The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Hi Everyone,

I have been slowly making the transition from hardware-based recording to computer-based recording and I'm ready to make an investment (well, I use the word loosely with any computer-related item) in a really good interface and/or mixing console. There are just so many choices, I don't know what to do. Price is not really an obstacle, but if I pay an extra $1000-1500, I want to get something significant for the difference. Here are my basic requirements:

• I have an Intel-based Mac (2.33GHz, 2GB SDRAM, Leopard). I am not committed to a specific software package, but I own GarageBand and Digital Performer 5.
• I am assuming that Firewire is always the way to go, but feel free to tell me otherwise.
• I want to be able to record my entire band at once, including several drum mics. So I'm looking for at least 8 simultaneous Ins.
• I'd like to have ADAT lightpipe so I can archive and/or remix older recordings I've done on ADATs.
• I really like the idea of a mixing console, especially those with automated faders, but I'm open to being told that it's a waste of money. I don't need a mixer that is both analog and digital, but if the right one came along, I would just sell the Mackie 16-channel mixer I use for live gigs.

I'm looking for informed advice, not just a link that says "you should get one of these!" I've already looked at everything that's out there and I've read a bunch of reviews. What I really need is information from people who have experience using this equipment.

Thanks in advance for your help!

The only thing I can back up is my Pre Sonus Fire Box interface. It's firewire, has a 45V mic amp and I can record 4 simultaneous ins. I always hear people talking about latency and other issues with their interface, but I've never had these problems. I pretty much just plugged it in and it does everything I needed it to. The only problem I ever had with it is when my computer crashed once, I lost the drivers. But reloaded them and got right back on line. I believe Mark (sven) just bought an 8 or 12 ins Pre Sonus fire Pod.

As far as a physical mixer for studio work, I still don't understand the need when you have a 48 channel mixer with Cubase or Pro Tools. I've used a Fostex mixing board for years and I don't think I'll ever go back.

Hey Frankie,

The new Mark of the Unicorn 828mk3 is almost available. I've got the mk2 and love it. The problem you might have is that it only has two onboard preamps. You can use your current mixer for the other 8 though. It meets all of your requirements, and combined with Cubase 4 will give you everything you need or want and more. I would also factor in a used UAD-1 for plug ins. That card rules.

Your cost:
MOTU 828Mk3 - $750
Cubase 4 (educational discount) - $400
Used UAD-1 card - $300

Total = $1450

I use this stuff, so let me know if you have questions.

Be well,
Ken

I have an M-Audio Firewire1814 and it's been rock solid. Eight ins (but only two of them have mic/inst preamps), four balanced outs, plus ADAT, MIDI and SPDIF, and Mac drivers aplenty.

This is all very helpful. Keep it coming!

If you've got the money spare, I'd say moving faders are SO worth the money. I guess it all depends on how you work tho' - for me, writing and production go hand in hand, so the ability to just tweak something without getting my head out of whatever space it's already in is worth so much. If you're the kind of person who does all their mixing at the end, in one session, then you might not get as much out of them.

Whatever you do, try to get something that integrates well with your DAW of choice. With my set-up, whenever I load a song Cubase automatically re-configures my mixer to be in exactly the same state it was in when I saved the song (not just the control surface side of it, but everything from the effects units to the audio in levels etc.). This saves the frustration of having used your mixer for something else in the meantime and no longer being able to get the same sound you got last time you worked on the song (which had happened to me a number of times before).

Make sure whatever you buy can deliver low enough latency. I've bought an alesis interface in the past 'cos it had sp/dif IO and was fairly cheap, but it doesn't get used because I just couldn't get acceptable latency out of it.

I know you asked for general tips rather than specific product recommendations, so I've focused on that, but while I'm here and for whatever it's worth, I am in love with my Yamaha 01x.

Whenever the subject of interfaces comes up around here, I jump in and shout 'Look at my sig.... s/c cards are the gretaest thing in the world ever'

But no one ever listens to me....

so this time, I think i'll just stay silent

Yeah, you've got a Mac, and I saw the demo of the new Euphonix control surfaces at NAMM. They look really really good.

Ken

obscurity wrote: Whatever you do, try to get something that integrates well with your DAW of choice. With my set-up, whenever I load a song Cubase automatically re-configures my mixer to be in exactly the same state it was in when I saved the song (not just the control surface side of it, but everything from the effects units to the audio in levels etc.). This saves the frustration of having used your mixer for something else in the meantime and no longer being able to get the same sound you got last time you worked on the song (which had happened to me a number of times before).

Yeah, I definitely like this concept. It's one of the main reasons I decided to ditch hardware mixing (imagine all the time I spent writing down mixer settings).

obscurity wrote: I know you asked for general tips rather than specific product recommendations, so I've focused on that, but while I'm here and for whatever it's worth, I am in love with my Yamaha 01x.

I don't mind specific product recommendations if they are products you are familiar with and/or use. I just don't want a link to a product on Musician's Friend that you've heard about but haven't actually seen or used. So yeah, thanks!

Mackie makes some firewire mixers that do a really great job. I tried one for a weekend, and was super impressed, but can't justify the $ just now.

http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1620/index.html

I, like BLT, am a huge PreSonus Firebox slut: firewire, good-enough-for-me pre'[size=0]Yeah, I know, don't harass me[/size]s, decent midi. I'm sure the Firepod (8 ins, 10 outs) will do the trick for you, and they can be had quite cheaply I believe... actually, googling for it suggests it has been replaced by the PreSonus FireStudio, which seems to be the same thing but with ADAT support. As for automated faders, I use the Behringer BCF-2000 to simulate a mixing console, but I could take it or leave it, as it hasn't really improved my workflow. I have, however, wasted plenty of time drawing channel automation and watching my faders do The Wave.

Adam! wrote:As for automated faders, I use the Behringer BCF-2000 to simulate a mixing console, but I could take it or leave it, as it hasn't really improved my workflow.

Which reminds me of an important point - if you do go for automated faders, make sure you get one that has an LCD scribble-strip so you can tell at a glance what each control is assigned to.

Thanks again everybody for your help. I'm still deciding but your input is definitely shaping my decision.

I just wanted to thank you all again for your input. I ended up buying a PreSonus FireStudio with 26ins/26outs (really, just 8, but with 2 ADAT lightpipes) and Apple's Logic Studio. I also picked up a Line 6 GearBox Gold, but haven't gotten around to trying it out. In the end, I spent only about $1250, so if you think of something else I should get, let me know. I'm working my way (slowly) through the Logic tutorials and hope to have the program under my fingers by the end of Nur Ein 3.

Again, thanks so much to everyone who gave me advice.

Welcome to this decade!

(it's not often I get to say that, so I'm making the most of it )

Just got my first taste of automated faders. Well, one fader actually. I bought the PreSonus Faderport for just over $100 and it gives me one fader and a bunch of other transport controls without using my computer keyboard. I haven't really done anything with it except watch the fader go up and down while listening back to something I already mixed, but the long-term possibilities look good. Thanks again to all who helped me with my transition.

I have the Faderport as well, and really enjoy using the transport controls. I rarely touch the fader or any of the other buttons, but play, stop and undo get used all the time!

ken wrote:I have the Faderport as well, and really enjoy using the transport controls. I rarely touch the fader or any of the other buttons, but play, stop and undo get used all the time!

Well, if I can get my recordings to sound half as good as yours, I'll be on my way to....well, nowhere I guess, but my recordings will sound better!

Hey, the Presonus FP10 (Firepod) is on sale over at MF for $299! That's pretty much what they've been going for used on Ebay lately....
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=242036