make them stand out of the music a little better...
but you know that is really a losing battle period really

anyhow... glad that besides that it has promise \m/

I hope you can get a pre-amp then. I bought a cheap behringer one myself. It has a high pass filter on it, which will cut out some of the really low frequencies that are usually found in plosives and stuff. I find that leaves you more room to turn up the signal into your recorder. The mic I used on this track has it's own high pass filter so I didn't use the behringer one, but the principle is the same, and probably has very similar results.

A couple people asked, so...
About my drums:
I'm using BFD with the XFL expansion.
The idea behind the software is that you can mix it like real drums. So I looked up how to mix drums and found this page (it was the first link): http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req0301/feature.html I didn't have much time so I pretty much followed it spot on and was happy with the results.

I actually would have liked to put more time into the dynamics of the drum performance, since I've witnessed better results from it in the past. Also you can get pretty fancy with the hi-hat, but I didn't have time. The software gives you tip and shank options each with closed, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, Opened playing position. You can assign a controller represent the hi-hat position as well and it will appropriately play the correct corresponding position.

I'm pretty happy with the software. It had Tommy Lee's stamp of approval on the box, so really how could I have gone wrong in my selection?

Fretnoize - I have never had any real vocal training, but about 6 months ago somebody bought me this "learn to sing" software:
http://www.amazon.com/Carry-A-Tune-Tech ... B0006NAB8W

and I was happy with it. For $40 I think it is a good deal. Basically, you sing to one of the songs in their library and the software recognizes how on/off pitch you are in realtime and helps you correct it. It of course offers more than just that, but for $40 I thought that part was pretty amazing.

- Eric

fretnoize wrote: I completely understand, guys. I'm pretty self-conscious about singing as well, and I don't think there's any easy way to get over it. But I also feel it WILL effect your vocal performance... The best thing I've found that helps me is being comfortable. That usually means not having to worry about whether or not someone can hear you sounding like an idiot as you work out your vocal part. When I lived in an apartment in Santa Monica, I used to rent a rehearsal room in the valley on sunday mornings if I wanted to record (it was cheapest then AND bands usually don't practice on sunday mornings, so no accidental tracking of the band next door). I told people it was so I wouldn't bug the people in my apartment building, but truthfully I didn't care about annoying them, but I was self-conscious enough to not want them to hear me being stupid. Luckily now I'm in a living situation where I'm alone often enough to not have to worry about that stuff, but I still won't try to record vocals if others are around. When you're alone you won't worry about experimenting, trying crazy things, or just making dumb sounds into the microphone. But doing these things helps is some weird way.

Eddie, you said "my voice is quiet so thats why the vocals might sound muffled at times". First I don't buy that you have a quiet voice since everyone is capable of yelling But in all seriousness this song really has a lot of energy, and it sounds like it really wants that energy reflected in the vocals. You might be singing the notes you'd like, but you have to have a convincing performance too. Try belting it out. Really projecting into the microphone (hope you have a pop filter). It might be disastrous at first, but keep at it. (If you're hurting or losing your voice, you're probably doing it wrong or too hard, so stop. If this is the case find real advice from a vocalist to read and not me).

Another thing since I'm not a vocalist, I know it's going to take some work to get something I'm satisfied with. Be prepared to do lots of takes (if you're not doing it already). I probably did each line in this week's song maybe 10 times each at least.

If you have trouble with singing on pitch or in key, and such, maybe look into some type of ear training system. I'm not sure what to recommend, but you'd want something that includes sight singing, interval and chord recognition/singing. Practice that stuff for a while. do re mi!

This is great advice, and part of the reason i don't sing loudly is that i dont want to sound like a twat xD. Unfortunately I couldnt afford a place to record vocals so I just have to try and do it when no one is about...

I agree, I can't record my vocals when anybody else is in the house.